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Dairy
Known Hero
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posted January 03, 2020 03:49 PM |
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Revolut1oN said:
Winston said:
Dairy said:
Winston said:
Is it very easy to modify HotA to undo all of the nerfs and removal of vanilla content? The new unique additions by HotA look nice but I don't care for making unplayable a dozen artifacts, heroes, and skills.
Hiw is it a holocaust if Necro is still the strongest town 
You know, if it is a change I aprove I praise it, if it is my biased personal Single player mode opition I deny it.
Something in those lines. They want change, but dont want to adapt.
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Jluil
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 03, 2020 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Jluil at 16:19, 03 Jan 2020.
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Great job!
I really like the changes and the direction the game is going.
However I think that the interference skill is not really making things better as it only nerfes spells like implosion or summon elementals. However for other spells like berserk, mass slow/haste/curse/bless it is useless. And the latter mentioned spells are mostly casted and are contributing to make might heroes more favorable (as a 3/3 - power/knowledge barbarian with exp magic is as capable of casting them as 20/10 warlock).
Also it would make sense to buff sorcery now.
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ratamahatta
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 03, 2020 04:39 PM |
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eXalted said:
robizeratul said:
from hundreds of people who downloaded, nobody have a mirror? it takes a minute to upload it somewhere...someone please share!
Here is a mirror:
https://www119.zippyshare.com/v/CJOiaIRF/file.html
finally some1, thank you!
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Czarlson
Hired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 10:10 AM |
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Edited by Czarlson at 10:12, 04 Jan 2020.
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According to the df2 forum, a high probability line-up for Factory looks like below.
1.Halflings
2.Engineer / Flamethrower
3.Armadillo
4.Coatle
5.Centipede
6.Gunslinger, Bounty Hunter
7.Humanoid Mech
---------------------------------------------------------------
1.Do you think that this is correct line-up ?
2.Is there only one mechanical unit (mech on 7th level)?
3.Do you have any information about 3th level unit (how is this supposed to look like - will it be mechanical unit or not)? – I'm curious because the Armadillo is quite a small and harmless animal … compared with another 3th level units like e.g Griffin or Hell Hound it seems not to be dangerous.
4.Don't you think that line-up of Factory is very similar to the Stronghold?
-Behemoth vs Mech (strong, walking units on 7th level)
-Cyclops vs Bounty Hunters (shooters on 6th level)
-two shooters (one very high level + one low)
-only 1 flying unit Thunderbird vs Coatle (almost the same level)
-the same terrain penalty
5.What do you think about this list ?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 11:33 AM |
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Czarlson said:
According to the df2 forum, a high probability line-up for Factory looks like below.
1.Halflings
2.Engineer / Flamethrower
3.Armadillo
4.Coatle
5.Centipede
6.Gunslinger, Bounty Hunter
7.Humanoid Mech
---------------------------------------------------------------
1.Do you think that this is correct line-up ?
2.Is there only one mechanical unit (mech on 7th level)?
3.Do you have any information about 3th level unit (how is this supposed to look like - will it be mechanical unit or not)? – I'm curious because the Armadillo is quite a small and harmless animal … compared with another 3th level units like e.g Griffin or Hell Hound it seems not to be dangerous.
4.Don't you think that line-up of Factory is very similar to the Stronghold?
-Behemoth vs Mech (strong, walking units on 7th level)
-Cyclops vs Bounty Hunters (shooters on 6th level)
-two shooters (one very high level + one low)
-only 1 flying unit Thunderbird vs Coatle (almost the same level)
-the same terrain penalty
5.What do you think about this list ?
1. Well, atleast there are elements of truth there. Read on.
2) I'm too lazy to share a pic, but go check the Wasteland soundtrack on Youtube. There we can clearly see 2 new units not released before - the robot guy on the left guarding Boots of Speed, and the Centipede on the right guarding the Gold mine. Also, in the Wasteland stroll, we can see the Centipede's upgrade when the hero goes to the portal at 3:04.
So the Centipede at least as a concept is true and that's definetly a mech unit, since it clearly has a light on it's head. And since the robot is kinda ball-shaped, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was indeed called Armadillo. And if the tier 7 is a mech as well, that's 3 in total.
3) Yeah, the Coatl is likely a flying unit. But it still seems that the tier 7 unit is missing, it could very well be flying unit.
Also, remember that the Centipede has a light on it's head. Why have a light, if it's not desinged to work underground - therefore meaning that it may have some sort of Dig ability, which would remind or be an exact copy of flying, just like teleporting is.
4) Well, first of all, if neither one of the two shown creatures are tier 7, we still don't know how it looks and works, so at this point it makes no sense to compare it to Behemoth. Also, comparing the unit types makes not much sense either imo, by this logic Inferno and Fortress would be very similiar towns, since they both have only one archer as a tier 2 creature, and both have only 2 flying units, with one being tier 6 in both towns.
When Factory is finished, there will be 11 towns total, so they will for sure have something in common, but they can all still have unique playstyle.
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Jaynetics
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2020 11:54 AM |
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Re 3 (Armadillo): supersized Armadillos were a tough opponent early on in MM5 Darkside of Xeen, somewhat reminiscent of an Ankylosaurus.
I have no idea about the line up, but I'd love to see this memorable monster return.
PS: thanks to HotA team for the amazing new stuff, again.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 12:19 PM |
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So we finally get Slow nerfed - by 1 point, huh. Not the change most people had in mind.
I don't see how logs nerf makes any sense. It will be a must pick anyway, we'll just see heroes crawling around slower which is not fun at all (and it indirectly buffs town portal and dimension door, haha). And obviously some HotA campaign scores are now impossible to reach due to heroes moving slower  Also, as mentioned before - indirect Castle buff.
Diplo overnerfed. It would be better to just disable it like Resistance.
I really don't care about mysticism so meh.
Intelligence nerf - ouch, my campaign lads with their infinite mana 
Not too sure about any of those, honestly.
Intelligence never was a problem; it was a good skill, but only broken in campaigns. Now it's balanced in campaigns and underwhelming for regular maps.
Diplo was overnerfed, you will not want to get it. Getting free joiners was the core of this skill; now you have to pay and only get half which means you can (sometimes) recruit some additional units (if RNG gives you the ones you want) for twice the price.
Slow - idk, I don't think the -1 really matters that much, it's the MASS nature of a level 1 spells that really matters. Haste should see a nerf too.
Logs - feels pointless in general, slows the game down, indirectly buffs TP/DD.
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 12:25 PM |
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Czarlson said:
According to the df2 forum, a high probability line-up for Factory looks like below.
1.Halflings
2.Engineer / Flamethrower
3.Armadillo
4.Coatle
5.Centipede
6.Gunslinger, Bounty Hunter
7.Humanoid Mech
---------------------------------------------------------------
1.Do you think that this is correct line-up ?
2.Is there only one mechanical unit (mech on 7th level)?
3.Do you have any information about 3th level unit (how is this supposed to look like - will it be mechanical unit or not)? – I'm curious because the Armadillo is quite a small and harmless animal … compared with another 3th level units like e.g Griffin or Hell Hound it seems not to be dangerous.
4.Don't you think that line-up of Factory is very similar to the Stronghold?
-Behemoth vs Mech (strong, walking units on 7th level)
-Cyclops vs Bounty Hunters (shooters on 6th level)
-two shooters (one very high level + one low)
-only 1 flying unit Thunderbird vs Coatle (almost the same level)
-the same terrain penalty
5.What do you think about this list ?
You can see the Armadillo at the bottom of this page:
https://goodgame.ru/news/29204/
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 12:31 PM |
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Also, getting a witch hut with basic estates is like finding two unguarded gold mines now...
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Revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 12:54 PM |
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Doomforge said:
So we finally get Slow nerfed - by 1 point, huh. Not the change most people had in mind.
I don't see how logs nerf makes any sense. It will be a must pick anyway, we'll just see heroes crawling around slower which is not fun at all (and it indirectly buffs town portal and dimension door, haha). And obviously some HotA campaign scores are now impossible to reach due to heroes moving slower Also, as mentioned before - indirect Castle buff.
Diplo overnerfed. It would be better to just disable it like Resistance.
I really don't care about mysticism so meh.
Intelligence nerf - ouch, my campaign lads with their infinite mana
Not too sure about any of those, honestly.
Intelligence never was a problem; it was a good skill, but only broken in campaigns. Now it's balanced in campaigns and underwhelming for regular maps.
Diplo was overnerfed, you will not want to get it. Getting free joiners was the core of this skill; now you have to pay and only get half which means you can (sometimes) recruit some additional units (if RNG gives you the ones you want) for twice the price.
Slow - idk, I don't think the -1 really matters that much, it's the MASS nature of a level 1 spells that really matters. Haste should see a nerf too.
Logs - feels pointless in general, slows the game down, indirectly buffs TP/DD.
Well logs is a welcome change since it indirectly nerfs completely broken heroes like Kyrre and also narrows the gap between players if one main is able to get it while the other doesnt.
Also how intelligence was never a problem? It was almost always first pick for pro players right after Earth and Log. So much that high level elleshar or ayden were basocally unstoppable meat grinding machines on all templates, no other hero could come close in final battle.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 01:04 PM |
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On Jeebus. I know that JC = HOMM for many people, but cmon. 
Intelli specs are broken on campaigns and JC, not for your plain old regular game.
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bloodsucker 
Legendary Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 01:31 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Diplo was overnerfed, you will not want to get it. Getting free joiners was the core of this skill; now you have to pay and only get half which means you can (sometimes) recruit some additional units (if RNG gives you the ones you want) for twice the price.
Ah! It had to be you...  Finally someone else says something about Diplomacy.
As a matter of fact, I think Diplomacy would still be viable if you got the full stack or paid half for half of it. It's the double price that kills it and is much more RNG based then before. I mean, to pay twice the price for giants after upgrading the Cloud Castle may be ok, to pay it for Angels, Firebirds or Behemoths probably won't. Seams to me much better to use the money to develop towns and simply hire the troops there.
Diplomacy drooped from an instant must pick whenever rules allow you to use it to something you may develop some secondary hero with, in case you can find a very useful stack hanging around when it happens you have a lot money to spend. I will never get Azure or Crystal Dragons from the map with this set-up.
____________
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 01:36 PM |
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I agree. I think there's just too many nerfs (in fact there are THREE separate nerfs!) at once. Two of them would suffice.
What I particularly dislike is the "twice the price" nerf. I think this is what makes this skill fairly useless; you get joiners, yes, but for some sick amount of cash. Unless you're swimming in gold, you will not benefit from this skill at all... Because at that point, getting a full population may be a better idea.
And on most maps, players DON'T swim in gold at all. Making this skill have a niche only in particular cases (very rich map with plenty of neutrals so you can leave the ones you want to get for later and eventually buy them when the time is right - which is a rare scenario in the first place).
As for Intelligence:
If you don't play templates that shove Books of earth or spellbinder hats in your throat, you may end up getting crappy spells like Magic Mirror and Inferno, and at that point, even twice the mana won't really mean much, and half the mana is almost not worth it entirely, because you're better off going for a might hero and casting the ever reliable and cheap mass slow/haste.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 01:38 PM |
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Doomforge said:
So we finally get Slow nerfed - by 1 point, huh. Not the change most people had in mind.
I don't see how logs nerf makes any sense. It will be a must pick anyway, we'll just see heroes crawling around slower which is not fun at all (and it indirectly buffs town portal and dimension door, haha). And obviously some HotA campaign scores are now impossible to reach due to heroes moving slower Also, as mentioned before - indirect Castle buff.
Diplo overnerfed. It would be better to just disable it like Resistance.
I really don't care about mysticism so meh.
Intelligence nerf - ouch, my campaign lads with their infinite mana
Not too sure about any of those, honestly.
Intelligence never was a problem; it was a good skill, but only broken in campaigns. Now it's balanced in campaigns and underwhelming for regular maps.
Diplo was overnerfed, you will not want to get it. Getting free joiners was the core of this skill; now you have to pay and only get half which means you can (sometimes) recruit some additional units (if RNG gives you the ones you want) for twice the price.
Slow - idk, I don't think the -1 really matters that much, it's the MASS nature of a level 1 spells that really matters. Haste should see a nerf too.
Logs - feels pointless in general, slows the game down, indirectly buffs TP/DD.
I actually think the Slow nerf is almost game changing thing. To the tell truth, I'm surprised that the community is not rioting about the change. The battlefields are so small that creatures affected by Slow will sure do a lot more than they did before - get ready to take more losses against the map for example. The games most oldest way of dealing with slow(ish) guards by first mass slowing them, and letting your shooters rain arrows on them is suddenly way weaker than it was few a days ago.
I first also thought that the Diplo lost so much, but then I realized that they actually allow joiners now in tournament rules. I think it's a fair change overall, that breaks the OPness of diplomacy, while still allowing it to have it's core mechanic, which to me is about getting creatures, not getting free creatures. If you were playing without Tournament loses, this is somewhat a letdown, but I think overall this will enrich the PVP gamaplay.
Mysticism sure is better, but I think it's still not worth picking. I've tried it, and it helps in earl-mid game, but in the late game you wish you would not have it. You can always use town portal in the end of the turn, and regain your mana in town. Also, the Wizard's well is still very easy to assemble, so there's no a real reason to have Mysticism.
I'm fine with Logistics change, I think there are now more reasons why you would want to pass it. Makes building hero more interresiting, as you're not that forced to pick it. You're still making good points with TP and DD.
Intelligence nerf was a surprise, it's still worth picking thou. I don't yet know how I feel about this change, it's too early to say.
Estates was also something I did not expect, I would like to hear a reason why the Expert value was doubled. I don't say it was wrong to boost it, but making it give to 1000 g each day can easily snowball out of control. I think there should be reason to pick it for your main hero as well, but the problem here seems to the high rolliness - especially if you learn it early from the witch hut. Combine that with nearby Learning stones, and you're getting way more gold than you used to.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 01:43 PM |
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The ultimate abuse of 1.6.0 (single player only, but w/e):
1. pick a map with a witch hut
2. reroll till it offers estates
3. recruit 8 heroes and teach them estates
4. go to the obelisk/gazebo and pray for adv. estates
5. ???
6. profit aka free capitol
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10
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2020 01:49 PM |
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Czarlson said:
3.Do you have any information about 3th level unit (how is this supposed to look like - will it be mechanical unit or not)? – I'm curious because the Armadillo is quite a small and harmless animal … compared with another 3th level units like e.g Griffin or Hell Hound it seems not to be dangerous.
They will probably look something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwalj8xE-Jw
Taken from interview for goodgame.ru:
https://goodgame.ru/news/29204/
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 02:16 PM |
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Hourglass said:
I actually think the Slow nerf is almost game changing thing. To the tell truth, I'm surprised that the community is not rioting about the change. The battlefields are so small that creatures affected by Slow will sure do a lot more than they did before - get ready to take more losses against the map for example. The games most oldest way of dealing with slow(ish) guards by first mass slowing them, and letting your shooters rain arrows on them is suddenly way weaker than it was few a days ago.
I'm finishing a map with the new version and I also feel the nerf quite good. All creature banks are now way harder to take without losses.
Hourglass said:
I first also thought that the Diplo lost so much, but then I realized that they actually allow joiners now in tournament rules.
That I would have bet on. Once again, they have "enrich the PVP gameplay" at the expenses of everything else.
Hourglass said:
Estates was also something I did not expect
Neither do I but I think it was quite a good idea. When the original developers made it they didn't weigh enough the importance of occupying one of only eight secondary skill slots (same goes for Learning and Mysticism).
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 04, 2020 03:24 PM |
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Hourglass said:
I actually think the Slow nerf is almost game changing thing. To the tell truth, I'm surprised that the community is not rioting about the change.
Well it's not really justified to riot about something that is free... If a player doesn't like the changes no one is forcing him to play it. If he really wants to, he can try to mod the mod. Without doubt the crew is aware balance changes doesn't please everyone, but they do this on their free time too.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 04, 2020 03:51 PM |
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And so did the mapmakers, which now probably see their hard tested maps become unplayable. Thanks god Bersy isn't butchering the mechanics with each Era version, I would be very mad after the years I put in.
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Rakso
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 04, 2020 04:27 PM |
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Salamandre said:
And so did the mapmakers, which now probably see their hard tested maps become unplayable. Thanks god Bersy isn't butchering the mechanics with each Era version, I would be very mad after the years I put in.
Actually no, it's even going to the better, because stuff was only added, or even restored(old resistance is back). I'm making a map on which I'm working for 1,5 - 2 years now on HotA(and I'm also using Unleashed+own edits,brief modding - but who cares, just saying to point out I'm not casual), and for the whole mod updates times of being no thing got screwed to be high-impactful on the mapmaking side, except maybe only for the earlier mentioned resistance mechanic, which got restored now anyways, and that's honestly certainly due to mapmakers yelling, in between of which I was involved in doing so too.
With all the changes HotA Crew does for mapmaking, the time it takes to get in handy with these is a matter of 1-2 days of quick map editing, mostly outer-layer stuff, even less for anyone who isn't involved into hardcore "storyteller" type of mapmaking.
Maybe you're unaware of actual real opinions, because perhaps you only hear other mapmakers complain - the ones who don't actually make maps for HotA, but view the whole thing from afar sitting with a cup of tea over their easy-going ERA's or Unleashed's, and just act as viewers without opinions based on experienced facts in dealing with the mod features themselves.
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