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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 429 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 90 180 270 360 ... 425 426 427 428 429 · «PREV / NEXT»
gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 11:35 AM

I'm not very fond of the idea of getting many more towns. Kinda blurs what the towns are all about. I like distinct factions. 11 towns is a lot already.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 30, 2020 11:43 AM

HotA can't really bring much more content without adding towns and without changing already finished towns and such.

If they won't really add any more towns after this update, I'd expect them to balance and bring some more content in the course of like a year, and then "abandon" the project and move onto their own game.
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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 12:45 PM

To be honest I'd like to see a 2-3 new towns in order to include the whole old M&M world. We're still missing MM8 Jadame culture, Dragonsand desert culture and Vori.

They're all important: MM8 Jadame because Factory is in Jadame, Dragonsand because the Desert terrain has no town and Vori because it's misrepresented in "The Sword of Frost".

Dragonsand could have elements from Arabian, Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Persian and Indian myths while Vori from Norse, Baltic, Russian, Finnish and Siberian myths. Certain Indian mythical creatures can also fit in Jadame.

And I think the graphics of Cuoatls have some problems, like being too similar to Dragons/Phoenixes in posture (as we already have many Lv.7 creatures in that posture), I think they should be more like Tides of War ones but more feathered and beaked and I also think that rainbow graphics are too beautiful to be for non-upgraded only. I think non upgraded should be mainly crimson and upgraded should be rainbow colored. Called "Cuoatl" and "Rainbow Cuoatl".

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planetavril
planetavril


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 01:18 PM
Edited by planetavril at 13:21, 30 Jun 2020.

I like other cities after factory,but better if they develop their game,adding more cities to their game, then "close" HotA with the Factory

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 02:02 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 14:05, 30 Jun 2020.

FirePaladin said:
HotA can't really bring much more content without adding towns and without changing already finished towns and such.

If they won't really add any more towns after this update, I'd expect them to balance and bring some more content in the course of like a year, and then "abandon" the project and move onto their own game.


Well it depends what you define as "new content". More neutral units would be nice aswell, same goes for more spells and artifacts, also some "tier 3" upgrades are possible aswell. We don't necessarely need a new town for it.

A sample:
Since Inferno is all about demon hoarding -> A upgrade for Demons (Third tier) with some more hitpoints and maybe some more def would be a great change for Inferno but still requires the need units to sarcifice and the whole mechanic about it... So if you get demons on tier 1 and upgrade them on 3 it means a big hitpoint win and compensates for other units like imps. Just to mention...

As you mentioned a new game. Since the game mechanics of HoMM3 are like the corset, the best solution would be anyway to create something new in the first place. Unity for example is quite easy to use and code something with it... Imho HoMM3 has a lot of problems anyway... Actual limitations of HoMM3: no fog of war, limited to 8 players, split in M&M heroes, primary and sec stats, straight forward gamestyle with only a few tactical components [compared to other games]

Lord_Immortal said:
To be honest I'd like to see a 2-3 new towns in order to include the whole old M&M world. We're still missing MM8 Jadame culture, Dragonsand desert culture and Vori.


The only town thats missing is a desert town... In other parts of HoMM the desert town is like "Tower" anyway. So I personally don't know what should be added here to fit in the lore, gameplay and style.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 30, 2020 02:35 PM

I agree with all your points, with an exception: I think Lord_Immortal is right, the MM8 Jadame and Vori are both important cultures/factions in this world, and many fans who know of them want to see those in the game.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 02:49 PM

M&M 8 was released after HoMM3 so this is stuff which wasn't neccessarily accounted for.
Anyways, I prefer the arrangement of towns somewhat concise AS opposed to something la "Bright Elves", "Dark Elves", "Blue Dwarves", " Medium-sized Humanoid Dragon-Faun Golem chimeras".

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 04:04 PM

gatecrasher said:
M&M 8 was released after HoMM3 so this is stuff which wasn't neccessarily accounted for.
Anyways, I prefer the arrangement of towns somewhat concise AS opposed to something la "Bright Elves", "Dark Elves", "Blue Dwarves", " Medium-sized Humanoid Dragon-Faun Golem chimeras".


My suggestions are exactly on this style.

The fact that I'm proposing Vori Elf and Dark Elf town is not "something la Bright Elves, Dark Elves, Blue Dwarves"...

Vori Elf town should account for the snow and ice theme and there should be one or max 2 units which are "Snow Elves". There are many mythical creatures related to snow, ice and cold, and the Tower doesn't really respond to that. Towers are more like towns in "tall, snowy mountains" than in cold, frozen polar wastelands. Creatures can be drawn from Norse, Russian, Baltic, Finnish, Siberian and maybe North American myths. An "extra", remade Sword of Frost campaign with this Town would be awesome. Vori Elves could only have a Level-4 equivalent of Sharpshooters.

Jadame town is supposed to be a town of merchants, smugglers and bandits. Trade should have an important place in its gameplay. The marketplace, resource silo and possibly one extra unique building should be the pillars of this town's gameplay. It should be a cool combination with Factory which is an "industrial town" that requires a lot of resources. Neutral creatures Rogues and Trolls are supposed to be part of this town. Again Dark Elves are one unit only and mostly heroes (but not all heroes).

P4R4D0X0N said:

The only town thats missing is a desert town... In other parts of HoMM the desert town is like "Tower" anyway. So I personally don't know what should be added here to fit in the lore, gameplay and style.


True, what I'm saying is that Heroes of Might and Magic is missing a lot of creatures from Middle Eastern, African and South Asian country mythologies. A lot. Considering that we already have the Nomad as a unit and MAYBE the Enchanter, a desert town with 5-6 slots to include these myths is almost an universe of its own. The team could expand the Desert and make it interesting just like they made the Sea.

P4R4D0X0N said:
Actual limitations of HoMM3: no fog of war, limited to 8 players, split in M&M heroes, primary and sec stats, straight forward gamestyle with only a few tactical components


To be honest except for the 8 player thing the others are not limitations but mechanics. It's how Heroes III is suppposed to be played. It's a mix of Grand Strategy and Turn-Based Tactics. I like all of them. And 8 player is "a limitation" only with the new map sizes HotA implemented. It was a perfect number back in RoE/AB/SoD.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 30, 2020 04:09 PM

Wow, those concepts are actually really good!
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 30, 2020 10:01 PM
Edited by blob2 at 22:02, 30 Jun 2020.

On Couatls:

Guys this is incredible. Couatls are just the type of units I like, never was that big of a fan of Dreadnoughts.

This concept came out of nowhere, ofc there were those couatl/serpent fly like units but suddenly they disappeared courtesy of worms. Now we know why.

Now we basically get an Armored Dragon, which is probably a bit of a play on the whole Dragon Golem unit. So win-win for me, because I was pretty sure we would get a "dragon golem" unit at some point.

The design iteslf somehow reminds me of my "beloved" Chimera concept. I'm still a bit sceptic about their origins, somehow they don't quite fit in the town other then "we captured some endemic species somewhere and tamed them". That isn't to say I don't like their description: we will learn more about them. But this "rainbow" units doesn't exactly fit the grimey and raw/badlands theme of Factory. That said however thsoe are introduced the units are so cool I don't even care at this point if they make sense

You never stop to amaze me, HotA teams concepts are spot on and they are the true successors of the franchise... the "what could have been" if not for Ubisoft.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 30, 2020 10:36 PM

Next up is the instauration of the Ashan spider-dragon-gods religion.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Winston
Winston


Adventuring Hero
posted June 30, 2020 11:37 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
As you mentioned a new game. Since the game mechanics of HoMM3 are like the corset, the best solution would be anyway to create something new in the first place. Unity for example is quite easy to use and code something with it... Imho HoMM3 has a lot of problems anyway... Actual limitations of HoMM3: no fog of war, limited to 8 players, split in M&M heroes, primary and sec stats, straight forward gamestyle with only a few tactical components [compared to other games]


People have already done this and it is called VCMI.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2020 11:40 PM

I would've loved if the Couatl had become something more "flying snake/hydra"-alike. No arms, maybe no legs, maybe 4 legs and different proportions.
Right now it is pretty much a recolour of the existing dragon design, a spectacular one admittedly.

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nitocris
nitocris

Tavern Dweller
posted July 01, 2020 05:39 AM

To the Devs:

Alot of countries are/have come out of lockdown. Once we are back in the office we will have no where near the amount of time to play the new update, not to mention backlog of work to catch up on.

The units are ready, what are we waiting on? Towns? I beg you to please just release it... things like balance can wait... artwork etc can be perfected later.

We are all dying to play the new faction with the spare time that we have now.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2020 10:55 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 10:57, 01 Jul 2020.

Winston said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
As you mentioned a new game. Since the game mechanics of HoMM3 are like the corset, the best solution would be anyway to create something new in the first place. Unity for example is quite easy to use and code something with it... Imho HoMM3 has a lot of problems anyway... Actual limitations of HoMM3: no fog of war, limited to 8 players, split in M&M heroes, primary and sec stats, straight forward gamestyle with only a few tactical components [compared to other games]


People have already done this and it is called VCMI.


Nope, I was refrering to the new game HotA staff is MAYBE doing. See here:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&PID=1510609#focus

VCMI is just a big mix of kinda anything and an illegal copy/paste of copyrighted stuff in most case. Not really my kind of game, it seems very "unpolished". Granted you can mod your stuff but most mods are just another work around anyway, like that fog of war for example, since there is no "additional layer" available to make it work properly.

Since HoMM3 is quite limited quite every aspect thats just the easiest solution anyway. Also I don't really like these "workarounds" just to keep an antique codebase. Maybe a stark example: I mod a lot games myself and if it comes down to DOS coding... these hardcode limitations are just awful... 8bit coding is a pain... and frankly thats the worst in general. Not speaking of the graphical issues on a 4k monitor while scaling up 640x480 or even lower resolutions. The HoMM3 coding has similar problems.

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted July 01, 2020 11:28 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
VCMI is just a big mix of kinda anything and an illegal copy/paste of copyrighted stuff in most case. Not really my kind of game, it seems very "unpolished". Granted you can mod your stuff but most mods are just another work around anyway, like that fog of war for example, since there is no "additional layer" available to make it work properly.

Since HoMM3 is quite limited quite every aspect thats just the easiest solution anyway. Also I don't really like these "workarounds" just to keep an antique codebase. Maybe a stark example: I mod a lot games myself and if it comes down to DOS coding... these hardcode limitations are just awful... 8bit coding is a pain... and frankly thats the worst in general. Not speaking of the graphical issues on a 4k monitor while scaling up 640x480 or even lower resolutions. The HoMM3 coding has similar problems.

This seems more like you are talking about WOG than VCMI. VCMI itself (don't confuse it with VCMI mods) is an engine replacement, a kind of project that has a very well established place and has even begun to see official use. Now, VCMI may not have gotten that far with polishing and avoiding hardcode limitations - slow development pace, apparently hampering themselves by putting a rule in of always maintaining backwards save compatibility - but a project like VCMI can certainly allow you to have a game, using the original content, but removing hardcode limitations from an antique codebase by using a new codebase.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2020 12:03 PM
Edited by gatecrasher at 13:06, 01 Jul 2020.

P4R4D0X0N said:

VCMI is just a big mix of kinda anything and an illegal copy/paste of copyrighted stuff in most case. Not really my kind of game, it seems very "unpolished".


Oh my... HoMM3 is proprietary software so there is no source code you could possibly copy/paste (if there was it was highly probably released under a FLOSS licence explicitly allowing copying).
VCMI is a reimplementation. This is difficult stuff and requires a lot of work. Much more difficult than spreading misinformation in internet forums. Hence the unpolishedness.
They lack contributors.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 01, 2020 03:24 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Nope, I was refrering to the new game HotA staff is MAYBE doing. See here:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&PID=1510609#focus


Cool. I somehow missed this.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2020 06:40 PM

Question!

Will the two different tier 7's use the same special resource, or possibly even a different one? In the case of they using two different resources, how does the resource silo work exactly?

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2020 07:46 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 19:55, 01 Jul 2020.

LordInsane said:

This seems more like you are talking about WOG than VCMI. VCMI itself (don't confuse it with VCMI mods) is an engine replacement, a kind of project that has a very well established place and has even begun to see official use. Now, VCMI may not have gotten that far with polishing and avoiding hardcode limitations - slow development pace, apparently hampering themselves by putting a rule in of always maintaining backwards save compatibility - but a project like VCMI can certainly allow you to have a game, using the original content, but removing hardcode limitations from an antique codebase by using a new codebase.


I was refrering to the available content of course. I'd like to know how you'd like to avoid hardcode issues since you need like a complete recode for most of the problems? And with that I really mean a complete recode...

gatecrasher said:

Oh my... HoMM3 is proprietary software so there is no source code you could possibly copy/paste (if there was it was highly probably released under a FLOSS licence explicitly allowing copying).
VCMI is a reimplementation. This is difficult stuff and requires a lot of work. Much more difficult than spreading misinformation in internet forums. Hence the unpolishedness.
They lack contributors.


As I said I was refrering to available content... like the fog of war stuff (workaround) and the "additional town content" (copy/paste). As for VCMI I kinda said everything in case of "workaround", it has no "in depth solutions" on long term, HotA can't provide it either... granted, thats why I also brought up the "maybe" in case of some stand alone.

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