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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 516 pages long: 1 60 120 180 240 300 360 420 480 ... 505 506 507 508 509 ... 516 · «PREV / NEXT»
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2022 08:04 AM

Oddball13579 said:
Been absent for several months. Has Factory dropped yet?

No. Creatures are ready, but there are still things that aren't. It's been more quiet after Docent past away, and I'm also talking about the Russian forums.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 23, 2022 08:19 AM

shev441 said:
Well there will alwayes be some toxic people.
THe arguments about not changing anything cause they got used to it or few custom maps will become unplayable makes me smile every time.
Game takes about 300 mb of your had drive that is likely 1tb or more. Just have few versions installed e.g:
-Classic Sod
-Hota 1.3 (before balance changes)
-Hota 1.7

And simply sometimes play older version if you want to . Nobody is taking away the game you like so much, you can still play it. And dont prevent lots of people from imroving elements of game that are broken for sure.

http://h3.heroes.net.pl/uploaded/download/Wywiad-z-Gregiem-Fultonem-2020.pdf
I have spotted interesting interview with one of Homm creators - Greg Fulton - from 2020. Its in Polish, but with google translate you can read it as well. Talks about development of H3 and his future project. In the interview he answer some questions regarding balance. Here is my loose translation:

Q: Were you aware during development of the game that some of Secondary skills like Earth Magic or Logistics so powerful and that some skills like Eagle Eye or Learning are quite useless?

A: You need to remember that Heroes 3 was designed back then as mostly single player game. If one secondary skill or spell would turn out to be to powerfull , it woulndn't be big problem since most games were played against A.I. If we would know that years later H3 would become opular online game with competitive tournaments , we would dedicate way more time to balance the game.
Back in the day we were not aware that Logistics or Earth magic are so strong. ABout Learning we used to considered to make it stronger but to be afraid that it will become necessery skill to take in every game. Thats why we went for "weaker" wersion of that skill.
Eagle eye  was taken directly from Homm2, nobody in that time thought that its useless. From perspective of time I have to admit that it could be cut of the game.

Would be interesting to ask him how they would design the skills for competitive multiplayer today. Or which things they would buff or nerf.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2022 03:10 PM

Learning should give a flat knowledge bonus +3 / +6 / +9

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2022 03:12 PM

Learning should give a flat knowledge bonus +3 / +6 / +9

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pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted July 07, 2022 02:13 AM
Edited by pizdabol at 02:20, 07 Jul 2022.

evilcherry said:
Doomforge said:
Competitive games need more time, else you can completely break the game by missing something that is not immediately obvious. [...]


As Phoenix and Nimo, I do not agree with this statement even if it seems reasonable at first sight. [...]


I've been (sporadically) following this thread for more than 10 years now and this is the most sound opinion I've read by a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong shot.

PS: First one to note the ~2 year differential gets punched in the crotch

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 07, 2022 08:35 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:40, 07 Jul 2022.

Quote:
Learning should give a flat knowledge bonus +3 / +6 / +9


1- No secondary skill is just a primary skill disguised.

2- This is just intelligence but more boring.

But anyways... I don't think anyone was going to seriously consider this.

Fortunately HotA is dead and there are other projects not lead by single-template considerations and will actually allow other people to modify the game with their code.

Mods which are anti-modding is the greatest paradox.
____________
Never changing = never improving

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 07, 2022 09:08 AM

Such an approach would compromise on quality, the end result would be yet another half-baked mod with original assets just recoloured or swapped all over the place. Same boring stuff as for example HoL or basically every H4 mod, lacking a real professional touch.

Coherency and integrity are crucial here. If the basis of your mod and high quality assets that you have painstakingly created are diluted among many unofficial versions made by independent modders, often of poor quality, people will start to associate your product with these abominations. Thus, creation of a strong fanbase for your original product will be impossible.  

On the other hand, how can you even say that it is fortunate that HotA is dead (although it isn't). I for one don't like your mods, I believe they are ugly and the design is extremely poorly-thought, but I would never be happy if for some reason you stopped modding - because there certainly are people who like what you do.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 07, 2022 09:10 AM

HotA is more of an unofficial expansion pack, less of a mod. Hence the locked choices to perserve the vision. I'm fine with that. If people want modding, there's ERA with its seemingly infinite choices readily accessible to the player.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

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StrangeFin
StrangeFin

Tavern Dweller
posted July 07, 2022 02:20 PM

Update by lazy on russian forums, cheers (google translated):




By all assumptions. In the hota group, a groan and panic moods rise again at the expense of the exit of the city. Well, the last report was really quite a long time ago. I will outline the approximate state of affairs, but I may be mistaken in some moments not from my area. I can also repeat myself by mentioning what I mentioned in previous reports. 1) Campaign. 7 out of 8 maps are fully drawn minus minor edits. Eighth map at an early stage. However, all cards will need a testing phase with fully completed creature abilities and city parameters. Plot texts are not tied to cards yet. 2) Cutscenes Completed 14 of 17 cutscenes. The last 3 scenes are in the process of being created and have all the necessary 3d resources (characters, environment).twilight.gif



3) Heroes
Approved all 16 heroes for the city, their names, skills and specializations. All portraits, including campaign heroes, are ready.
The code for new specializations is also ready and added to the game.

4) Graphics
Creatures and heroes on the map are ready (not news). The city screen is close to completion: The work has moved into the 2D post-processing field of finished renders.
All dwellings for the map and view of the city / village are ready.

5) Code
Over the past year, Sav has recruited a team of programmers, so in recent months, progress has accelerated many times over. For a long time, the slowest progress was on the code, so if all the graphics and maps were ready earlier, itís not at all a fact that the release would have taken place earlier.
At the moment, the city has been added as the 11th in a row in the game, most of the special buildings have been implemented, including the second level 7, the specialization of heroes (wrote above).
Creature abilities are all ready, with the exception of Mechanics repair, which is being worked on. AI has already learned to use most of the possibilities.
There will also be a number of innovations not directly related to the factory.

6) Music.
I wrote that there will be a separate post on this topic, but apparently not fate.
The track posted in the spring on Paul Romero's channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z8hiR3E4WA
Really is a musical composition for the city screen.

Being a very pleasant track in itself, unfortunately it does not meet the criteria for a melody for the city screen either in mood or in composition (as the comments under the video show, people did not understand that this is it, a track for the city) and is noticeably out of line melodies of existing cities. At that time, the team made an uneasy but unanimous decision not to use this track on the city screen, instead using the track as the title theme of the campaign (which sounds on the general screen for selecting missions, their descriptions and bonuses). Paul refused to write a new track, but expressed his willingness to edit the existing music to better suit the campaign theme. I can't say that by the release everything will be so with 100% probability, further changes in the plans are always possible. The team remains a priority position,
The track will be used in the game anyway, so any player can bring it back to the city by simply renaming the files in the "MP3" folder.

A new track for the screen will be re-recorded, there are people volunteering to work on it. In addition, new developments of the Associate Professor with alternative melodies, which almost no one had heard before, were recently discovered. What happens in the end - only the future will show.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 07, 2022 03:01 PM

Well that sounds pretty good I guess. Still some kinda estimated releasedate would have been nice.

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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
posted July 07, 2022 04:31 PM

Excellent news, great to see the status so concretely. I wish the team the best.

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pellish
pellish


Famous Hero
posted July 07, 2022 05:11 PM

gnollking said:
Excellent news, great to see the status so concretely. I wish the team the best.

Co-sign. Can't wait!

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted July 07, 2022 09:30 PM

revolut1oN said:

On the other hand, how can you even say that it is fortunate that HotA is dead (although it isn't). I for one don't like your mods, I believe they are ugly and the design is extremely poorly-thought, but I would never be happy if for some reason you stopped modding - because there certainly are people who like what you do.

Well, it's no secret that there are a bunch of people who would love to see Hota "fail" in these forums.

About the news, it seems like lot of has happened since spring. At this rate, the new year release could seem quite possible even. Kinda crazy they're once again literally hiring people in order to push the project forward.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 08, 2022 01:42 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 04:02, 08 Jul 2022.

Quote:
unofficial expansion pack


So, a mod that doesn't admit its a mod... and doesn't allow people to mod their mod even though it mods the base game and its "official expansions", which also don't include anti-modding mechanisms (such as disabling HD launcher scripts).
____________
Never changing = never improving

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Popcioslav
Popcioslav


Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
posted July 08, 2022 03:02 AM
Edited by Popcioslav at 03:15, 08 Jul 2022.

Discarding/using Paul Anthony Romero's composition that was meant to be a town screen theme, for one of campaign themes instead, is pretty weird decision imho.

We've seen from live streams he worked hard for it and I bet Docent would've liked if it played bigger role in this project. Sure it does sound more like something from HoMM5 rather than from HoMM3, but I bet after enough scenarios me and other players would've grown to enjoy it. Especially since it sounds like you've offered critique to Paul, but instead of allowing him to still rework the song to sound more HoMM3like or like a town screen, you've just decided to use it for campaign instead and then tell him he can correct it.



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LordCameron
LordCameron


Adventuring Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
posted July 08, 2022 04:46 AM
Edited by LordCameron at 04:48, 08 Jul 2022.

Popcioslav said:
Discarding/using Paul Anthony Romero's composition that was meant to be a town screen theme, for one of campaign themes instead, is pretty weird decision imho.

We've seen from live streams he worked hard for it and I bet Docent would've liked if it played bigger role in this project. Sure it does sound more like something from HoMM5 rather than from HoMM3, but I bet after enough scenarios me and other players would've grown to enjoy it. Especially since it sounds like you've offered critique to Paul, but instead of allowing him to still rework the song to sound more HoMM3like or like a town screen, you've just decided to use it for campaign instead and then tell him he can correct it.





I don't know. It's really not in keeping with Homm3 or the original demo Paul released when he announced he was working on it. Docent's rift was so cool I don't know why he didn't run with it more. As a huge lover of Romero's work I am pretty disappointed. (Not that he needs to do anything. He was doing for free anyway from what I understand.)

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 08, 2022 04:52 AM

"Campaign themes from the menu" will ot even be heard for 2 min, they are just in between missions... they didn't even had the decency to make it main menu theme?
____________
Never changing = never improving

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culgil
culgil


Adventuring Hero
posted July 08, 2022 10:15 AM

Dear crew,
great to read that the project moves forward!
The list shows clearly how much work it is to implement a completely new town. Hats off, not much is missing now.
And I fully respect your decision to not use Romero's tune as a town theme. In general, I like his music very much, but it simply does not fit (plus, it is very insensitive to use graphics of another mod in the video...). As a campaign theme, it will serve better, those themes are normally not as epic as the town themes.
Finally, and in contrast to some toxic or envious people around here, I am sure many players love this mod a lot!
I wish you good luck with the remaining tasks and will be happy to experience the new version once released


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Popcioslav
Popcioslav


Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
posted July 08, 2022 10:33 AM
Edited by Popcioslav at 10:43, 08 Jul 2022.

LordCameron said:

I don't know. It's really not in keeping with Homm3 or the original demo Paul released when he announced he was working on it. Docent's rift was so cool I don't know why he didn't run with it more. As a huge lover of Romero's work I am pretty disappointed. (Not that he needs to do anything. He was doing for free anyway from what I understand.)

From the post it sounds like Hota Crew didn't even consider first asking Romero to improve certain parts, like Docent's riff for example. When working in professional dev team that would be the first thing I'd do, especially since Romero is a known person to listen to feedback/critique AND also someone who has good communication with fans and such.

It's the Hota Crew's communication that I feel has been failing here. To further boost my point, the theme has been out since March, why do we learn it's being replaced after 4 months? Sure it's great if more of Docent Picolan's composition and samples have resurfaced and they'll be used, but I'd rather trust in vision of one famous composer and get him through a feedback loop, rather than make a Frankenstein monster of a vision and composition that exists only to use the parts left from the original composer.

Maybe they could've made so Factory had a different town music depending on how much progress on the town you've made? Like a dynamic music specifically for town screen? I mean the whole theme of Factory is 'progress', wouldn't that be awesome? It's definitely doable even in the old modded H3 engine and since Paul Anthony Romero's version sounds less upbeat, but still the intro is great and inspired, I think it would've been a great for early town visits and you could have an improved, changed or remastered by Hota Crew version when you max out or nearly max out buildings. But that's just how I would've done it, if I didn't even attempt  better communication with PAR.

In the end Hota is in development hell and since Docent's death, also in radio silence except for russian forums. They're still making a mod, a great one at that and one I'll definitely go replaying it again once and if Factory comes out, but it's still a mod and they've received help from the composer famous for making the music for the series they're making the mod for. Composer that is literally known for making so many takes and drafts that it has become a meme (which explains why the song he made ended up so different from the demo). And instead of rolling with the version you've got or politely asking for improved version with feedback, eventually ending up with best of both worlds, you just toss it aside and used it as a campaign theme that probably most players won't hear for more than a minute.

Quote:
(plus, it is very insensitive to use graphics of another mod in the video...)

What does that have to do with anything? He also used graphics for other things he worked on, not just Heroes 3 mods in the video, it was more of a promo video rather than anything else.

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Opera
Opera


Adventuring Hero
posted July 08, 2022 02:44 PM

I too dont like the music Paul created for Factory

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