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pizdabol
Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
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posted November 08, 2023 09:37 PM |
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Edited by pizdabol at 21:40, 08 Nov 2023.
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The amount of wishful thinking and half-assed semi "educated" guesses in this thread is mind boggling.
Seems we have a whole bunch of designer insiders here, voice over acting and writing experts
Couldn't help myself
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Koven1Nord
Tavern Dweller
DoR 3D-artist
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posted November 08, 2023 09:56 PM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
Koven1Nord said:
I highly doubt it will come out that early
But I doubt they haven't touched creature balance for four years.
You're going to be very surprised, but from 2019 to 2020 they made creatures, from 2020 to 2022 they worked on the city screen, redoing it a col five times, and all of 2022 the code was actively catching up with the graphics. In the end, the code wasn't finished until August 2023. They've been working on campaigns since the beginning of 2023. And from September this year, they started making the balance of the factory to replace what they were doing for the test in 2019. The same balance we could see in The Rally trailer. Texts they can work out for a very long time to make everything look concise canonical and yet detailed. And creature balance is a major problem right now. Otherwise, the city is playable, and if they didn't pay so much attention to balance, it could have been released this week. Whether you take my words seriously or not is up to you. If the post is deleted, it will be enough to realise that this information is unfavourable to someone.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 08, 2023 10:59 PM |
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It will indeed be hard to balance, when Factory has 2 level 7 units!
Factory will probably be another S-tier faction, just like Cove.
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MurlocAggroB
Hired Hero
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posted November 09, 2023 12:19 AM |
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Koven1Nord said:
You're going to be very surprised, but from 2019 to 2020 they made creatures, from 2020 to 2022 they worked on the city screen, redoing it a col five times, and all of 2022 the code was actively catching up with the graphics. In the end, the code wasn't finished until August 2023. They've been working on campaigns since the beginning of 2023. And from September this year, they started making the balance of the factory to replace what they were doing for the test in 2019. The same balance we could see in The Rally trailer. Texts they can work out for a very long time to make everything look concise canonical and yet detailed. And creature balance is a major problem right now. Otherwise, the city is playable, and if they didn't pay so much attention to balance, it could have been released this week. Whether you take my words seriously or not is up to you. If the post is deleted, it will be enough to realise that this information is unfavourable to someone.
"That's a nice argument senator, why don't you back it up with a source?"
Seriously, do you have a source for any of this? If not, I don't know what you're doing. I'm not asking to be sarcastic, I legitimately would like to read it. I want to read everything I can about the development of HotA. I find it very interesting.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 09, 2023 02:24 AM |
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It would be faster to balance with a release along a special tournament or something, then patch it up. Imo.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 09, 2023 03:17 AM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
It will indeed be hard to balance, when Factory has 2 level 7 units!
Factory will probably be another S-tier faction, just like Cove.
Copied H4? In H4 you find 6 Orges or 3 Cyclopses in level 3, for example.. Human player for Cyclopses  So if your team is Stronghold, and you conquered built town where is Orge.. Useless! Now's the same position.. But level 7 is always welcoming to your troops..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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MurlocAggroB
Hired Hero
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posted November 09, 2023 07:05 AM |
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Ghost said:
So if your team is Stronghold, and you conquered built town where is Orge.. Useless! Now's the same position.
It won't be like that with Factory, you can build both level 7 units in the same town. The only thing is they've said that that doing so will be extremely resource-exhausting, so it'll be better to go for one or the other typically.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 09, 2023 07:50 AM |
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Then why even allow 2 level 7's in the first place?
I would have preferred if the coautls were neutral units instead, there are no neutral level 7's in the first place. (No Faerie, Rust, Crystal and Azure Dragons does'nt count, I would consider them level 8, 9, 10 and 11 and they can't appear if you place a random level 7 in the map editor, so they are not level 7.)
It's the same with the Sea Dogs, that for some reason needed 2 upgrades and to be super OP or a cannon that makes ballista and ballista specialists useless and that is meant to be "flavour".
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 12, 2023 10:32 AM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
Ghost said:
So if your team is Stronghold, and you conquered built town where is Orge.. Useless! Now's the same position.
It won't be like that with Factory, you can build both level 7 units in the same town. The only thing is they've said that that doing so will be extremely resource-exhausting, so it'll be better to go for one or the other typically.
Why this link https://heroes3wog.net/couatl-factory-nature-tier-7-horn-of-the-abyss-update-12/
Phoenix4ever said:
Then why even allow 2 level 7's in the first place?
If true.. My favourite town is the Factory, when an example Sal is playing only level 7 and/or +7 creatures in my Homecoming (WoG/ERA) map.. Someone Swedish H3 player too.. And me too, but depend on dwelling on the map.., esp. my maps4heroes (WoG/ERA), I play with only level +7.. Some strong players too.. I don't always remember things and names.. Ok I've seen Lexiav played only 7 level but with joined creatures.. So yes HotA is amateur finally.. I can't play in many reasons, AI wouldn't have been enough gold.. But first I test them..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2023 11:42 AM |
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It IS true, Factory can build 2 different level 7 units at the same time and that is honestly the thing I dislike most about Factory.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 12, 2023 06:50 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
the thing I dislike most about Factory.
the most? So there's more you dislike before it's even out?
I'm sure they've got a fairly good insight into "balancing". Definitely better than yours (or mine, for that matter).
Btw, multiplayer gaming disproves your claim of Cove being OP.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2023 08:13 PM |
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Well there is not a lot I dislike about Factory.
Factory has a magic hero, with Wisdom, Learning and Land Mine specialty. This is gonna be one of the worst heroes in the game, unless they buff Learning and/or Land Mine. Also AI can't cast Land Mine, just like Luna with Fire Wall. It would be nice if they could fix this.
I am also a bit worried about Gunslingers and Bounty Hunters, ranged retaliation is gonna be super annoying to deal with.
Of course we need to test things out, before making judgement, but 2 level 7's seems like too much imo.
When referring to Cove being OP, I was mostly thinking about a fully upgraded Cove army in itself, pretty much all the creatures are super dangerous to face and you can't deal with them all at the same time.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2023 09:00 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Factory has a magic hero, with Wisdom, Learning and Land Mine specialty. This is gonna be one of the worst heroes in the game, unless they buff Learning and/or Land Mine. Also AI can't cast Land Mine, just like Luna with Fire Wall. It would be nice if they could fix this.
I also hope we are seeing both spell and the skill to be fixed. Regardless of that, I don't see that hero being literally among the weakest. Obviously, you're not going to main her, but on a side hero that can deal some extra damage, it's not entirely useless. I think the best thing of such hero is the fact that Land mine will be added for heroes with Scholar. This way the spell could actually see at least a bit more play than it does now. Don't get me wrong, it's not a good spell, but the weakest thing about it is the lvl 3 treatment. It comes out so late that players can't currently just justify casting it.
Phoenix4ever said:
I am also a bit worried about Gunslingers and Bounty Hunters, ranged retaliation is gonna be super annoying to deal with.
Yes, they're going to be a menace. On the other hand it's good to have another high level shooter, despite there being much different creatures, there aren't too many creatures of that kind. Archery based builds will get slighly better.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2023 09:18 PM |
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Land Mine is just one of the worst spells in the game, level 3, Fire Magic, very expensive and does'nt do anything until someone, that is not immune, steps on it and it only places a few mines randomly. Yeah it's garbage really, the only spells worse are Disguise (it does nothing), Slayer and possibly Magic Mirror.
If you make the spell do more damage, it will affect Tower Land Mines as well, so that's a bad idea. I instead increased the amount of mines by 50% and lowered mana cost a bit, making it decent at best...
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 13, 2023 04:35 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Land Mine is just one of the worst spells in the game, level 3, Fire Magic, very expensive and does'nt do anything until someone, that is not immune, steps on it and it only places a few mines randomly. Yeah it's garbage really, the only spells worse are Disguise (it does nothing), Slayer and possibly Magic Mirror.
Well, I think we both do know how bad Land mine is. The thing isn't really about the (un)effectiveness of the spell, but rather about what having a hero that starts with it means to the game as a whole.
Currently, having a "need" to cast it doesn't realistically happen at all - as I said earlier, the main reason why it's not being used ever is because it's a level 3 spell. Instead, you could think what would happen if it was a level 1 spell? (which in terms of power, it could easily be) Sure it would still be bad, but you would use it more, since it was more accesiable, and there would come up more scenarios where using it made the most sense out of all other possibilities, or rather, lack of of them. And no, I'm not talking about some later or even mid parts of the game, but literally the first turns there are.
Now, since there's actually someone who is starting with Land mine, players will face situations where casting it makes sense, because they will lack other plays. And in terms gameplay experience, I think that's a good thing. Finding unsusual solutions in a game this old is more than welcome. After all, I'm sure you either didn't want to see a new Eagle eye or Cure specialist. In a game full of different heroes, I would really want to see some more unique takes, especially within spell specialists. Now I'm hoping for Quicksand and Force field specialists.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 13, 2023 09:06 PM |
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Well I guess it is interesting starting with Land Mine, no other hero has that at least, but the only time you would cast it is when playing as the Land Mine specialist and that is only when she has nothing else and she would still only be able to cast it once.
Yes it gives heroes with Scholar a chance to distribute it as well, but you need Basic Wisdom and Advanced Scholar + spell book to learn it and the other hero needs Basic Wisdom + spell book, so it won't work in all cases either.
Eagle Eye just needs to be buffed, I already did so myself, but it's not enough. If you make it 80% chance at all levels, let it learn level 3/4/5 spells, spells from creatures and learn them during combat, not after, then it would be at least a bit better I think.
But the problem is also Scholars, Tomes and Spellbinder's Hat, so that's not great.
Cure is a great spell, but stupidly designed Green and Gold Dragons are immune to it. 
Quicksand and Force Field would be two other spells AI can't cast, so if they should exist, at least make AI able to use them as well.
I guess a Quicksand specialist would produce more pits, but what about Force Field?, +1 turn to duration?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 14, 2023 10:19 AM |
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In addition, the mines are visible to creatures on their native terrain, so the ability to use the spell is pretty situational.
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evilcherry
Hired Hero
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posted November 14, 2023 05:04 PM |
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If 2 lv7 units is broken then maybe divide their weekly growth by 2 as soon as both lv7 dwellings are built. Wouldn't it fix the potential imbalance ?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 14, 2023 05:31 PM |
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Yes, but it appears they will have normal growth. (2 of each per week.)
If you have the money, of course you are going to buy both level 7's. The question is, which unit will you then leave behind?, cause the town produces 8 units, but there is only "room for" 7...
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mitsche91
Hired Hero
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posted November 14, 2023 08:45 PM |
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Probably you would give up on the Armadillo. Halflings might be usefull shooters because of their ability and Engeneers would heal Juggernauts and probably Automatons. The Armadillo might be a good tier 3 unit, but won‘t have any special ability as far as I know. But in the end we all can just speculate about this and a possible overwhelming power of a town with two tier 7 creatures. I don‘t know how, but maybe we will be suprised by the team‘s solution. Let‘s give this unique idea a chance.
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