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molski
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 16, 2023 01:26 PM |
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I'm confident they'll balance two tier 7 dwellings in Factory.
They'll most likely make them belong to two disjoint tech trees. Imagine one branch having a build-up similar to Green/Red Dragons (all the lower dwellings + Mage Guild 2), while second branch having non-dwelling pre-requisites (probably Blacksmith and other buildings, like Library before Archmagi, Magic School before Sprites, or Resource Silo before Mighty Gorgons).
It's gonna take two weeks to finish both of them probably. You simply won't have enough resources to build them quickly. And even if you do, by that time it'll be implied you have more than 1 town already so you'll still have to decide whether to buy 2nd Tier 7 in Factory or a new tier 7 in secondary towns.
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted November 27, 2023 10:47 PM |
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Does HoTA disable the ability to disable Tactics for some reason?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2023 06:43 AM |
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Yes, for some reason.
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orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted November 28, 2023 06:41 PM |
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Artificial Intelligence
Hello HotA community! Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play the game for months now and probably won't have it for a considerable amount of time. But upon hearing the announcement of GTA VI and seeing the advancements in the AI field, i wondered if the developers have any plans to build a better computer player in the upcoming updates. I mean, are they keen on collecting/organizing more data both for online & offline matches? Because if not, they should start immediately. Since the online community keeps growing every day ( at least this was the case when i last played ) and adopting the new AI technologies will be inevitable in every industry.
You know, the idea of a learning/improvising computer player alone gives me so much excitement regarding the future of my all-time favorite video game. I'll probably come back to check the replies, have a good day and hope to hear from you soon.
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Dydzio
Adventuring Hero
VCMI contributor
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posted November 29, 2023 01:03 PM |
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orrinisthebest said:
Hello HotA community! Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play the game for months now and probably won't have it for a considerable amount of time. But upon hearing the announcement of GTA VI and seeing the advancements in the AI field, i wondered if the developers have any plans to build a better computer player in the upcoming updates. I mean, are they keen on collecting/organizing more data both for online & offline matches? Because if not, they should start immediately. Since the online community keeps growing every day ( at least this was the case when i last played ) and adopting the new AI technologies will be inevitable in every industry.
You know, the idea of a learning/improvising computer player alone gives me so much excitement regarding the future of my all-time favorite video game. I'll probably come back to check the replies, have a good day and hope to hear from you soon.
Answer to at least some stuff here would be no.
First of all phoning home with gathering at least offline matches data without user consent would be bad practice from privacy etc. point of view.
Second thing: Machine learning requires somebody who specializes in this, assuming it is not a big deal is wishful thinking that does not convert to reality.
Third thing: Comparing hota with commercial games does not work, because commercial games are made via standard programming, while making hota revolves around patching heroes 3 .exe file, which leads to many limitations that come with this way of modding.
Also reality to train AI in h3 would be most likely limited to battles, since due to complexity of adventure map AI it would probably require big partnership with OpenAI or something similar to get any viable results.
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weilan
Known Hero
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posted November 29, 2023 06:26 PM |
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Dydzio said:
orrinisthebest said:
Hello HotA community! Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play the game for months now and probably won't have it for a considerable amount of time. But upon hearing the announcement of GTA VI and seeing the advancements in the AI field, i wondered if the developers have any plans to build a better computer player in the upcoming updates. I mean, are they keen on collecting/organizing more data both for online & offline matches? Because if not, they should start immediately. Since the online community keeps growing every day ( at least this was the case when i last played ) and adopting the new AI technologies will be inevitable in every industry.
You know, the idea of a learning/improvising computer player alone gives me so much excitement regarding the future of my all-time favorite video game. I'll probably come back to check the replies, have a good day and hope to hear from you soon.
Answer to at least some stuff here would be no.
First of all phoning home with gathering at least offline matches data without user consent would be bad practice from privacy etc. point of view.
Second thing: Machine learning requires somebody who specializes in this, assuming it is not a big deal is wishful thinking that does not convert to reality.
Third thing: Comparing hota with commercial games does not work, because commercial games are made via standard programming, while making hota revolves around patching heroes 3 .exe file, which leads to many limitations that come with this way of modding.
Also reality to train AI in h3 would be most likely limited to battles, since due to complexity of adventure map AI it would probably require big partnership with OpenAI or something similar to get any viable results.
Yeah, I don't see the AI getting any better. The game is 20+ years old and still works fine, it's fun, the difficulty is good and there is still a large community for players and modders, so the game is in a great state as it is. The same can't be said about many 20+ year old games.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 29, 2023 06:53 PM |
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If we want to improve the AI, we could at least allow it to build all town buildings and cast all spells.
We could also tweak AI's priorities towards skills, so it (almost) always picks Earth Magic, Wisdom and Logistics for example.
It could also use better spells and not mostly target your weakest stacks or even war machines.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2023 07:34 PM |
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Well, for starters maybe some of the vs. AI/neutrals exploits could be disabled. Not only talking about stuff like Luna/Fire Wall but even common tactics like having neutrals waste their turns on 1-stacks.
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orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted November 30, 2023 09:37 AM |
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Dydzio said:
1) First of all phoning home with gathering at least offline matches data without user consent would be bad practice from privacy etc. point of view.
2) Second thing: Machine learning requires somebody who specializes in this, assuming it is not a big deal is wishful thinking that does not convert to reality.
3) Third thing: Comparing hota with commercial games does not work, because commercial games are made via standard programming, while making hota revolves around patching heroes 3 .exe file, which leads to many limitations that come with this way of modding.
Also reality to train AI in h3 would be most likely limited to battles, since due to complexity of adventure map AI it would probably require big partnership with OpenAI or something similar to get any viable results.
1) Then collect the info of those who don't care about their game stats, nothing unethical about it.
2) ML is mainly (around 80% ) about clean,inclusive data - a lot of it. The model and the code for many applications are basically a solved problem. Which means soon, if you have clean data in large amounts, you will be able to utilize the models created by them hardcore developers for free.
3) Doesn't matter how long it will take, say if i become a ML engineer one day ill gladly help the team to come up with the non-destructive solutions. Even if we can't find a dedicated AI specialist, there is no harm in storing the relevant data.
Again, it is all about data and compared to other video games, HotA doesn't strike me as a complex game. Sooner they start gathering the data, sooner we'll bear the fruits.
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Dydzio
Adventuring Hero
VCMI contributor
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posted November 30, 2023 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Dydzio at 11:07, 30 Nov 2023.
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You need to craft data format for replays that is efficient of processing, and to start taking advantage of machine learning you need to design learning model with parameters that make sense for particular game - based on complexity of adventure map gameplay it would be very hard to achieve. You may actually need few separate AIs to make stuff less interdependent - like town management... but it is also related to resources which are obtainable via hero movement, so actually IDK how you can reduce interdependency. Coding adventure map AI without machine learning is already tough task.
Adventure map AI in h3 is very good and its partially due to fact that they reused what they achieved while working on H2. There are extremely many rules that determine what is worth doing when. Remaking that to the extent where AI can get to that level via pure trial & error scenario would be insane amount of work and many factors would need to be evaluated.
Also keep in mind that hota is extremely "anti flip-switch" project so it is unlikely that you will be able to swap between old and new AI, and old AI is always safer choice for satisfying general audience with one version of mechanics.
Anti AI/neutral exploits fix won't happen in hota as well because pvp-ers would riot. Actually more than half of hota feature requests on this forum would make pvp-ers riot
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 30, 2023 03:45 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 17:37, 30 Nov 2023.
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Human AI Mod (WoG/ERA) is a very well enough to HotA.. Extremely OP to combined Difficulty Mod (WoG/ERA).. doesn't fit with HotA.. I'm using both..
Human AI Mod means AI uses 8 heroes, the best skills from maps, an example of Diplomacy and Navigation, AI uses maximum troops from town in principle main hero and not scouts, but Diplomacy, second town or dwellings for scouts.. And skeleton/lich bug fixed..
Difficulty Mod means AI gets very highest PS, all heroes get growthing/increasing troops in every day, an example of one level +7 creature per day, also highest hero level..
So you see Difficulty Mod hasn't the best skills, etc when combined/enabled both.. Cool! So strong scouts, for example..
Why HotA can't be Difficulty Mod? You choose from easy to insane, etc And Human AI Mod hasn't a choice.. Then you don't notice..
EDIT
Ok I show you combined Human AI Mod and Difficulty Mod
Ok Gaming difficulty level is Expert and Difficulty Mod level is Extreme.. Both needed to next level is Impossible and Insane.. But hmm so I'm alive 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Dydzio
Adventuring Hero
VCMI contributor
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posted November 30, 2023 06:49 PM |
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While we are at AI cheating - in VCMI 1.4 there will be new feature that will allow modders to add arbitrary cheats to AI (with limitations currently set by VCMI bonus system). Some stock example will be in new launcher mod named "Boost AI" so this is yet another option to try.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 30, 2023 06:57 PM |
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Dydzio said:
Anti AI/neutral exploits fix won't happen in hota as well because pvp-ers would riot.
I can understand this for general exploit fixes as this has the potential to significantly slow down early game.
But why would anyone riot if specific exploits like Luna (or the way AI reacts to Fire Wall) were fixed?
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted November 30, 2023 10:37 PM |
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Quote:
But why would anyone riot if specific exploits like Luna (or the way AI reacts to Fire Wall) were fixed?
Because PvPers learn and use exploits on daily basis, and don't like them being taken away
We face these opinions every day.
Quote:
Why HotA can't be Difficulty Mod?
Because HoTA is, by design, not configurable. If you want to configure or mod game, you have ERA and VCMI.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted December 01, 2023 03:01 PM |
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Sure but Luna/Firewall mechanics is an exploit which distorts balance. Nobody will play Conflux without her, having her pop up in your Tavern during early game is like cheating.
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Dydzio
Adventuring Hero
VCMI contributor
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posted December 03, 2023 11:01 PM |
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Luna stuff was already incorporated into balance - current state of hota balance has thousands of hours of testing and pvp theorycrafting behind it
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aztorin5
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 04, 2023 01:34 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
So I guess somewhere between september and december would be realistic?
Nope 
MurlocAggroB said:
The 20th November is a little less than two weeks from now. I don't think it's impossible for them to book voice actors (that'll take one day minimum, max a week depending on each actor's schedule), and writing is the easiest thing to do, especially if the story is already outlined and finished. I don't think it's impossible.
It is impossible
MurlocAggroB said:
I don't imagine it will be any later than New Years 2024.
Still so sure about that?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 04, 2023 02:43 PM |
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Oh well, guess I'll just wait 5 more years or be dead by then.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 04, 2023 02:58 PM |
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But I got/'ve a throng of Magic Elementals and legion of Strom Elementals and Energy Elementals.. I reached 5th, and Green went to 6th.. A very good MOD.. Hmm in the 4 months, and game saved.. HotA team is a half-dead due to Human AI Mod?! Ok guys, females..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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aztorin5
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 04, 2023 03:42 PM |
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Edited by aztorin5 at 15:45, 04 Dec 2023.
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Phoenix4ever said:
Oh well, guess I'll just wait 5 more years or be dead by then.
Well, considering fact that "developing" process of 1.7.0 is going for example from this:
https://ibb.co/6H8cYnV
to that:
https://ibb.co/f8q1tmn
I think that 5 years of waiting sounds little bit too optimistic
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