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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 02, 2025 09:47 PM |
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Hmm thanks for the answer Tevye and I understand, but for now I think I'll ban Learning and remove it from all heroes.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted January 02, 2025 10:21 PM |
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Tevye
Since you guys have decided to go full Wog why not make all gameplay changes selectable also?
There are so many changes now the chance anyone will choose ALL rather than NONE is quite low.
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted January 02, 2025 10:30 PM |
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Just checking in with the mandatory (albeit a bit late) congratulations on and thanks for yet another update. It will be very interesting to see how this shakes up the meta. I'm very psyched to test out the gameplay myself.
Not to mention my excitement for Bulwark... Wow! Huge announcement! Thanks guys. Great job as always and happy New Year to you all. 
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted January 02, 2025 11:28 PM |
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@Spartak
Thank you for the kind words!
And yes, the Bulwark is a cool name. I originally had a very loose "Keep" in mind when thinking about a possible revival of the Kronverk in HotA, but it is clear that I did not give a potential English name much thought.
@Tevye
Indeed, that is very true. I do not intend to speak in HotA Crew's place about it, but while it is likely just a convenient coincidence, the vibe, visuals and direction (northern barbarians, presumably among other things which you will surely expand onto with future community updates) of the Bulwark town are positively different from those of Palace (pagano-divine Asgard/Valhalla, with motifs of timelessness and Asian influences akin to Rampart). Which is quite welcome and healthy, overall. Makes me more the eager to see what the Bulwark has to offer, too 
And speaking of millennia, given that time in Vori passes very slowly (Adelaide spent a good while in Vori, but practically no time passed in the outside world), and that the same land can feature different creatures in MM RPGs (for example, there are Hydras in Nighon, in MM7, but they are not present in the Dungeon town), one, if they so wish, could theorize that the Bulwark and Palace coexist in the same world and maybe even in different time periods in Vori, to a certain extent (as much as the story of each allows). Although of course, this is likely not the only interpretation that could allow them to coexist in one's mind - there is room for creativity.
@E1ChuRich
While the design of DoR generally intends to not overlap with HotA's, I am afraid that originally, the Forge did feature a Juggernaut. Still, especially as it is an exception, it is fortunately not too bothersome.
P.S. The mammoths are especially cool, I like prehistoric vibes in snow factions.
____________
Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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kutaycom
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 03, 2025 01:14 AM |
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Both Henrietta and Anabel(michelle rodriguez) are too overpowered. Hota team is doing their own towns a lot of favor seems like. I will ban both cove and factory in my own games. too many players started to use these two heroes and this is not a coincidence. just registered to say this.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 03, 2025 07:09 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
So I just checked all the new creature specialists and I must say they have become MUCH stronger:
The best one is Anabel, at level 25 she gets 20/18 = 38 bonus points! (That's what happens when you make a unit with 2 upgrades and insane stats.)
Second place goes to Wystan 15/20 and Derek 20/15 = 35 bonus points.
Third place goes to Ufretin and Piquedram both 17/17 = 34 bonus points.
The 3 worst are:
Henrietta 13/5 = 18 bonus points.
Ignatius 10/10 and Jabarkas 13/7 = 20 bonus points.
Ryland 9/12, Gretchin 13/8 and Casmetra 12/9 = 21 bonus points.
Galthran gets 15/15 = 30 bonus points by the way, with a legion of skels he will also become quite insane...
Anabel yes, Henrietta not really...
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 03, 2025 12:32 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
phoenix4ever said:
So I just checked all the new creature specialists and I must say they have become MUCH stronger:
The best one is Anabel, at level 25 she gets 20/18 = 38 bonus points! (That's what happens when you make a unit with 2 upgrades and insane stats.)
Second place goes to Wystan 15/20 and Derek 20/15 = 35 bonus points.
Third place goes to Ufretin and Piquedram both 17/17 = 34 bonus points.
The 3 worst are:
Henrietta 13/5 = 18 bonus points.
Ignatius 10/10 and Jabarkas 13/7 = 20 bonus points.
Ryland 9/12, Gretchin 13/8 and Casmetra 12/9 = 21 bonus points.
Galthran gets 15/15 = 30 bonus points by the way, with a legion of skels he will also become quite insane...
Anabel yes, Henrietta not really...
Note, Phoenix, that most of the level one specialists have been dominating the meta game basically since dawn of time. Do you remeber when we talked about the power of possible Halfling specialist before Factory was released, and how that would probably be "too op?" It turned out that Henrietta truly was a monster, and was only really held back due somewhat unoptimal starting secondary skills. I mean, now even she got a buff. Sure, now there are heroes that will outphase when it comes to primary stats, but the point of level one specialists never was about making their specialized troops good for end game (exept Galthran). Rather, they build their advantage for elsewhere, and sweep the map with that.
Look no further than Cass vs. Anabel. Sure, the Anabel will growth a lot of power over time, but I'm not sure why Cove players would switch the super consistent Cass for Anabel.
And about Learning, we will see how much Learning will impact the meta. Personally, I feel this version of Learning is around the same realm of value I suggested couple of weeks ago (expert Learning giving +6 primary stats, but 30% more experience), and I didn't see that version of Learning being a go-to meta skill. Ofc, now since so many things got switched it's hard to compare the two. Let's just say you really need the value out of your hero's specialization in order to make the current version of Learning worth it.
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beefymiracle
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 03, 2025 01:39 PM |
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Dear HotA crew, let me thank you for going bold on the secondary skills. This update is the one which has me hyped the most since the initial release. I hope new skill trees will see some lesser liked heroes shine, especially from the Magic department.
The new UI enhancements remove remaining unfinished sharp edges of the original game.
Is there any particular reason for keeping the constant bonuses for the Conflux creature specialists other than tradition? A nod to the original developers? Reverse Engineering restriction? Even if it makes some sense Planewalkers are still a monotonous group of 4 duplicative pairs.
What's the reason for making dragons more attainable? Was the need to slightly buff Rampart and Dungeon indicated by online lobby telemetry or player feedback? A bit sad to see Stronghold lose a few metres of their lvl7 head start but then again HoTA made Cyclopes more attainable a while back. Also a bit suprised the mech-Factory buffs aren't compensated for but I take it you have data showing Factory as a whole wasn't quite up to the task.
Eagle Eye still isn't universally useful but at least you still get to peek into the enemy's spell book if you can't make use of the spell learning feature. However I'll second this
gatecrasher said:
Maybe the new Eagle Eye should rather be called "Telepathy", "Perception", "Awareness", "Apprehension", "Insight", "Intuition", "Divination", "Anticipation", "Empathy", "Susceptibility", "Concentration", "Theurgy", "Prescience" or "Vocation" instead.
Would make it feel more like a magic/"mind art" skill rather than being tied to beyond 20/20 vision.
Back in the day I'd sometimes confuse Eagle Eye with Scouting. Adding Acuity to the list of potential names.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 03, 2025 02:22 PM |
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beefymiracle said:
What's the reason for making dragons more attainable? Was the need to slightly buff Rampart and Dungeon indicated by online lobby telemetry or player feedback?
I would personally guess the answer is what you kinda think it is, especially when talked about Rampart. Despite Rampart being among the better towns in SoD, they've kinda been directly/indirectly nerfed over time. Most other towns are considerably got better among the years.
Big problem for Rampart has been that their Green Dragons have been basically absent in the normal maps. The drags require a whole week investment, and this is something that Rampart really doesn't want to do during week one. Early Rampart army is pretty weak against the Dragon dwelling, and rampart want's to upgrade both it's Centaurs and Elves asap anyway. So the before the update, there really hasn't been a reason to go for early Dragons, which has kinda limited what Rampart can do. Gotta say, that I really, really like this change.
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ArchDruid
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 03, 2025 03:18 PM |
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Note to the HotA programmers:
Guys, I found a minor issue in HotA.dat file.
In the game if you hover your cursor on a border guard/gate it says:
(Keymaster seen). But after you visit the same colored Keymaster, the line says: (See Keymaster)
I think you misplaced the two lines in HotA.dat file. 0000F300 - 0000F330
#322
(See Keymaster)
#323
(Keymaster seen)
Interesting new thing by the way... Now you can see if you visited it or not. It just needs to be changed like this:
#322
(Keymaster seen)
#323
(See Keymaster)
bonus question:
I tried to rewrite (See keymaster) word to (Find Keymaster) (it fits better IMO) but if I add one plus byte to the file, it goes corrupt and the game crashes.
I found, that I can rewrite any text to anything until the .dat file keeps its size: 340 872 bytes.
If I add or take one single byte the file goes corrupt. Why is that? What defines the .dat file size? I guess there is something in HotA.dll file, what defines the dat file. I'm trying to learn some basics.
Another thing about Tent colors: Why is it, there are White and Black Tents, but there are no White and Black player colors? Or rather why there are no Orange and Pink tents? I always wondered, why the creators decided to do this. 6 of the 8 player colors are match the colors of KM Tents, but orange and pink never got their own Tents and border guards.
Thank you for your responses.
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted January 03, 2025 04:57 PM |
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I don't have access to 1.7.1 to check whether it's a new change, but I'm noticing that at least in 1.7.2 the Deus Ex Machina scenario in Forged in Fire has a seer's hut where you encounter Jotunn from Vori, described as blue-skinned and calling their former leader a "konung". Some foreshadowing of Bulwark, I'd say.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 03, 2025 04:59 PM |
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Hourglass said:
Note, Phoenix, that most of the level one specialists have been dominating the meta game basically since dawn of time. Do you remeber when we talked about the power of possible Halfling specialist before Factory was released, and how that would probably be "too op?" It turned out that Henrietta truly was a monster, and was only really held back due somewhat unoptimal starting secondary skills. I mean, now even she got a buff. Sure, now there are heroes that will outphase when it comes to primary stats, but the point of level one specialists never was about making their specialized troops good for end game (exept Galthran). Rather, they build their advantage for elsewhere, and sweep the map with that.
Look no further than Cass vs. Anabel. Sure, the Anabel will growth a lot of power over time, but I'm not sure why Cove players would switch the super consistent Cass for Anabel.
And about Learning, we will see how much Learning will impact the meta. Personally, I feel this version of Learning is around the same realm of value I suggested couple of weeks ago (expert Learning giving +6 primary stats, but 30% more experience), and I didn't see that version of Learning being a go-to meta skill. Ofc, now since so many things got switched it's hard to compare the two. Let's just say you really need the value out of your hero's specialization in order to make the current version of Learning worth it.
Hi Hourglass
Yeah I remember our discussions about a potential halfling specialist and then we indeed got Henrietta with Factory.
I agree she is very good for the early game, however she is the creature specialist that gets the least amount of bonusses. Halflings have low defence, low HP and come in pretty low numbers, so they are quite easy to lose.
So yeah in the long term, she is probably not very good, but for the early game she is good. And yeah her starting skills are quite mediocre. Note also that Automatons and Juggernauts does'nt benefit from Leadership...
Learning was mostly related to Quest Guards, Quest Gates and Seer's Huts, where you need to reach a certain level to grab the reward first, maybe only a one time event. So for those instances Learning is OP, in most other cases it's probably fine, but about 100 times better than before.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 03, 2025 05:02 PM |
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LordInsane said:
I don't have access to 1.7.1 to check whether it's a new change, but I'm noticing that at least in 1.7.2 the Deus Ex Machina scenario in Forged in Fire has a seer's hut where you encounter Jotunn from Vori, described as blue-skinned and calling their former leader a "konung". Some foreshadowing of Bulwark, I'd say.
Konung means King in Swedish.
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted January 03, 2025 05:38 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Konung means King in Swedish.
I know, my native language is Swedish. I would add the qualifier that Konung is slightly archaic, the regular form in modern Swedish is the shortened Kung.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 03, 2025 05:43 PM |
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Haha okay, then of course you know all about it.
I'm Danish btw.
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culgil
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 04, 2025 02:37 AM |
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Edited by culgil at 02:46, 04 Jan 2025.
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Hats off and big thanks to the HotA crew for this huge patch with such an impressive patchlog!
There are many great changes which will shake up the meta quite substantially; I'd bet even pro players - without pre-release access - will need weeks or months to adapt to this. At the same time, I am more skeptical about some changes.
Secondary skills:
Learning triggering an extra level is a great idea. I managed to jump from No Learning to Expert Learning because of only one level-up Hopefully, Learning is now viable for primary heroes for the early game, especially to snatch the welcome extra primary skills and synergize with the much improved creature and spell specialities. Let's see if Alchemists are viable now, they have by far the highest chance for Learning and also several creature specialities (and Mysticism + a spell book). If secondary heroes don't get offered the desired skill (e.g. Logistics, Estates, Scholar, etc.), but Learning instead, you could take that and get another chance for the desired skill 
(1) I noticed the extra level does not trigger for heroes starting with Learning. Is this intentional or can it be considered a bug (should they get an immediate level-up after starting the game with them or hiring them)?
Eagle Eye is brilliantly realized, I like how I can go through the opponent's spell book and see the mastery in each Magic school they have or which spell they still have mana for:
By the way, spells without sufficient mana could perhaps be shown more pronounced in red (instead of yellow/beige) to visualize immediately what the opponent can't cast (also for my own spellbook). (I just noticed the font colors in the spellbook apparently changed: somehow, the name color now changes from beige to white for spells which have a magic school. I couldn't reproduce it without EE so far)
Besides the spying aspect, EE is again mainly an early game skill (until all spells are learned). What makes it interesting is that the chance triggers for EVERY spell in the opponent's spellbook separately. If your opponent has 10 spells, you don't know 5 of them and have Expert EE, for each of the 5, you have a 60% chance of learning it before the battle starts. This means, with all artifacts (90% chance) or a specialist of lvl >10, you will learn (nearly) all unknown spells from your opponent before the battle. Quite nice! If secondary opponent heroes have advanced Wisdom, you may even pick up Armageddon, Resurrection, Town Portal etc. from them (it does work on Adventure map spells).
I also like the changes to Sorcery, Mysticism, Pathfinding and the anti-sniping protection for war machines. The substantial health boost of First Aid may lead to very swingy battles where it is crucial for the opponent to quickly kill the tent; if it succeeds, the skill becomes non-effective, if it fails, the battle may already even be lost. Let's see how this works out. The more powerful Luck triggering for every attack (and counterattack, right?) could also have this issue.
@ceceron: Pathfinding does work on non-rough terrain before the multiplier for diagonal move is factored in, e.g. a straight move of 100 becomes 95 (Basic) and for diagonal times 1,41 = 134. (so it's not 141 - 25 = 116, which also would be weird)
(2) You could now allow Implosion against the Catapult. I think it was only disabled to prevent sniping. With the 40% rule, it should be okay.
(3) Did or will the HotA crew consider updating the starting skills or skill probabilites of Cove and Factory heroes? Because those and Conflux heroes mostly avoided the formerly bad skills. E.g. Conflux and Cove have a First Aid roll chance as low as Stronghold; Eagle Eye has one starting hero from each original town (RoE), but no other and Cove & Factory have low chances; again only RoE heroes start with Mysticism and Cove & Factory have low chances; a counterexample is Pathfinding which is more used for HotA heroes than SoD ones.
Specialists:
Great work at fixing special cases like Forgetfulness, Adrienne's Fire Magic and Cure! And really strong buffs for the spell and creature specialists! While this may be disruptive to the current meta, it makes sense balance-wise: if mana runs out for the only improved spell or if the only improved unit dies, there is no bonus anymore. Compare this to Offense or Logistics specialty. Flat +12 to Water Elementals from day 1 sounds strong, though.
Bulwark:
Like several others, I am not impressed by Bulwark, I am sorry. For me, it doesn't work conceptually to represent Vori. I don't know all the lore, but I would assume Vori to be good-aligned and dominated by High Elves who are superior to and nobler than the Wood Elves. I can't associate these vibes with Bulwark shown so far. Zigzag walls may fit to Dwarves, but for me not to Elves. I like the Ape Yeti though!
Town changes:
Nice to see the Factory changes, which should make it much easier to build Gantry in week 1. My concern is that it may be overtuned now, esp. in long games with few towns where you stay at your initial type of town and the double lvl 7 prefers Factory. To my casual player eyes  , the Mechanic is already really strong combined with Automatons.
Removing requirements for Rampart and Dungeon lvl 7 buildings sounds like a big, disruptive change. I was already wondering why you didn't fix the nefarious 10 crystal cost of the Pegasus building before 
(4) Did you consider requiring only one of the two buildings respectively, e.g. either Labyrinth or Manticore Lair to build Dragon Cave (while also reducing the cost of at least one such building)? Is it possible to implement these alternative requirements? It could open some room for adapting to the resources on the map and the opponent.
Thank you so much for the new content and the great QoL updates! All the increased transparency in battles and on the adventure map are very helpful, as are mapmaker options of banning combination artifacts and handling difficulties. I am looking forward to exploring everything!
And last, but not least, great thanks for the new wonderful music of the Dargem campaign!
(5) Could you tell who are the authors of the 7 themes, respectively?
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Tevye
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 04, 2025 06:25 AM |
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culgil said:
Could you tell who are the authors of the 7 themes, respectively?
DargemCampaignTheme - Maigret
DargemIntro1 - Maigret
DargemIntro2 - Maigret
DargemIntro3 - Maigret
DargemIntro4 - Tevye
DargemIntro5 - Heetch
DargemOutro5 - Heetch
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kutaycom
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2025 10:00 AM |
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Hourglass said:
Phoenix4ever said:
phoenix4ever said:
So I just checked all the new creature specialists and I must say they have become MUCH stronger:
The best one is Anabel, at level 25 she gets 20/18 = 38 bonus points! (That's what happens when you make a unit with 2 upgrades and insane stats.)
Second place goes to Wystan 15/20 and Derek 20/15 = 35 bonus points.
Third place goes to Ufretin and Piquedram both 17/17 = 34 bonus points.
The 3 worst are:
Henrietta 13/5 = 18 bonus points.
Ignatius 10/10 and Jabarkas 13/7 = 20 bonus points.
Ryland 9/12, Gretchin 13/8 and Casmetra 12/9 = 21 bonus points.
Galthran gets 15/15 = 30 bonus points by the way, with a legion of skels he will also become quite insane...
Anabel yes, Henrietta not really...
Note, Phoenix, that most of the level one specialists have been dominating the meta game basically since dawn of time. Do you remeber when we talked about the power of possible Halfling specialist before Factory was released, and how that would probably be "too op?" It turned out that Henrietta truly was a monster, and was only really held back due somewhat unoptimal starting secondary skills. I mean, now even she got a buff. Sure, now there are heroes that will outphase when it comes to primary stats, but the point of level one specialists never was about making their specialized troops good for end game (exept Galthran). Rather, they build their advantage for elsewhere, and sweep the map with that.
Look no further than Cass vs. Anabel. Sure, the Anabel will growth a lot of power over time, but I'm not sure why Cove players would switch the super consistent Cass for Anabel.
And about Learning, we will see how much Learning will impact the meta. Personally, I feel this version of Learning is around the same realm of value I suggested couple of weeks ago (expert Learning giving +6 primary stats, but 30% more experience), and I didn't see that version of Learning being a go-to meta skill. Ofc, now since so many things got switched it's hard to compare the two. Let's just say you really need the value out of your hero's specialization in order to make the current version of Learning worth it.
Yes, forgot about Cass, actually most of the factory and cove heroes feels like each is their moms special child. nice skill distributions. nice specialties. no miss shots.
____________
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2025 12:36 PM |
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ArchDruid said:
How about implement snow versions of any map object (that still don't have one) War academy, Arena, Star Axis, Garden, etc...
The most pressing one I think is the Airship Yard which really stands out on some of the new maps. And it's remarkable the game never has included snow variants of external Tower dwellings.
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beefymiracle
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2025 02:58 PM |
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@ HotA crew
What's the reason you changed(buffed) the specialties of some campaign heroes? For the sake of consistency or is it a forerunner for the orginal campaigns to get updated to HotA standards?
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This Super Thread is pages long: 
