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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 07, 2014 10:49 AM |
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GunFred said:
You are the one who just want people to bend over and take it from behind from authority. You are in no position to call people who risk their lives for change "cowards".
yea, sure I am.
for what change? there's no change there. Ukraine had a "pro-european" goverment once. it was also put in power by a "revolution". what happened? they stole like there was no snowing tommorow. the same will happen again, and again, and again. It's a perfect illustration of the definition of insanity.
besides, post soviet politicians will use whatever the snow necessary to stay in power like swines near the feeding tray.
they could even sell their god damn mothers so they'll be kept their posts. so either they were pissing their pants in front of a bandit holding them up at gun point, denying every snowing thing to please the basterds, or they were bought. no other option is possible.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 07, 2014 11:09 AM |
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It's ukraine kip. It doesn't matter if it's pro EU or pro Russia. Both will steal like no tomorrow.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 07, 2014 11:12 AM |
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That's exactly what I meant.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 07, 2014 11:16 AM |
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Wether they had changed or not is not arguable. Feel free to believe/predict that their actions were selfdestructive but you do not understand what cowardice is if you call people who would do partially violent protests against an authoritarian government "cowards" even when lots of people die because of it. I doubt that if the crimean people expelled the ukrainians with force, that you would call them cowards.
kipshasz said:
so either they were pissing their pants in front of a bandit holding them up at gun point, denying every snowing thing to please the basterds, or they were bought. no other option is possible.
Now you just sound like you are calling the old government cowardly from fleeing from the so called "bandits". 
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 07, 2014 01:20 PM |
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you completely missed my point by a mile there.
Why do I even bother?
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 07, 2014 01:49 PM |
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kipshasz said:
you completely missed my point by a mile there.
Why do I even bother?
MY point was that you falsely accused the protesters/new government for being cowards and you did a bad job at defending your statement. And then you denied that there was change...
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 07, 2014 03:04 PM |
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And here I thought you were smart. not even capable of reading properly.
the "new" goverment is basically the old one, but with yank puppets at the main posts. all the rest were bought or held at gunpoint. those are the cowards and tunrcloaks. shoukd I spell it out for you?
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 07, 2014 03:40 PM |
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kipshasz said:
And here I thought you were smart. not even capable of reading properly.
the "new" goverment is basically the old one, but with yank puppets at the main posts. all the rest were bought or held at gunpoint. those are the cowards and tunrcloaks. shoukd I spell it out for you?
You never cared wether I was smart or not, however you have deluded yourself that you are...
I said myself that Ukraine is still Ukraine but in the real world, changing alignment from pro-russia to pro-EU is a pretty radical change and Russia's actions are proof of the size of that change.
You pretty much confirmed that you think of them all as cowards. Unless you share my appearent reading problems...
kipshasz said:
GunFred said:
You are the one who just want people to bend over and take it from behind from authority. You are in no position to call people who risk their lives for change "cowards".
yea, sure I am.
Also, it is only natural that some would stay behind and work for the new government. It was not an all-out rebellion and you can't expect them all to be undyingly loyal to their leader-of-the-moment and have a personal grudge against the protesters. And the more that stays, the better for the pro-russian cause as then they get more influence in the new government. And if you think the new government with its so called "turncloaks" is any more corrupt than the old one, think again.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 07, 2014 07:59 PM |
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So, latest news are that Gazprom threatens to stop the gas deliveries for Ukraine if it doesn't pay its debt (yesterday or sooner) - some 2 billion $.
In the meantime, the US are re-allocating fighters in Poland and the Baltic countries.
And yeah, Kiev won't recognize Crimea's referendum, neither will the EU or the US. Still, it will be carried out as scheduled.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 07, 2014 11:35 PM |
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another good caricature of the situation:
coincidentally I do own a few of the Russian military tops, like the bear in the pic is wearing. A tank top and a long sleeved one.
So according to "freedom" supporters logic I'm a Russian agent! snow yea!
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted March 07, 2014 11:53 PM |
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So, that picture is about the bear taking over all of the action?
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none of my business.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 08, 2014 08:22 PM |
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I guess that bear just had a feast in Syria...
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 04:41 AM |
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xerox said:
I guess that bear just had a feast in Syria...
Oh really?
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 09, 2014 08:25 AM |
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As amusing as those caricatures are, why do they show a blooded Syria door? Thanks to the "Bear", USA never got a chance to use the crisis there as an excuse to get rid of some weapons. As amusing as it was watching the americans fall to their own words and looking like fools, now there is a horrible civil war that affects thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians and the greater of all the involved evils is sure to win. An american intervention may have been for the best (except for the dictator's allies such as Russia). Even a Russian intervention on the government's side may have been preferable to the civil war and just put a quick end to the war.
A good thing that comes out of this Crimea thing for my nation is that now the debate is alive about the swedish military defense. Everyone here knows how Russia could just steamroll the swedish military in a surprise invasion. But the politicians have felt too safe since the end of the cold war and with cooperative Nato nations nearby so they have slowly decreased the size and readiness of the military since the end of the cold war. Now that they know that the only potential threat is actually capable of invading other countries, no doubt there is going to be pressure to increase fundings and size of the military and hopefully it even becomes a big thing for this year's election. Being a pacifist nation that has not been in any actual war for 200 years is nice and all but if you want to keep your neutrality AND security, you have to have a respectable military.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 09, 2014 08:54 AM |
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Quote:
As amusing as it was watching the americans fall to their own words and looking like fools, now there is a horrible civil war that affects thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians and the greater of all the involved evils is sure to win. An american intervention may have been for the best (except for the dictator's allies such as Russia).
And since when is El Kaide militants who chop war prisoners' heads off while chanting a prayer is a better alternative for anything? They are worse actually, because they can turn on anyone who differs even slightly from them ideologically and that would be every one.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 09, 2014 09:10 AM |
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GunFred said:
about the swedish military defense.
Teh what? 
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Zenofex
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Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2014 09:54 AM |
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Quote:
Thanks to the "Bear", USA never got a chance to use the crisis there as an excuse to get rid of some weapons.
Except maybe the suspicion that the US actually does supply weapons to the rebels. Maybe not chemical weapons but conventional? Not unlikely at all.
Quote:
A good thing that comes out of this Crimea thing for my nation is that now the debate is alive about the swedish military defense. Everyone here knows how Russia could just steamroll the swedish military in a surprise invasion. But the politicians have felt too safe since the end of the cold war and with cooperative Nato nations nearby so they have slowly decreased the size and readiness of the military since the end of the cold war. Now that they know that the only potential threat is actually capable of invading other countries, no doubt there is going to be pressure to increase fundings and size of the military and hopefully it even becomes a big thing for this year's election. Being a pacifist nation that has not been in any actual war for 200 years is nice and all but if you want to keep your neutrality AND security, you have to have a respectable military.
It looks like Putin's manoeuvres have actually resulted in some Cold War-style paranoia in the west then. You are probably aware that no kind if military preparations can prevent Russia from steamrolling Sweden if it wanted to, the gap between what they have and what you have is... huge, to say the least. However, you may not be a NATO member but Norway is, as are all countries south of you - i.e. it's quite foolish to think that the Russians will suddenly decide to make a steamrolling exercise on your territory (Sweden of all countries? What the hell for?). Then again, at least some of the top-ranking people in Poland seem to think that Ivan may come for their heads again so it's not only you.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 09, 2014 09:58 AM |
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You don't quite know the situation in and around Sweden Zeno, it's one of the most high tech arms industry countries with a VERY defendable archipelago at their shore line. Simply put, if they field a decent army, Russia would have to nuke them or steamroll Finland first.
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Zenofex
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Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2014 10:15 AM |
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That's the thing, they have to cross Finland first (which they can) and then invade, at which point they can afford to lose much more troops than Sweden and still win (the Russian military doctrines have never really cared much about life preservation). There are multiple problems with that though:
Why would the Russians want to invade Finland AND Sweden in the first place (in the foreseeable future at least)?
Why would they risk fighting with their sides turned to multiple NATO countries?
Why would they start an offensive war while their positions in the entire Northern/Eastern/Southern Europe are putting it in a default defensive across its own mainland?
Why would the Russians will be that stupid to isolate themselves completely following an unprovoked aggression (can't really fathom Sweden provoking anything).
... and so on.
Of course, any country's defense is nothing to be neglected but in the lights of the current situation, an eventual fear from Russia starting any kind of military actions outside Ukraine is laughable (and even in Ukraine it will not cross certain borders).
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 09, 2014 10:38 AM |
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Edited by kipshasz at 10:39, 09 Mar 2014.
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in a war scenario, Russia would take the buffer zone that is the Baltics and pooland first. then the rest.
nd the master negro then be all like:
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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