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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 02, 2014 02:48 PM |
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nah, it's much more simple than that.
The owners of the chicken farm complexes needed cash for a fancy new lexus or to finish a villa on the lakeside, and what's the easiest way for profit? exploiting your customers in the eve of a holiday!
and the people were swayed to join with a "refferendum" here, in which you votes, you get a sticker, and if you go to a store with it, you'll get beer and washing powder for a few pennies! Hooray!
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 02, 2014 03:16 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 15:19, 02 Mar 2014.
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I am currently so snowing pleased that my active reserve time ended two months and two days ago or I'd be in the fricking woods right now.
Personally I hope the ukrainians kick the russians out of their land in krim(ironically it was part of russia until hrutsov gave it to ukraine during the soviet union in the 60s) and get their ass handed to them by the retaliating southern army district. It would solve SO many problems for Finland and totally alienate russia from the west.
It would just end up with a pile of refugees and dead people no one wants.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2014 03:29 PM |
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Baklava said:
Speaking of animal rights in the Western world.
The EU's not going to impose those over there, is it. There is nothing near this kind of animal cruelty in countries that still go for traditional farms.
Just watched that entire documentary. It's stuff that I knew mostly, and it's enraging. It's come to the point where you can not even plant your own crops because you risk going to jail. You can't even protest against a company's products because they can sue you. The Law protects those companies instead of protecting the right of free speech, just incredible.
And people here DARE praise such a system?! I just hope they get one.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 02, 2014 03:53 PM |
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Meanwhile, at the current world capital of bad ideas
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 02, 2014 04:06 PM |
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@ Bak
Just read that myself. I also saw the BBC's 2 maps showing that where Russian is mostly spoken, those folks want their man back; where the own national language rules...they want their man kept in power.
Seems like another "Necessary-Divide" is coming to the world.
(if we can trust the news)
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 02, 2014 04:14 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 16:17, 02 Mar 2014.
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Yeah, that's what I meant when I said I was lucky to be off active reserve. When someone that close mobilized a million soldiers, there's no way I'd not have been called up to duty.
I'd wager the guys one year younger than me just got their calls 10am this morning. 
But yeah, Ukraine had to do that. You can't just let armed troops lay siege on your own military bases and airports.
I bet they're wishing they had their nukes back instead of that independece guarantee paper signed by the Russia, USA and UK.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 02, 2014 04:22 PM |
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Hehey, Markkur, what's up?
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted March 02, 2014 05:45 PM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 17:47, 02 Mar 2014.
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Stevie said:
@Vokial: I could've swore you were from Romania. That's the exact situation we were in. I still remember one news report about vegetables and fruits, they said they have to have a certain size and shape to fill packaging and EU standards. And they threw away the rest even if they were good. How do you react at something like that?
I feel the same when Kip is posting about Lithuania.
And what you are talking about, the vegetables and the fruits, same happened here too. It was few years ago. I remember a pile of cucumbers higher then myself banned from the market, for the shapes of the vegetables weren't exactly as the EU standard. They sold it to some pig handler when I asked about that. He probably fed his pigs with them. It's pity I know.
However, I'll stop here, this thread is about Ukraine.
Quote:
Vokial: No, you're in the EU because your government(s) requested getting into the EU. It's not like you were annexed by Brussels.
... nah. Forget about it. You are wrong. But this isn't the thread. Alright, ok. It was the oligarchy.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 02, 2014 05:52 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said I was lucky to be off active reserve. When someone that close mobilized a million soldiers, there's no way I'd not have been called up to duty.
I'd wager the guys one year younger than me just got their calls 10am this morning.
quote]
The more finnish soldiers, the better. As you know, you guys are Sweden's meatshield against Russia.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 02, 2014 11:17 PM |
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Edited by Baklava at 02:36, 03 Mar 2014.
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Heh.
EDIT
I see Kip already posted this one in the Random Thoughts thread. Replaced with his version since it's smaller.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2014 01:04 AM |
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You do know that Russia is invading Ukraine, not America, right?
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2014 01:12 AM |
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What? It was wrong to prevent more ethnic cleansing in the Balkans? -.-
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 03, 2014 01:36 AM |
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xerox said:
What? It was wrong to prevent more ethnic cleansing in the Balkans? -.-
the yanks caused it in the first place, so they could have something to bomb the snow out of them.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 03, 2014 02:27 AM |
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Edited by Baklava at 02:31, 03 Mar 2014.
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@Xerox
Quote:
What? It was wrong to prevent more ethnic cleansing in the Balkans? -.-
A few pages ago, you said you don't know much about this issue. Now you're taking this stuff for granted, with this much certainty? The Western bloc preventing ethnic cleansing in the Balkans?
I wrote a bunch of posts on that topic and why what you just said is wrong in several threads, such as the West arming the separatists and openly supporting them, and ethnic cleansing continuing well after the international peacekeepers got "control" of things, but this is not the place to do it again.
At least the Russians are intervening in favour of Ukrainian Russians here. As I always told Elodin, you sound like the kind of guy that, had he been born in Russia, would've considered their wars right, and the Western ones wrong. Don't be that guy. There is nothing more horrid than young people believing any war after WW2 is justified.
You need to doubt more.
@MVass
Technically, Russia's rather simply preparing for a kind of police action in the half of Ukraine where it holds military bases and where the Russians are the majority, after the country's democratically elected pro-Russian president (who may or may not have been a piece of ****) has been forcefully ousted from the country by what started out as a peaceful protest but then turned into a full-blown, rioting, petrol-bomb-throwing extravaganza, very much supported by the Western bloc. As is the case with Syria, only harsher, since Yanukovych apparently either couldn't bring himself to accept a wholesale civil war with which he was more or less openly threatened with, or didn't command sufficient loyalty in the army.
But, yeah, had the civil war happened, we have every reason to believe that what had begun as pro-EU elements, logically sinking deeper and deeper into nationalist extremism (as can be seen from that RT article, for instance), would've been cultivated, supported and armed by the United States. It's how they work. Divide and conquer. That way their hands are clean, no important lives are lost (meaning Western ones), and the cost is optimally low with potentially high profits of a strategically important puppet government.
Believe it or not, it's ridiculous to me to be on the side that sounds like it's defending authoritarian regimes and Chinese or Russian military action. Since pro-Russian sentiment is strong among a lot of people where I'm from, I usually tend to argue the exact opposite with them.
It's simply a matter of reason, common sense and balance. I've more or less detached myself from personal sentiment and taking sides here and am looking at all this bullshyte from a largely neutral point of view. Most of you guys, from what I've seen, either passionately despise the US or are in love with it. I hate neither Russia nor the US, nor do I support either of them. They give exactly 0 shytes about me, as well, and had I been at the wrong place at the wrong time, I would more than likely have been collateral damage in whatever power struggle by now. The only question being whether I'd be among the 70 civilian casualties they'd admit on their news that day, or among the 250 they'd hide.
If you're next to Russia, you're Russia's courtyard. Except if you're Finland. Simple as that. You're in their zone of interest and influence by default, and any temptations by the West, such as the ones given to Georgia, are going to get you ****ed. NATO won't shelter you, and missile shields are not going to get built. You'll get run over while the West waves its finger angrily at the Bear.
As horrendous as it may sound, the Russians have been on the defensive since the dissolution of the Union. They're not the aggressive superpower they've been, they're merely clinging on to their possessions. To expect them to voluntarily discard their buffer states in order for them to join the NATO and build missile shields and rival bases is commendably idealistic, but hardly about to happen anytime in the next millennium.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 03, 2014 02:54 AM |
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Predicting the next thousand years? Isnt it a little over the top even for a true believer like you
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 03, 2014 03:16 AM |
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It is our will that this state shall endure for a thousand years. We are happy to know that the future is ours entirely.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 03, 2014 04:10 AM |
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Zenofex said:
Russia doesn't "expand" like the US does, nor it's its purpose to do so at the moment. For the last decade the focus has been on stopping the "democratic push" toward its borders which always comes with missile shields and NATO bases closer to Russia's European mainland. Strategically the whole story has nothing to do with who likes democracy and who doesn't, it's a geopolitical thing with mostly military considerations - which usually trample all sorts of ideology on state level no matter where you live. Since the collapse of the USSR, Russia has been on the defensive and still is. When the pro-Western governments around its borders are removed, then some sort of expansion may start but it still won't be like the US one. Different priorities.
Here's the rub: those 25+ million people within the country that supported the ousting of the last Ukrainian president weren't all CIA agents. Only 75% of them were.
What you call a "democratic push" is really just human beings deciding what they do and don't want. The most obvious explanation is, more often than not, also the correct explanation: Ukraine is leaning more towards the EU than with Russia, and one can hardly blame them.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 03, 2014 07:45 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 07:46, 03 Mar 2014.
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You normally sound like a reasonable guy, where did that naive pathos come from? Even if the entire Ukraine wants to join the EU (and it doesn't, try not to forget that), that changes nothing, Russia still considers it another attempt to expand the Western social and military presence in a region that it considers it's own. The EU membership for former Eastern bloc countries always means NATO membership as well and now we are talking about a major former USSR country. Putin might be all kinds of bad things but he's not an idiot. If you look at the map, you will notice that Ukraine is near a sea (where Russia has always had considerably military presence by the way) and that its northern border is some 500 km away from Moscow. In Kremlin language that means potentially hostile troops and missiles stationed one spit away from the capital. This might be a bit hard to swallow, given that you live comfortably far away, so imagine for example Russian bases and missiles near some of the Great Lakes. Or in Cuba. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2014 08:46 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 08:49, 03 Mar 2014.
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Something miiiiiiiight actually be done against this imperialism.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/us-warns-russia-isolation-over-ukraine-20143213512586775.html said:
Kerry also said that Moscow risked losing its place among the prestigious Group of 8 (G8) developed nations and could end isolated over its deployment of troops in its neighbour.
US weighs up sanctions on Russia over Ukraine
"They're [G8 countries] prepared to put sanctions in place, they're prepared to isolate Russia economically, the ruble is already going down. Russia has major economic challenges," Kerry said, as he also mentioned visa bans, asset freezes and trade isolation as possible steps.
On Sunday, the other countries in the G8, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US issued a statement condeming Russia's actions.
"We note that Russia’s actions in Ukraine also contravene the principles and values on which the G7 and the G8 operate," the statement said.
"As such, we have decided for the time being to suspend our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G-8 Summit Sochi in June, until the environment comes back where the G8 is able to have meaningful discussion.
(also, please don't use Russia Today which a five year old can see is incredibly biased.
It ain't even descreet, it is an outright creation of the Russian government to improve its image abroad.)
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 03, 2014 09:01 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:18, 03 Mar 2014.
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Kerry is supposed to throw random threats of course, every US secretary of state in his shoes would act like they actually mean business. Truth is, there isn't much behind such a threat that Putin can't get over with, you can easily see it in the collective EU mumbling about the whole crisis. Only NATO tries to look intimidating but that's what a military organization is supposed to do. They won't do crap in practice though.
Meanwhile, the Ukrainian navy commander switched sides.
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This thread is pages long: 
