|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
posted April 01, 2014 12:06 PM |
|
Edited by ihor at 12:09, 01 Apr 2014.
|
@Aron,
1) How do you know that those are aiming into the ground?
2) Are you aware that not all of the protesters were killed by snipers? There were wounds from AK-47 bullets, shotgun bullets and grenades.
3) What are these guys with yellow armbands doing there with firearms? It is illegal to utilize firearms against crowds during riots. There are rubber bullets and tear gas for this.
If these guys had yellow armbands, I don't see any point why other snipers who killed protesters are hired by maidan.
@kipshasz
If you would be a berkut sniper, you would obey to the orders. And if you would be a clever berkut commander, you wouldn't ask to kill the leaders because of the reasons veco mentioned.
I decisively want all the snipers and their commanders to be found and arrested. It does not matter who hired them, they must be punished. But actually as of now I don't see any single evidence that they were hired by maidan. If all the information from SBU is now in Moscow, then Russians would definitely publish this.
As for Udar in the government.
Well that is quiet ingenious move, I think. Current state of our economy is just terrible and the actions by the new government will be unpopular. So the critics will be mostly against Tymoshenko's party and Svoboda. After the May's presidential elections, the government will be reformatted so Udar might be very good then.
The problem of Yanukovych is he is now completely dependent on Putin. There will eventually be some time when Russia doesn't need Yanukovych any more, which might be the end for him.
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 12:12 PM |
|
|
I'm not the kind who obeys orders.
one of the reasons I was declined from the army was that I said "if we were ordered to surrender by our officers, I'd slit their traitorous throats and continue on fighting".
obviously those snipers were hired by those in power now. soon some of those will start ratting out and then will all mysteriously "disappear". gives work to the guys of the special services.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 12:32 PM |
|
Edited by Aron at 12:35, 01 Apr 2014.
|
1 Cause their rifles are aimed at the ground?
2 I have no idea. The mass casualties reported were from the snipers on the roof though. That everyone agrees on.
3 Illegal by what or whose definition? If someone fires at you, you can fire back.
Anyway I deeply dislike the idea of rubber bullets, water canons and worse these new microwave weapons being developed. Tazers too.
Look at how recklessly police use them, as if they were legitimate.
I'm of the opinion that you should allow your citizens to express their views and occupy public squares and what not.
Now if you absolutely have to get rid of them for some reason or if they are storming the government building and you believe they are a big minority then shoot them. If you're wrong you'll hang.
I think these less than lethal weapons diminish human dignity and give the state a weapon to use which it can claim does not kill and so is not a big issue. In fact it is. Spraying your people with water canons, contanining them like cattle, tazing them like cattle. This is worse to me. Either you listen to your people, you resign before your people or you fight them with your supporters. All else is rubbish.
____________
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 01:47 PM |
|
Edited by kipshasz at 13:51, 01 Apr 2014.
|
Aron said:
Either you listen to your people, you resign before your people or you fight them with your supporters. All else is rubbish.
common sense. politicians have absolut zero of it.
If Ukrainians revolt against the bandit goverment, same countermeasures would be deployed, I guarantee it.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 02:07 PM |
|
Edited by Aron at 14:07, 01 Apr 2014.
|
As if they do anywhere else?
They've sat way to comfortably for way too long and they have have grown much too accustomed to their privileges. But it's the peopels fault, the people grow complacent when things go well. And so their movements get hollowed out.
I don't pity the people of Ukraine too much. But it is hard to form a serious opinion about anything when you're forced to work for 8-9 hours a day for little money while those who oppose you and their puppeteers "work" 8-9 hours with constructing policies against you over lunches that your tax-money payed for.
____________
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 02:18 PM |
|
|
1. The Instytutska street has some slope. Protesters were at the bottom of this slope, while the guys with yellow armbands at top. That's why they were shooting down. I personally was at that place, when I was in Kyiv during peaceful times.
3. The order of the former interior minister to use firearms was given right after the video that I posted leaked into the internet. Before that they were denying usage of firearms, nevertheless plenty of bullets and cartridges were found earlier. So this is even more difficult question who started using firearms first.
Quote:
Either you listen to your people, you resign before your people or you fight them with your supporters. All else is rubbish.
Golden words.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 06:48 PM |
|
Edited by Aron at 18:58, 01 Apr 2014.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2014 10:44 PM |
|
|
Ahh, Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. Never-dying classic. I watched that adaptation with Hugh Jackman and Russel Crowe in the cinema last year.  I like how you're trying to compare it, although I wouldn't totally agree with it.
|
|
seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 02, 2014 03:14 AM |
|
Edited by seraphim at 03:14, 02 Apr 2014.
|
The best way to disperse of protesters is:
If they wont stop, you can always run over them like in GTA. Or my favorie:
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2014 04:12 AM |
|
|
lol that US terminator tank is awesome.
Was that a picture of Hungary or?
The saddest day in modern human history IMO was the almost parallell crushing of the Prague Spring and the student revolts in Paris 1968. To me it illustrates that it really doesn't matter what you call your system but only whose running it.
The kids on both sides wanted pretty much the same reforms. In the west they were called communists in the east they were called capitalists 
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2014 04:14 AM |
|
|
ihor said:
Ahh, Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. Never-dying classic. I watched that adaptation with Hugh Jackman and Russel Crowe in the cinema last year. I like how you're trying to compare it, although I wouldn't totally agree with it.
Have you seen the musical? It looks great IMO.
Not many good musicals where I live :/
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 06, 2014 01:09 PM |
|
|
Yes, I liked the musical as well
So there was a press conference of prosecutor general, interior minister and SBU lead on Thursday.
The way they did that brought some part of distrust as they did not told us everything as some of the information is investigation secret and something is still unknown. Anyway some interesting facts they stated:
1) The guys with yellow armbands were from Berkut, 17 of them arrested, many escaped to Crimea and hiding there.
2) Based on ballistic expertises 80% of casualties died of AK47 bullets. Most of them from 3 different AK47 rifles.
3) They determined there was a cooperation between SBU and Russian FSB and demanded Russia to state what were their objectives. Russia already responded that FSB general only controlled security of their embassy.
4) They said they found a relationship between armed supporters of Yanukovych and one of the party of regions MP.
5) Whole operation was launched by Yanukovych and controlled by former SBU head and former interior minisrer. All of them are hiding in Russia now.
They didn't provide any evidences now and stated they continue working on that so it is still the case for everybody whether to believe in that or not. Also some civic organizations also trying to investigate the truth. Hope next time we'll get more info.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 12:44 PM |
|
|
|
Donetsk just declared independence, parliament voted, Russian hymn playing on the main square. snow just got serious, again.
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 12:47 PM |
|
|
|
snow, I hoped everything would calm down on the Crimea checkpoint. I don't like the smell of war in the morning.
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 01:11 PM |
|
|
Time for a Soviet Reunion I guess.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 01:29 PM |
|
|
|
Fun and snow in one bottle.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 01:33 PM |
|
|
http://m.ustream.tv/channel/artem77
If you want the stream.
IMO it's kinda sad. Going to Russia may help because it's slightly better to live there but they should've tried to solve their economic and social issues together. Almost everyone who has been in a war regrets it.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 01:45 PM |
|
|
|
Not really unexpected but it might get quite serious now...
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 02:20 PM |
|
|
|
I doubt Putin will decide to go for Donetsk now, too risky. And without Russian army those separatists are doomed IMHO. But that is if Ukraine's government will act wisely and not give in the federalization stuff which is actually a time bomb.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 07, 2014 02:35 PM |
|
|
|
It's a time bomb for sure but on the other hand there is no chance to return to the state of affairs prior to the events in February. In any case, if Timoshenko or some radical boy gets the power, everything can go to hell pretty quickly.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
