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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 28, 2016 05:46 PM |
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Opponent flees.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted April 28, 2016 05:53 PM |
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I guess such restrictions will come at a later patch 
Btw, Elvin, do you know the state of the game polish? Is it really as good as they say it is?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 28, 2016 05:59 PM |
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well you can call me interested I guess. Not excited but I'll keep an eye on this.
Storm-Giant said:
That's an upgrade from base game...
What happens if you get both GM Offense and Defense?
No developer in their right mind would keep those effects as they are.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted April 28, 2016 06:05 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 11:30, 03 May 2016.
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Nobody speaks of exact copying of h5 skillwheel but why make it inferior?
They are dumbing down game with each iteration. I imagine h10 will look like the iOS game - might & magic : clash of heroes . We are slowly getting there, hold on!
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted April 28, 2016 06:38 PM |
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Edited by Zeki at 18:48, 28 Apr 2016.
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Sounds great to me Should the game be ok bug-wise i think i'll buy it, together with lizzie's and galaad's mod i think this game might become kinda good which is enough for a filthy casual as myself 
Edit Forgot the bad ai lol, that ofcourse still is a problem
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 28, 2016 06:54 PM |
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Still no faction unique perks and no cross-skill synergy perks is a weakness compared to H5 system, but it's definitely a big step in the right direction.
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Matt1818
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 28, 2016 06:59 PM |
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The new random system looks interesting enough to warrant giving the game another shot when it's implemented. It's hard to tell by reading the description how similar it is to Heroes 5. Personally I wouldn't care if they copied Heroes 5's skill system exactly, if it resulted in a fun game. I just want the game to be enjoyable finally.
Forgive me for not knowing, but I never used the random system because it was clearly thrown together and the skill system was not designed for random skills. But were there seriously never weighted chances for different skills to show up based on hero class? That's something that has been in the series since Heroes 2 - or Heroes 1 if you include primary skills. That should have been a blindingly obvious basic feature to include in any random skill system. I mean at least they figured it out and are implementing it now, but wow. It's hard to believe they could overlook that.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted April 28, 2016 07:07 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 19:10, 28 Apr 2016.
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Something, what I should post long ago but I waited until more info about random skills will be posted (which is today):
Avonu said:
Hermes said:
Overall I find the magic to be spot on, and the skill system is the best I seen so far in Heroes.
I am going to quote this about half year after H7 release - we wil see, what you will say then.
And how are you thoughts about this today, Hermes? Do you still belive in what you post more then (half) year ago?
I'm just curious, nothing more. Mind you, this Heroes 7 system will stil be in game, if you won't like to play with random skills:
Quote:
Free skilling is still an option, however it will maintain the original 10 static pool.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted April 28, 2016 07:12 PM |
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted April 28, 2016 07:26 PM |
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To be honest, i do wonder if cross skill abilities or passives are still somehow possible even through modding... Although i guess the best one can hope is:
If class=warmonger and skill1=light magic + skill2=Offence then grant passive1= +15% Morale the first 3 combat rounds
And so on more permanent passives will be added as "hero specialization" when a hero learns specific skills.
Of course this will lead to heroes ending up OP like they did in Heroes IV, so i guess such combinations should be very specific. On this way though, people will keep trying to find those combinations, which was true in heroes V as well...
Unless, depending on what skills the hero has, any combination of skills can grant him a passive but the hero can only choose 3 to have active at any time. Weather those 3 active cross skill passives will be able to be changed freely or for a price is up for debate.
What do you think on this idea? Too much? Too utopian?
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted April 28, 2016 07:51 PM |
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Darkem said:
Quote:
There are much worse things than a hamster in Fortress faction.
That's scary... Could you elaborate?
Well, don't you remember lamasu, from Heroes VI, which many people complained about? It is in Heroes VII.
Or the fact the Necro townscreen, heroes and even units are decorated with spiders, to show their obsession?
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 28, 2016 07:53 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
GenyaArikado said:
last time i asked it was the same case in the old universe (well, warlocks instead wizards)
Yeah, orcs, goblins, lizardmen, gnolls, ogres, cyclops were all created by warlocks....
Idk if they were (as i said, i asked, here) but iirc nagas, medusas, minotaurs, manticores, beholders and harpies were.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted April 28, 2016 08:01 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 20:05, 28 Apr 2016.
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Ekhm...
Quote:
Wizards often summon magical beasts to protect treasures and sacred sites. Only the most powerful are capable of calling and controlling guardians as powerful as the Naga. Possessed of great strength, skill and patience, Nagas make perfect protectors.
Minotaur, Evil Eye, Manticore and Hydra are indeed Warlocks' creation. IIRC there is no info about origin of Harpy or Medusa.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted April 28, 2016 08:03 PM |
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Edited by Articun at 20:05, 28 Apr 2016.
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Not Nagas and neither Manticores. Lamassu were and they couldn't live because they were of the first experiments that's why they were used by undead.
The Nagas are the children of Shalassa so they are an original race in Ashan and Medusae are the darker version of the Naga priestesses that worship the darker version of Shalassa as the wercker and also the dark magic dragon.
Manticores were the result of the Dragon Nexus on the other hand, an unfortunate mixture of lions with scorpions and whatnot, so a magical beast but not a created one per se.
EDIT: Sorry didn't see the old universe part
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vitirr
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2016 09:07 PM |
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I think the new skill system is pretty decent, not great but good enough. I actually prefer it to the extremely complex IMO H5 skill system (yea I know, heresy). Especially without the skill wheel, which never had officially by the way. I mean the system itself, not the skills.
Related things that would still need to change:
- Magic system. 7 magic schools is still nonesense and an unnecessary burdern for the game. Group them and make them more focused (gameplay focused not lore focused).
- Remove classes. If 6 classes per faction was completely unnecesary, now that class doesn't dictate your potential skills anymore (there are still the weights but it is not so drastic) there will be much more overlapping. 2 classes per faction thank you.
- Boost skills and abilities synergies, add some prerequisites and restrictions. Hopefully not to the complexity level of H5 but some of it would make it more interesting.
- Group the governor abilities into a (how original) governor skill.
- A minimal balance.
Two things that I'm concerned about it though. I hope they didn't make the system too easy to "drive". There were voices among the VIPs who practically wanted a free picking system into the random system. I hope they didn't chose that way, but at the same time I hope it is not too difficult to level up a skill of your choice. Obviously this will be harder to achieve than in H3, a system that worked as a charm but didn't have the hassle of abilities on top of skills.
On the other hand, if they kept the same interface than the version VIPs could test I find it terrible. Instead of using the skill wheel as interface they just show you the skills/abilities to choose with no reference whatsoever. So you should remember all your previous choices and the composition of each skill.
Back in time to H5 without skill wheel (thankfully with a simpler system though).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 28, 2016 10:21 PM |
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I have always pictured how the UI for the skillwheel could be like:
- Always show your hero's skillwheel when leveling-up/spending skill points.
- Researched skills/perks are coloured. Not researched are greyed out. For each level-up (random system), all the possible choices are highlighted.
This way, when you are leveling-up, you know what skills & perks you have, and what you can get so you can plan ahead. You have the information all the time, so whatever choices you make won't be hindered by forgetting what skills/perks you'd chosen before, or what you're aiming for.
Using the same 'window' display for the skill system than of the hero's page is a bonus too. Goes without saying that the skillwheel window should be fullscreen, not reduced in size because of unnecessary, silly stuff such as the minimap...
PS: Cross-skill prerequisites can be good if not abused, used mainly for balance purpouses (like very strong tier 3 perks).
And yes, having no in-game skillwheel sucked donkey balls in H5.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 28, 2016 10:43 PM |
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That sounds like a good system, Storm. And for new skills, they could just show a highlighted choice on an empty skill slot and if you don't pick it, it's gone (until the game offers it again).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 28, 2016 11:04 PM |
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For new skills I see two options:
- H5 style: for each hero (class), all possible skills are showed on the wheel, but once x number is reach (6 in H5) you can't research any more.
- H7 style: your wheel is divided in x slots (10 in H7) with whatever skills your hero start. If a new skill pops up during level-up, then it is inserted into the wheel - but it'll only remain if you "research" it, of course.
Edit: I see you've said the same I did now, lol :[
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted April 28, 2016 11:09 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Well, don't you remember lamasu, from Heroes VI, which many people complained about? It is in Heroes VII.
Or the fact the Necro townscreen, heroes and even units are decorated with spiders, to show their obsession?
"many people" = 20 persons from HC. The rest of the fan base didn't have a problem. the lamasu is actually one of my favorites and the spider theme is not annoying at all. and no i'm not a troll. although i could get burned at the HC square saying those things here but what the hell
and lets not forget that anyone who doesn't like the mouse, can mod it with another unit and that's it. we don't have to say the same things over and over and over again.
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vitirr
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2016 11:34 PM |
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I was thinking the same about using the skill wheel UI as level up screen. However they managed to make the skill wheel confusing enough so that it was really hard to know which skills / abilities you hero had already learnt and which not. Imagine throwing available new skills into the ecuation
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
