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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 15, 2016 09:05 AM |
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It's both JJ, they miss the mechanics AND the heart/soul. There is nothing left.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 15, 2016 09:42 AM |
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Well, yes, but the thing about missing the mechanics is what I - and others - have been telling them for years now.
What I'm just asking wondering right now is whether trying to force their lore onto the franchise isn't an even bigger blunder, when you really think about what the fascination for this game was all about.
The more I think about, the more I realize that the real strength of the HoMM series has always been the fact that the game was a perfect vehicle to tell all the fantasy stories you could think of, no matter the setting - and that was possible because of
a) the easy-to-use and flexible editors
b) the plethora of game objects - diversity, as it was called in the video
c) the archetypical way everything was delivered.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 15, 2016 10:02 AM |
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I agree it is part of it but I think is more than this. It all starts with the atmosphere, the visual aura and sounds from the NWC games contributed a lot, then ultimately mechanics were simple to learn yet with sufficient depth to keep people playing.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 15, 2016 10:06 AM |
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And then came the vampires that were actually spidergoo-addicted liches aging in reverse. Maybe that's why liches were forbidden from having a skeletal appearance by the lore. Before the Year of the Great Fanrage..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 15, 2016 10:39 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
No, the problem seems to be that they didn't grasp the HEART of the game, and the heart of the game is that it would spur and inspire the imagination of the players to discover and develop their own stories - that's what made the use of simple Devils and Angels and Dragons and Titans and Vampires and whatnot so gratifying: because they were still archetypical enough - just as well as the heroes - to serve as building blocks and fuel for your own imagination.
Yes, the whole Ashan thing seems to be a desperate grasp at being modern and contemporary - more WoW like, etc. But the whole charm of the original heroes games were that they were founded in a completely different atmosphere. They were rooted in the universal fairytale Universe that we know from our childhood, with universal creatures like unicorns, vampires, dragons and elves. And yes, it was totally cliche and un-cool, and that was the charm of it. For every convoluted twist of lore with liches drinking namtaru venom and turning into vampires and I know not what, they take the game away from that basis, and it becomes less charming for it. It might be more cool and it might be more contemporary, but chances are people will just go play WoW, if that's what they're looking for.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 15, 2016 11:57 AM |
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted June 15, 2016 01:36 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 13:37, 15 Jun 2016.
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JollyJoker said:
No, the problem seems to be that they didn't grasp the HEART of the game, and the heart of the game is that it would spur and inspire the imagination of the players to discover and develop their own stories - that's what made the use of simple Devils and Angels and Dragons and Titans and Vampires and whatnot so gratifying: because they were still archetypical enough - just as well as the heroes - to serve as building blocks and fuel for your own imagination.
i have been saying this for years.
how the hell does ubi not get it?
^
serious question for the VIPs
____________
yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 15, 2016 01:37 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 15, 2016 02:52 PM |
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yogi said:
JollyJoker said:
No, the problem seems to be that they didn't grasp the HEART of the game, and the heart of the game is that it would spur and inspire the imagination of the players to discover and develop their own stories - that's what made the use of simple Devils and Angels and Dragons and Titans and Vampires and whatnot so gratifying: because they were still archetypical enough - just as well as the heroes - to serve as building blocks and fuel for your own imagination.
i have been saying this for years.
how the hell does ubi not get it?
^
serious question for the VIPs
I think, they wanted it EPIC!!!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 15, 2016 03:33 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I know really well who targeted audience of UbiHeroes/H7 is. It is me.
Never mind if speaking about gameplay, story or graphics.
It is the game made for me.
Yeah, and as you can see, that worked really well. New sales records, critically acclaimed with overwhelmingly positive reception, it won the Game of the Year and Best Game of all Times Awards, brilliantly marking the anniversary and giving a new breath of life to the genre. They really outdid themselves with that opus. 
.......................
Yeah no, we know the truth and is faar to be Unicorn-land.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted June 15, 2016 03:33 PM |
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It has become epic somehow. The kind of epic no one wants to remember, something like the Dark Ages.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 15, 2016 03:41 PM |
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 15, 2016 03:46 PM |
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M&M needs a ICONIC hat or something to start selling well.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 15, 2016 04:33 PM |
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Galaad said:
Antalyan said:
I know really well who targeted audience of UbiHeroes/H7 is. It is me.
Never mind if speaking about gameplay, story or graphics.
It is the game made for me.
Yeah, and as you can see, that worked really well. New sales records, critically acclaimed with overwhelmingly positive reception, it won the Game of the Year and Best Game of all Times Awards, brilliantly marking the anniversary and giving a new breath of life to the genre. They really outdid themselves with that opus.
.......................
Yeah no, we know the truth and is faar to be Unicorn-land.
One big step for antalyan, one small step for humanity
Tbh I'm glad some at least are satisfied. But the economy does not favour products that fail to satisfy the majority. Good for you, not so good for many others.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 15, 2016 04:38 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I think, they wanted it EPIC!!!
the biggest lie ever told. not limited to Ubi even.
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Adilmaru
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 15, 2016 04:52 PM |
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alcibiades said:
JollyJoker said:
No, the problem seems to be that they didn't grasp the HEART of the game, and the heart of the game is that it would spur and inspire the imagination of the players to discover and develop their own stories - that's what made the use of simple Devils and Angels and Dragons and Titans and Vampires and whatnot so gratifying: because they were still archetypical enough - just as well as the heroes - to serve as building blocks and fuel for your own imagination.
Yes, the whole Ashan thing seems to be a desperate grasp at being modern and contemporary - more WoW like, etc. But the whole charm of the original heroes games were that they were founded in a completely different atmosphere. They were rooted in the universal fairytale Universe that we know from our childhood, with universal creatures like unicorns, vampires, dragons and elves. And yes, it was totally cliche and un-cool, and that was the charm of it. For every convoluted twist of lore with liches drinking namtaru venom and turning into vampires and I know not what, they take the game away from that basis, and it becomes less charming for it. It might be more cool and it might be more contemporary, but chances are people will just go play WoW, if that's what they're looking for.
Do you realize that you are in the first few sentences bashing copying and unoriginality, while later you are saying how HoMM was "cliche and un-cool" and it was charm of it? I...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 15, 2016 05:04 PM |
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It's another thing using popular mythology tropes and another to copy a popular franchise's style.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted June 15, 2016 05:56 PM |
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@Maurice, @JJ great posts, exactly how I feel about H7 (and H6 for that matter): heart -> no special feelings of wanting to come back since H5 (unfortunately) and mechanics -> I still recall the wonders mapmakers were able to do with H4 event scripting mechanic like your hero transforming into different units in a hardcore "survive a labyrinth" map. So basically a story could've been told with units alone...
Additionally about the heart: imo traditional mythical units seem to be more immersive to play with, then some 'X units' created by combining the power of dragon veins and a drunken mages bleach formula... Heroes III charm lies in its simplicity and cliche even  centaurs are a people, not half-demon mutants. Dragons are, well, dragons not a cloud of smoke and eyes etc
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 15, 2016 06:24 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 15, 2016 07:05 PM |
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Yes, it has a heart of Kandrakar and the elemental dragonspixies/W.I.T.C.H.-es of quintessence, fire, water, earth and air.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
