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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 23, 2016 07:33 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 19:35, 23 Jun 2016.
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*ahem*
wikipedia said:
Van Caneghem has stated in interview that the Might and Magic setting is inspired by his love for both science fiction and fantasy. He cites The Twilight Zone and the Star Trek episode For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky as having inspired Might and Magic lore.
Link.
Maybe this franchise isn't simply for all people.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 23, 2016 07:34 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
You haven't played the pre-ubi heroes, have you? If you have, point where H3 is influenced by sci-fi?
I played only H2 if you wish to know it (also read a lot about the other ones and even tried H3).
I am not speaking about H3 (btw. I have never told it is a bad game, unlike many people here saying it about H7, it is just a game not suitable for me) being influenced by these sci-fi elements but they are already in the world.
We are speaking only about the world, aren't we?
And the good world should keep one topic, one genre to be connected with.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 23, 2016 07:44 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 19:45, 23 Jun 2016.
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EnergyZ said:
*ahem*
wikipedia said:
Van Caneghem has stated in interview that the Might and Magic setting is inspired by his love for both science fiction and fantasy. He cites The Twilight Zone and the Star Trek episode For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky as having inspired Might and Magic lore.
Link.
Maybe this franchise isn't simply for all people.
I know about it. But (although I like Star Trek as well,) I like to see these elements have nothing to do with the games any more, except for their common history.
You can like the newer part of series but not its roots, can't you (I)? 
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 23, 2016 07:47 PM |
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Antalyan said:
And the good world should keep one topic, one genre to be connected with.
Now, tell me, where does it say that you cannot mix topics? Is there a manual, or law or anythig that forbids mixing topics?
Have you ever read Mistborn series? In there, there is a world (part of a much larger universe) that in the beginning is, in a way, classic fantasy world. And you know what happened? Time in that world passed and people discovered electricity, made guns, trains, etc... And the following books are planned to have space-travel mixed with it's fantasy base.
Now, by your arguments, that world sucks, because it is not purely fantasy. And that it is not. If you do not trust me, read the books.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 23, 2016 07:54 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 19:55, 23 Jun 2016.
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frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:
And the good world should keep one topic, one genre to be connected with.
Now, tell me, where does it say that you cannot mix topics? Is there a manual, or law or anythig that forbids mixing topics?
Have you ever read Mistborn series? In there, there is a world (part of a much larger universe) that in the beginning is, in a way, classic fantasy world. And you know what happened? Time in that world passed and people discovered electricity, made guns, trains, etc... And the following books are planned to have space-travel mixed with it's fantasy base.
Now, by your arguments, that world sucks, because it is not purely fantasy. And that it is not. If you do not trust me, read the books.
I have not read these books, sorry.
And I think sci-fi actually can work well together with fantasy. I just do not like to see it in Heroes series. I like them to be only fantasy but, as told before, it is just my personal opinion and preference, nothing more.
Everyone can agree with me or not.
I only answer you why I like Ashan and not the old world(s).
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 23, 2016 07:55 PM |
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Antalyan said:
And the good world should keep one topic, one genre to be connected with.
I would have to disagree with this. Whether a world is good or bad does not have anything to do with the number of genres. What it matters is their incorporation, and individual's taste - if one dislikes a genre, one will dislike the world just because of the unwanted elements, even though the world is well constructed. Correct me if I am wrong, but WarCraft combines both fantasy and sf elements, and it is a good world (even though I do not like what has WoW done to the lore). We can even go into other fields like literature, but even there you have the worlds, which belong to different genres, and I'm not restricting to just fantasy and sf. LOTR is a mixture of at least 7 genres, and yet it is not stopping it from becoming a good worlds. As I said, it is the implementation of the world/genre and the individual's taste that matters.
EDIT:
Antalyan said:
I only answer you why I like Ashan and not the old world(s).
I respect your opinion, but the only visible sf elements that I remember are dimensional gateways and the forge town that was cancelled. Any other sf elements like cyborg angels and space aliens aka Kreegans were unnoticeable (if not unknown) if one had only played Heroes and not M&M games, like I did. The entire thing could be disregarded, which some people did, including myself. Not that I minded the truth about their origin, but I could just lived in my fantasy world unhindered, since in the games there was nothing to remind me of their sf origin. This is something that cannot be done with the new world - spider necropolis reminds in the shadow of a spider, since it is constantly put into your face, through hero, units, townscreen, etc. I think that it was JJ that mentioned that the old world was more elastic since it was archetypal enough to represent something, which could be interpreted differently by players, while the new world is just too specific, or at least too defined, if not even confined.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 23, 2016 07:58 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I have not read these books, sorry.
You should, they are great 
Antalyan said:
And I think sci-fi actually can work well together with fantasy. I just do not like to see it in Heroes series. I like them to be only fantasy but, as told before, it is just my personal opinion and preference, nothing more.
Everyone can agree with me or not.
I only answer you why I like Ashan and not the old world(s).
Fair enough
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 23, 2016 08:02 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I think, I've said it a couple of times, but imo Ashan isn't the problem; it's just a setting. It's simply that the story isn't well told, not the least problem here being the two journeys into what is actually old history (and well known). Going into the past ONCE - well, you can do that, obviously, especially after developing something like the "lore", but doing it twice was an unforgivable sin. Because there is no development; Ashan is on a standtstill.
There is no law against major changes in Ashan.
This makes sense and I agree with it, more or less.
Although I can enjoy H7's stories, what I dislike about them is that whole H7 game moves nowhere in the world's storyboard. There cannot be many surprises. We already know that Ivan will capture throne (yes, it could be predicted without it as well, but if you know it with certainty... I mean, in some superheroes films, you know they will probably save the world but it is different to someone would tell you they will, or the same with main protagonists falling in love with each other). Also the campaigns tell the stories of even the deepest past...
I would like to finally move forward to see what happens after Dark Messiah
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 23, 2016 08:08 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I would like to finally move forward to see what happens after Dark Messiah
We can agree on this one. 
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted June 23, 2016 08:09 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I would like to finally move forward to see what happens after Dark Messiah
Me too. I hope it is something revolutionary as well.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 23, 2016 08:10 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I would like to finally move forward to see what happens after Dark Messiah
We would all love that.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 23, 2016 08:10 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I would like to finally move forward to see what happens after Dark Messiah
Hopefully Ashan blows up to smithereens
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 23, 2016 08:18 PM |
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that will be difficult given there is no franchise left to move forward in lol
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 23, 2016 08:24 PM |
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I think it's safe to say that most people prefer heroes as a fantasy series. But then, it's not like heroes ever was anything else. The forge never happened and most people do not know the story of might&magic. I had played h1 to h4 before I even heard that might&magic featured technology. So.. does it even matter?
I do not care what race the kreegans are nor if the portals are a technological wonder of a more advanced civilization. What I did care about was Enroth and Antagarich.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 23, 2016 08:26 PM |
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I think, we all would like that. 
Well, except Ubisoft, it would seem.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 23, 2016 08:35 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 20:36, 23 Jun 2016.
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Elvin said:
The forge never happened and most people do not know the story of might&magic. I had played h1 to h4 before I even heard that might&magic featured technology. So.. does it even matter?
If it didn't matter, then there wouldn't be all those crazy death letters to JVC, NWC and co., for their attempt to make Forge come true.
But it shows how they did not let lore dictate everything.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 23, 2016 08:38 PM |
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That's not my point. The forge never happened. There were no direct references or clearly technological items. Someone playing just heroes would not be aware of it.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted June 23, 2016 09:08 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 21:42, 23 Jun 2016.
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A mix of fantasy and sci-fi was popular in the 80s
I'm not against it, though it was a shock when I learned about HoM&M lore.
Btw isn't the whole Void and Sandro concept in Ashan 'a bit' sci-fi?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 23, 2016 09:18 PM |
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Guys, the discussion makes not a lot of sense. Science Fiction is - Fantasy, too. Because the "science" is just PSEUDO science which is fantasy as well. There is no difference whatsoever in explaining FTL engines with "jumping through other dimensions, taking shortcuts" - or magic with mental capacities making use of something called "mana" which is in essence some kind of energy the mind can tap into.
Yes, superhero stories are FANTASY.
Don't you think the wizards of the Seven/ Silver Cities are QUITE scientific? A "construct" is first and foremost a complex machine.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted June 23, 2016 09:44 PM |
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Well, some people don't like lasers and robots in their fantasy settings 
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
