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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted August 02, 2016 12:01 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 00:02, 02 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
I dont get why people use the stagnant word, like 'k we kinda know the ending but are you saying H5,6,7,CoH,MMX, etc are the same? Do you believe that a "GoT knock-off" cant happen post DM (will there only be one faction with one city and one person in the entire universe or what lol?) Lineups are still changed (well, most they could, thats the problem with iconic units) between games. Pretty much the only static thing is the factions names so...i just dont get it.
Ashan is stagnant because of its rules, and its unchanging continent. The dragon gods made 7 races, then there are demons and that is it. All other intelligent species are wizard experiments. When you box yourself in with your own rules there is little wiggle room for innovation. Then add the fact that the games take place on a continent with a discovered everything attitude, and looking at how most of the natural world is so easily explainable it is easy to see why. Just look at the games in Ashan. If you take out Warhammer inspired H5, the other four use the same units in the same culture add infinitum. There is no change because by the world's own logic there is no reason to. Post DM could be the only way to inject change into Ashan now.
GenyaArikado said:
Like, do you realize the reason they blew up Enroth is because they couldnt keep up with their own lore? They made Axeoth to start new again for that reason lol. OldVerse backstory being bloated with different world and the old developers lack of foresight when it came down to "accounting" it lead to Axeoth in first place and Ashan in second place.
H5 originally started in a similar place (side effect of originally being set in Axeoth and looking like like Warhammer: The TBS Videogame) which is why they did that world revision during H6 developement.
A different developer making bad decisions does not make Ubi any more in the right.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 02:57 AM |
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Gryphs said:
Ashan is stagnant because of its rules, and its unchanging continent. The dragon gods made 7 races, then there are demons and that is it. All other intelligent species are wizard experiments.
The ancients made most of the races, then there are demon aliens and that is it. All other intelligent races are warlock experiments 
Post H6 Ashan was crafted to mirror in a smaller scale the old lore actually, with the Dragon Gods = Ancients, Shantiri Empire = Time of Wonders, Elder Wars = The Silence. Ashan is just as versatile as the old universe, except creatures (and their skills during H6) actually had lore written for them lol.
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When you box yourself in with your own rules there is little wiggle room for innovation.
I believe the only thing they have outright refused to do is the Leprechaun (and for that i'm grateful). They write lore around the creatures they want to make, not vice versa
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Then add the fact that the games take place on a continent with a discovered everything attitude, and looking at how most of the natural world is so easily explainable it is easy to see why.
Disliking that doesnt make it a bad thing lol.
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Just look at the games in Ashan. If you take out Warhammer inspired H5, the other four use the same units in the same culture add infinitum. There is no change because by the world's own logic there is no reason to. Post DM could be the only way to inject change into Ashan now.
That has nothing to do with Ashan. The lineup problem comes from metareasons (people are still whining about the manticore not being part of dungeon lineup). Ashan lore was crafted around so they had an "in-universe" reason but ultimately the problem is the fans resistance to lineup changes. Duel of Champions bestiary shows they arent lacking at all in creativity
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A different developer making bad decisions does not make Ubi any more in the right.
They were right to reboot the old universe and start again. Deal with it
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 02, 2016 03:01 AM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 03:04, 02 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
The ancients made most of the races, then there are demon aliens and that is it. All other intelligent races are warlock experiments.
Lol. Maybe you should try to learn something about the old universe before expressing yourself about it?
We don't know if the Ancients made the races. We hardly know who they are for a start. That's part of the beauty of the old universe. It's more likely that the Elementals made most of the races. Here's some reading for you: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=25737
GenyaArikado said:
They were right to reboot the old universe and start again. Deal with it
Yeah, it worked out so well. Nothing of the 2k+ strong community remains. Hooray.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 03:28 AM |
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AnkVaati said:
Lol. Maybe you should try to learn something about the old universe before expressing yourself about it?
We don't know if the Ancients made the races. We hardly know who they are for a start. That's part of the beauty of the old universe. It's more likely that the Elementals made most of the races. Here's some reading for you: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=25737
According to the wiki the crafted the worlds both Heroes and MM games are set. Even if evolution happened and the races inhabiting them came on their own, they'd still be their creators by proxy. But if it was the elementals then your arguments get thrown out through the window even quicker, because that'd mean literally the only difference between both verses is literally the word "dragon" after the word "elemental" and before the word "made" lol.
Prefering ambiguity is fine, but being specific is not a minus, just a different approach. Knowing how X came to be can be just as beautiful, it just depends of how you view things. However you fail to recognize that being specific requires more work that being ambigious (and that being specific only becomes a nuisance when you write yourself into a corner. So far lore hasnt held them back from adding any creature they WANTED to add, so no corners yet. Even the snowing leprechaun could be added if they WANTED)
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Yeah, it worked out so well. Nothing of the 2k+ strong community remains. Hooray.
The problem is not Ashan, the problem is making a crappy game which takes 10 minutes to load and when it finally does, it's boring and/or buggy.
your avatar suits you so much. It's funny.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 06:08 AM |
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No, the problem isn't Ashan per se.
It's that it stopped dead after Dark Messiah.
I can get one prequel - everyone's holding their breath, waiting for how the DM will chose and decide and how Ashan will move on, while we take a look into the past - and they introduce a new faction, a REALLY new faction.
No problem.
And then, when everyone including the producers are not satisfied eith the game - the main vehicle of the whole brand is NOT used to transport Ashan and its story into the next era, but instead we get, what should be an EXPANSION named "Famous battles of the Past"?
That is inexcusable and undefendable.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 07:12 AM |
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I really dont care. Wish we had gotten a Tuidhanna and Sandro campaign. Showcasing those "landmark" stories would have been better for H7, although the tales are lovely. But i understand people wanting to see what comes after DM
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Heroes 8 is truly going to need a big time, AoW3/H4 level gameplay revamp if/when it gets made. The current formula is just not working anymore.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted August 02, 2016 09:45 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 09:46, 02 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
Prefering ambiguity is fine, but being specific is not a minus, just a different approach. Knowing how X came to be can be just as beautiful, it just depends of how you view things. However you fail to recognize that being specific requires more work that being ambigious (and that being specific only becomes a nuisance when you write yourself into a corner. So far lore hasnt held them back from adding any creature they WANTED to add, so no corners yet. Even the snowing leprechaun could be added if they WANTED)
They could write in a massive flying Erwin head if they wanted to, under one of their many bland blankets, it does not mean it is a good idea. Knowing that gryphons come from a fusion thanks to blood rivers is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and only destroys any guesses or mystery around them. Putting a phrase such as, "Scholars believe", rather than, "gryphons were", could have actually made it sound slightly interesting I think. At least it would not have sounded like a teaching the Erwin's Ashan pocket bible.
Also, mentioning the leprechaun reminded me how charmless Ashan is. Although, most fantasy worlds are these days so I am not really going to complain.
GenyaArikado said:
They were right to reboot the old universe and start again. Deal with it
What? If you are talking about the reboot to Ashan, then no, I do not believe they should have rebooted it. Staying in Axeoth would have been the best decision.
GenyaArikado said:
Heroes 8 is truly going to need a big time, AoW3/H4 level gameplay revamp if/when it gets made. The current formula is just not working anymore.
We agree on something. 
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
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posted August 02, 2016 10:10 AM |
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Edited by lordgraa at 11:16, 02 Aug 2016.
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From Oak with Love  (Steam forums)
Limbic_Oak said:
Silence? Well in the grander scheme of things it has been more silent yes because we've been quite busy developing the game. At least that's on Limbic's side. I can confirm though, that there has been NO falling out or anything of the like. The cancellation of the stream was just poorly communicated, I can agree there, and I don't know the exact reason for the cancellation anyway. I wouldn't have had any problem showing off the game, but hey, that just means I have a few more hours to work on bugfixing 
And no, Limbic is not going bankrupt because of Ubisoft, if that's what you were implying :|
There is no "curse" like that.
About the price, I'm not sure, I will ask about it.
Seems like Ubi did cancel the stream not Limbic and again Ubi is waiting with price reveal (but why?).
UPDATE: Also I just got confirmation that the price will be announced on the same day as the release, so, August 4th (-Limbic_Oak)
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World of Heroes (Czech fansite)
The Shadows Over Ashan (H7 community DLC)
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 02, 2016 10:23 AM |
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I'm guessing Limbic is just as much in the dark about UbiSoft management decisions as we are  .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted August 02, 2016 01:08 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 02, 2016 01:49 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Heroes 8 is truly going to need a big time, AoW3/H4 level gameplay revamp if/when it gets made. The current formula is just not working anymore.
The original formula is working, otherwise, no one would still be playing the old games till this day. H7 is not this formula, and everyone in this forum knows it, thanks to the great work from Ubilimbic. Would I be wrong if I say most people enjoying h7 are also h6 fans?
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted August 02, 2016 01:58 PM |
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Nope. H4 and H6 are worst hero games for me and I quite enjoyed H7.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 02, 2016 02:00 PM |
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Yeah, good thing I said "most". 
Anyway, just speculation from my side obviously.
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Selpen
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 02:17 PM |
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Heroes 4 was 1st Heroes for me and it's still my favorite. I probably played 500+ hours with my friends. Everyone was saying, that H3 was better, but not for me. I was excited when H5 came out, but release was very dissapointing. Didn't even buy dwarves expansion. Though orcs expansion was amazing . It was unpredictable and i liked it. We never knew who was going to win.
I loved how different H4 was. Best spells and skill system in whole Heroes saga. Every spell was useful, unlike now, where some spells and skills are so useless in H7 you must be complete noob to choose it.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted August 02, 2016 02:37 PM |
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Off-topic but i found this rather amusing:
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"What we want is that our games are perfect when we release them and we are showing that all the time, so we are giving them the time they need to blow away everybody. That's our mission. The beauty of Ubisoft also is to be able to give time to games when we feel they are not completely polished. We are trying to respect the dates of course, but sometimes we have to make the decision to [push a project back], like with The Division for example, which we had to postpone twice because we felt it was not completely polished yet. Quality for us is super important - everyday we work to make sure the worlds we create are as perfect as possible before we release them to the fans because ultimately they decide if the game is good and if they will help with word of mouth." Full interview
Ubi pls, don't be silly
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 02, 2016 03:00 PM |
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Quote:
"What we want is that our games are perfect when we release them and we are showing that all the time, so we are giving them the time they need to blow away everybody. That's our mission. The beauty of Ubisoft also is to be able to give time to games when we feel they are not completely polished. We are trying to respect the dates of course, but sometimes we have to make the decision to [push a project back], like with The Division for example, which we had to postpone twice because we felt it was not completely polished yet. Quality for us is super important - everyday we work to make sure the worlds we create are as perfect as possible before we release them to the fans because ultimately they decide if the game is good and if they will help with word of mouth." Full interview
Whahahahahaha! Seriously, it's like putting whipped cream on a pile of manure and calling it a tasty pie .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Selpen
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 03:01 PM |
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No one should buy Trial by Fire. This will be great lesson for them. You can't snow up with fans.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 02, 2016 03:14 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 15:24, 02 Aug 2016.
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Selpen said:
No one should buy Trial by Fire. This will be great lesson for them. You can't snow up with fans.
It won't matter any longer.
Cancellation of Dark Messiah 2, lack of CM for Ubisoft's Might and Magic forums (when was the last time you saw Ubi-Nox?), lack of ANY marketing for H7's expansion pack can mean only one - Ubisofts higher-ups don't see any future in MM branch. And with Vivendi breathing on their necks, they probably are trying to save any cent/pound whatever they can.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Selpen
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2016 03:16 PM |
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Avonu said:
Selpen said:
No one should buy Trial by Fire. This will be great lesson for them. You can't snow up with fans.
It won't matter any longer.
Cancellation of Dark Messiah 2, lack of CM for Ubisoft's Might and Magic forums (when last time you saw Ubi-Nox?), lack of ANY marketing for H7's expansion pack can mean only one - Ubisofts higher-ups don't see any future in MM branch. And with Vivendi breathing on their necks, they probably are trying to save any cent/pound whatever they can.
Dwarves don't even have racial skill 
They are so lazy
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 02, 2016 03:22 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 15:23, 02 Aug 2016.
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We don't know if they have or not (personaly I think they have). But we know that Ubisoft don't give a... about informing us about that.
2 more days and you will know the truth. Someone will buy this expansion anyway and tell us: "Dwarves racial skill is superb/crap" or "Dwarves don't even have racial skill".
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
