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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:03 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
The_Green_Drag said:
And the ultimate is OP (as usual) but do I have to level up chaos magic to get the ultimate? That would suck as a might hero.
You don't. You just need to have the master Destiny skill and Destiny has to be one of main skills of a Hero class.
 Article said all heroes can learn the ultimate of destiny because it is a neutral skills
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted April 22, 2015 08:12 PM |
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Master rank (skill), not Ultimate Ability.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:14 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
smiling is the only difference really, and can you blame him? he found love
Finding love is the perfect way to become about 40 years younger.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:20 PM |
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Avonu said:
Master rank (skill), not Ultimate Ability.
  Another reason to hate the hero classes
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:24 PM |
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Now, I like to think of myself as unbiased, only if I'm not joking ofc., and I give credit where there is one to give, and critique, when it deserves. So:
I liked Air magic - hornestly - only few minor complaints. And Warcries were meh, I mean they were ok, but too few of them. But Destiny? I think I don't like it much. The reason being that Master and Grandmaster level are for magic only heroes. Now if Grandmaster would be magic only, that would be fine, but I would realy like Might option for master level Destiny. Granted, Perfect strike sounds good, and if going might, one would choose both expert level skills, and imo would not be that bad. But I do think Chaos Magic + Deadly strike combo is going to be stronger.
One fix would be that Chaos Magic does not work with deadly strike - or that they reduce it's potency to 25% and 50% with deadly strike ... but that would put Chaos Magic into Expert category, and would be a lame way to fix the issue. Instead, I recon Destiny will be choosen by magic heroes mostly, while Might heroes will not choose it. And I don't like this.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 22, 2015 08:29 PM |
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The_Green_Drag said:
Avonu said:
Master rank (skill), not Ultimate Ability.
Another reason to hate the hero classes
In my opinion current system of classes and skill system has potential to be good, while in case of Heroes VI it would have to be done from scratch. Sadly, such reworking won't happen. 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:30 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I liked Air magic - hornestly - only few minor complaints.
Of course you're hornest. 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 22, 2015 08:32 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 20:33, 22 Apr 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I think I don't like it much. The reason being that Master and Grandmaster level are for magic only heroes.
Why do you think that Grandmaster is only for Magic heroes? Spell immunity is something desired by both Might and Magic Heroes.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:42 PM |
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I'd say Grandmaster is even better for might heroes, because the creatures are his win condition so they need to survive... Not sure what Zombi_Wizzard means here.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:46 PM |
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Imo master and grandmaster abilities should be switched, with fickle magic reduced in potency. Now everybody who wants to have kick-ass magic resist will need to pick a pure magic perk. Also it would make sense for a chaos ability to be the grandmaster perk of the skill characteristic for chaos: luck.
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Thanir
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 08:47 PM |
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The whole Destiny skill line seems to be somewhat poorly designed.
All three novice skills look highly situational but "Traveller's Luck" could be interesting at least. It would be nice to know what buffs you can get from this skill and how strong and useful these really are.
While the expert skills support the general theme of the Destiny skill line they also increase the power of the random effect "luck" by a lot and in my opinion by too much. Luck by itself is already very strong and can decide battles. I was never a big fan of luck in Heroes games because it can simply be too good and destroy all tactic and strategic elements. With these two skills this problem gets even worse.
The master skill is also problematic. First there should also be an effect for might heroes. It makes no sense that there is no benefit for might heroes going into the master tier. The second problem is the same as with the expert tier. It makes the random effect of luck way too strong and therefore adds too much randomness to battles.
The grandmaster skill is the biggest offender in this regard. Adding a skill that only works 50 % of the time is really bad game design. In the long run those skills are neither fun for the one who picks the skill nor for the opponnent who has to face the skill. If you get this skill you still can't rely on it because it may not trigger once in a battle. On the other hand as opponent it may block every single spell you try to cast and thus effectively shuts down any offensive magic hero.
In my opninion the whole Destiny skill line is very problematic and should get another look by the developers. The Destiny skills increase the randomness and the impact of the randomness on the battlefield by a lot. Loosing to random effects is really annoying and can get frustrating fast which simply leads to people no longer playing the game.
In its current state I wouldn't even be surprised if the Destiny skill line gets banned from online play if there should ever be an active online community for Heroes 7.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 09:40 PM |
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Minion said:
Not sure what Zombi_Wizzard means here.
It means Zombi_Wizzard f***ed up here. 
But I admit my mistake, like a true man. (Didn't read well Grandmaster ability, just glanced over words 50% and Magic)
Still. I stand with by not liking Destiny any more for it. Grandmaster is only for selected classes, and Master is only for Magic heroes. So might heroes will need to skip it.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 10:03 PM |
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Woww there aren't many like you on internet forums *nods in agreement*
Anyways yeah I have never liked Luck/Destiny either. I'd probably end up with never picking the skill like I did in H5 too. Although Chaotic Magic is simply fun, so I don't know maybe I have to at some point :S
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 22, 2015 10:13 PM |
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good thing this skill-system allows you to pick master destiny without forcing you to pick chaos magic sooner or later 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 22, 2015 10:31 PM |
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For me, this is the best of the skills so far. Yes, a bit curious that the Master skill is for magic only, but that's an inherent problem of having only one Master skill - it'll be likely to cater more to one group than the other, which means someone will have to be bypassed. I like the Expert abilities, they seem like something you'd really want and the one that lets you avoid retaliation is actually having an effect on game besides just adding +X number to some stat, which is more or less a first from the skills we've seen so far.
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What will happen now?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 22, 2015 10:53 PM |
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The Grandmaster perk is the 'Ultimate' of that skill? I'm not really following
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 22, 2015 10:57 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The Grandmaster perk is the 'Ultimate' of that skill? I'm not really following
Yes the Grandmaster perks are the new "Ultimate perks" - a Hero can learn up to 3 Grandmaster perks, in the three skills that are his favored skills.
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What will happen now?
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 22, 2015 10:58 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The Grandmaster perk is the 'Ultimate' of that skill? I'm not really following
Yes. "Grandmaster" and "Ultimate" ability are both the same thing.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 22, 2015 11:10 PM |
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Thank you, both 
Luck ultimate is really OP then, 50% chance of making enemy spells (which target your creatures) fail, lol
I really need to write a news article, don't I...
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 22, 2015 11:19 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Thank you, both
Luck ultimate is really OP then, 50% chance of making enemy spells (which target your creatures) fail, lol
I really need to write a news article, don't I...
True, this ability is unbelievably powerful. 50% immunity is so much that this is nearly unimaginable. However, this a thing that can be altered rather easily, so (presumably) despite being a Grandmaster ability, it won't be that great.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
