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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 22, 2015 11:25 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 23:25, 22 Apr 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
smiling is the only difference really, and can you blame him? he found love 
And the age. In H3 he'd have to be at least 30+ older than Tyris.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 11:32 PM |
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On luck skill tree:
1. There is not a novice skill that effects battles which makes the entire tree useless for duelist (it's hard to imagine to pick a useless ability to unlock stronger ones).
2. Fickle Magic is clearly OP. Also i hate the design.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2015 11:57 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Minion said:
Not sure what Zombi_Wizzard means here.
It means Zombi_Wizzard f***ed up here. 
But I admit my mistake, like a true man. (Didn't read well Grandmaster ability, just glanced over words 50% and Magic)
Still. I stand with by not liking Destiny any more for it. Grandmaster is only for selected classes, and Master is only for Magic heroes. So might heroes will need to skip it.
Keep in mind though that destiny is a skill that boosts your creatures,so the bonus itself is already quite useful for might heroes and the 2 expert skills are actually better for might heroes than magic ones.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 12:44 AM |
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Destiny can be balanced if the other 2 main skills of the hero are not so good. In my opinion SKILLS AND ABILITIES are overpowered. I like to play long battles and too much luck, magic or warcries will just kill the game for me. Skills and abilities should only be just of small help to the hero, they should not decide the whole battle. After all we play a game similar to chess and our units and the way we move them should be the most important thing in the battle.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 02:21 AM |
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As much as everyone keeps crying "Fickle Magic too OP!", do remember it's a ultimate/grandmaster ability. Of course, it should be powerful to be in this spot, but that's not why I am pointing this out.
You NEED Destiny as your main skill in order to even attempt to get Fickle Magic. I looked through the so-far posted heroes, all for Haven, Necro, Stronghold and Academy.
None of them have Destiny, as far as I could tell, as a main skill. That means none of them can have this ability. If anything, it is most likely available to a Sylvan heroes, possibly Dungeon heroes since they aren't revealed, and maybe an eventual Inferno class. So this supremely powerful ability won't really be on the field for at least 2/3's the time in H7 vanilla, as it stands.
Also, as it stands so far, only one revealed class has Exploration as a main skill. It's Ultimate, as well, can only be obtained by the Shaman so far, though I'd think a Sylvan could get this skill as well.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 08:09 AM |
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Greenlore said:
Keep in mind though that destiny is a skill that boosts your creatures,so the bonus itself is already quite useful for might heroes and the 2 expert skills are actually better for might heroes than magic ones.
Yep, I said that, and you are correct. Might heroes will choose 2 expert perks, however, it's not as powerfull as chaos magic + deadly strike combo on a magic hero. It's not bad by any means tho, and I like it. But might heros will lack master perk, which is kinda meh. Imo there should be 2 Master perks, one chaos magic and the other something else ...
I think the class to get grandmaster will be magic class (that is class who's primary skill is destiny) - in this case no might class will be able to get it, so my initial statement would actualy be correct - grandmaster and master will be unavailable for might heroes. Tho probably and hopefully this will not be the case.
You know what I'm thinking: Hybrid class. Powerfull might hero with destruction magic. Perhaps Dungeon hero. This guy will use might and magic aspects of luck.
What I am curious about is Traveller's Luck ... I think this perk is going places. It all depends what buff will do. Could you immagine it, if it would give you free "stables" boost? This would be awsome...
Also - I don't hate actualy Destiny - and as some like Alchibides pointed out, it has certain good points. But I can't help but feel it could be better designed. No no ... I'm savoring my rage for the moment Logistics will be revealed 
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted April 23, 2015 08:35 AM |
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 vs 
Let's not talk about how a Lucky Strike should be 'introduced' when it occurs: a golden horseshoe, like in H3 and H6, or a rainbow, like in H5. No, let's talk about the Destiny skills as presented to us yesterday. I also wrote something about this in the SC, but that got buried by tons of nonsense. This has made me decide to reduce my activities there, save for possible future votes and perhaps two or three comments on every new article, depending on how much I have to say.
It's better to turn to a somewhat more mature place like HC. Now, to the matter at hand.
When I first looked upon the Destiny-set, I was, and still am, quite positive about it. Again it is not thát much to choose from, like the other two we've seen so far, but I think these skills can come in handy depending on your situation. Also, instead of just boosting your Destiny like in H6 (automatic bonus when leveling up and Destiny's Chosen I-III), you can now unlock skills for extra bonuses. There is something for Adventure and Combat, and the latter has gifts for both Might and Magic. Let's take a look at the categories here.
I think Blessed Ground sounds a bit trivial, and one's first impression might be: "Why?" You need to have a hero in your area of control for it to work, but...it is likely that you will face an invading hero at some point, and I believe that an extra Destiny boost might help. Combined with other traits, you stand a better chance against what's coming at you. Treasure Finder sounds a lot like Resourcefulness from H5, but limited to the finding of more gold, rather than all resources or 'being more lucky overall'. If you are short on supplies you can use this trait to get more income. If there's enough money in your resource pool, just go for experience instead.
Traveller's Luck. A random Adventure buff at the start of each week. This remains unexplained, but I think this may include things like movement points, or terrain penalties. I don't know what other buffs there could be, but depending on the situation this may come in handy.
A Might Hero's dream would be the Deadly Strike and Perfect Strike. 75% extra damage instead of 50% when a creature performs a lucky attack. I say, build a Might hero around Destiny, Warfare/Warcries whatever, increase the odds of creatures attacking with good luck, and when they do their power is already enough to deal great damage, let alone if it is increased by 75%. Perfect Strike is a powerful one, no retaliation upon any lucky attack. Is this overpowered? Well, a Lucky Strike has to occur first in order for the skill to trigger. If you are, well, lucky that it happens often, it might indeed be a bit over the top. It's basically an extra No Retaliation-ability for your creatures.
Magic Heroes want to build their Destiny skills a bit further, to Chaos Magic and Fickle Magic. I believe the name Chaos Magic for Destiny is a remnant from H6, where the Inferno-only Dynasty Trait "Chosen of Urgash" also increased Destiny by 4. The idea of a Luck Roll is seen in H5 with "Warlock's Luck". This particular skill increases the chance of Destructive spells dealing double damage. Whether or not it is a good choice to have all these faction-specific luck bonuses tied into one Destiny-pool is not my point here, though, although it would add to Faction distinctions. Chaos Magic is your Magic hero's Deadly Strike, and with that skill enabled your spells can even do 75% extra damage. So, try to build a Magic hero around Destiny and Magic power and hope for the best.
Fickle Magic sounds like some badass Resistance-ability. And it is! A fifty-fifty chance your creatures are unaffected by a spell. This could be useful for both Might and Magic, especially the first since this class usually has lower Magic Defense and is therefore more vulnerable. I see no restrictions here, you literally always have a 50% chance it will work. That's a bit powerful, maybe throw in at least some kind of restriction, or decrease the odds of it happening.
--
I missed things in the Warcry and Air Magic class, things that I considered quite useful in H6. However, playing duels in said H6 has been a good eye-opener regarding useful skills. A magic hero needs no overload of spells. If a combat takes 6 turns, your hero can only cast 6 spells, but maybe he/she needs other abilities too. What you want is focus on passive abilities, like stats or similar boosts. Thanks, NamelessOrder/ZergRusher for your divine insight . Your many duels have made you an authority in my view.
A slight concern about the Destiny path: Considering that you have a lot more to choose from, other skills and schools and paths and what not, how much of Destiny will you eventually be able to obtain? As is pointed out by others, the hero classes we've seen so far didn't specialize in Destiny, nor did any of the heroes we've seen in the HoH's. I think, therefore, that Destiny is all-available, you can either go down that path, or not. And judging by the bonuses, it may very well be useful to choose Destiny. However, I can't be absolutely sure about this until I know how Destiny works within the Wheel.
Amen.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 09:41 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 09:42, 23 Apr 2015.
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I have to ask, how do people feel on the topic of X effects in the area of cotrol and about the area of control of a town in general? Do you like the way that plays in the game? Or should it be tweaked somehow?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted April 23, 2015 09:52 AM |
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Stevie said:
I have to ask, how do people feel on the topic of X effects in the area of cotrol and about the area of control of a town in general? Do you like the way that plays in the game? Or should it be tweaked somehow?
Destiny bonus for heroes in the AoC, extra creature growth in the AoC, that sort of thing? I think it makes good sense to have bonuses in your own area. I mean, it is your territory, your home ground. So if an enemy hero invades, you have the advantage for it is your territory this hero tries to take. Vice-versa it works too, if you are invading, the enemy hero has bonuses to defend his/her lands. About creature production: you can't do that in enemy territory, and when you take a dwelling in a neutral zone it says 'you don't own this building' (like in H6). You can only convert it if you take the zone's Fort or Town. If it's already belonging to your faction, I'm not entirely sure if it still provides the bonus. You did capture it after all.
So yes, I think that there is something to say for bonuses in your own territory. Also, the whole concept of AoC is something I kinda like in H6. At least now you don't have enemy heroes stealing your mines anymore all the time. It is a better way to defend your income, infrastructure, creature boost etc. You can assign creatures or even heroes to Forts etc to guard a specific area. Of course, if the enemy roams about with powerful heroes it may not help, but at least you prevent weak heroes from stealing away your income etc. Admitted, in H6 the whole portal system made territories extremely defendable and exploitable. Just portal to a Fort, back to a town, to a Fort again etc, either to intercept enemies or reduce travelling time. Strange that the AI never seems to do that, only portalling to towns...
Generally I'm positive about it.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 10:02 AM |
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Stevie said:
I have to ask, how do people feel on the topic of X effects in the area of cotrol and about the area of control of a town in general? Do you like the way that plays in the game? Or should it be tweaked somehow?
I dont have much/any experience with are of control thingys because H6 was blaah...
But as an idea that you get bonuses that apply only when you are in area you already have under control doesnt make much sense to me... Maybe if you need to defend your realm? But if you need to do that you might be in trouble already, because why would the enemy attack if he wasnt stronger already? No Blessed ground will save you then...
Skills/abilities should be for more specific use, so maybe thats their lazy way to make abilities without too universal effects... but i dont like it. Skills should be specific for different situations and not depending on map location at least in that way. Skills like "death march" in H5 was nice and specific and had an impact on the way you played. I would like to see more skills like that. Specific and dependent on the particular situation, not tied down to your towns location that in the end doesnt have any relation to the actual skill.
Specific skills with situational effects = variety in hero builds and tactics = longer life span for the whole game
Skills with universal effects = identical hero build once a working pattern is found = game becomes boring and predictable really fast 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 23, 2015 10:26 AM |
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Soo.. Grandmaster perks
Looks like a lot of people consider it OP, but is it really? GMP are limited only to certain classes, and right now we know 24/36 of them and not a single one specializes in luck.
This is also the case with water magic, nobody is focusing on it.
Right now we know about 17 none faction skills, and who at this point still thinks we are getting 24 NFS is a bit over optimistic.
But even if we were getting 18 skills. With 36 classes and each having 2 GM skills that is 72 GMS. Divided by the 18 skills we get and an average of 4 GM in each. A number that is already unrealistic since 7 classes share GM in Warfare, 6 in Prime magic and 5 in Defence and Paragon.
On the other hand Leadership and Exploration are unique to one class only. And as I said Water magic and Destiny have no class dedicated to them at all.
And we have 2/3 of the classes out.
BTW in 5 cases two classes share their primary skills, apart from the racial, and in one casse, the only difference is in the Might/magic class (Necro)
So yes GMP might be strong, or even OP, but they are rare, very rare in most casses, and very common in other casses.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 23, 2015 10:29 AM |
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ThatRedSarah said:
Specific skills with situational effects = variety in hero builds and tactics = longer life span for the whole game
Skills with universal effects = identical hero build once a working pattern is found = game becomes boring and predictable really fast
I agree with this assessment. I am a bit disappointed that they went for the general stuff instead of situational.
That being said, in Heroes3 many factions had a building that helped the town during a siege. Haven had the Tavern that gave +2 Morale, Inferno had the Cinderclouds that gave +2 Spellpower, Rampart had the Fountain of Fortune that gave +2 Luck and Fortress even had two of those, the Blood Obelisks which gave +2 Attack and the Glyphs of Fear which gave +2 Defense. Stronghold had an oddball one, that allowed Heroes to escape through its Escape Tunnel if defeat was inevitable. Strange enough, there's no town that provides +2 Knowledge for defending Heroes.
I consider the area bonus to be in line with these boosts from Heroes3.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 10:46 AM |
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What people may have missed is that the Blessed Ground perk is a governor-related skill. If I understand correctly you appoint a governor to a town and his/her governor skills work on that town's area of control regardless of whether or not the governor is in the area of control.
This means that, while your main hero is out adventuring, he/she can still support the town defence trough his/her luck skill. Imo that could be quite a useful ability.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 10:49 AM |
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 11:10 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 11:15, 23 Apr 2015.
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Stevie said:
You will never want Area of Control abilities on anything else than a secondary hero.
This.
You will probably be leveling up a secondary with as much Area of Control abilities as possible, so your main will be a monster when defending. At it's best if it works right, it will let you spread your strength among all Heroes so everything doesn't stack up to your main hero. I like the part that it gives incentive to at least build a secondary, but not sure about it being fun and interesting. I prefer skills that make you go "WOW" and you enjoy using them. Hence I like the very strong Master and Grandmaster skills of Destiny actually.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 01:11 PM |
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Maurice said:
ThatRedSarah said:
Specific skills with situational effects = variety in hero builds and tactics = longer life span for the whole game
Skills with universal effects = identical hero build once a working pattern is found = game becomes boring and predictable really fast
I agree with this assessment. I am a bit disappointed that they went for the general stuff instead of situational.
Exactley. Finaly some are getting the groove of things. (the groove? wtf? - it's my own word ok ... accept it.)
This is why I dislike things like Logistics. Pathfinding and Navigation are much better. But still, even more situational stuff ... snowwalking, mountainwalking etc ...
However random skills fix this effect, because you don't get same stuff every game. Indeed it's better to have generalized stuff here, because in this situation, you never feel cheeted. So ... to conclude:
- universal/generalized skills/perks = good for random skills - otherwise you get navigation on land only map.
- specific/specialized skills/perks = must have for non-random skills. - otherwise there's no replayability.
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EvilP
Promising
Known Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 04:23 PM |
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EvilP
Promising
Known Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 04:38 PM |
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Edited by EvilP at 16:45, 23 Apr 2015.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 23, 2015 04:44 PM |
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Only two factions in Beta? LOL
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2015 04:45 PM |
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Also some website update is coming soon because the cabir master is working hard right now 
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
