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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 11:45 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
on the feel part you are right.but same applies to the lady-gargoyles and djinns right? humanoids similiar elemental typing (prime), but not in the same tier yet.
Bad Comparison. Gargoyles are not alligned to primal element, Gargoyles are constructs, just like Golems. Which would be a far better comparison. But 1 eople are used to these two being together. 2: I've always felt Gargoyles should go back to Dungeon to begin with.
ChrisD1 said:
but if anyone wants to see one quarter of an inch further (maybe less than that), will see:
-two totally different-looking creatures (which didn't apply to the girls of sanctuary)
-with different stats
-with different abilities.
As I said to Stevie, that did not save the girls of Sanctuary either. And they did not look that similar.
ChrisD1 said:
I am 100% sure that if the H5 alternate upgrade of the Pixie was called Miley Cyrus we wouldn't have this kind of argument.
Bullhonkey. This has nothing to do with names. It has to do with the feel.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 15, 2014 11:53 AM |
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The current look of the game is muy peculiar.
Very Game of Thrones meets Pokémon-ish.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 11:54 AM |
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War-overlord said:
Bad Comparison. Gargoyles are not alligned to primal element, Gargoyles are constructs, just like Golems. Which would be a far better comparison. But 1eople are used to these two being together. 2: I've always felt Gargoyles should go back to Dungeon to begin with.
even so golems are infused with primal magic to work, no?(i am actually asking i don't know the answer)
War-overlord said:
As I said to Stevie, that did not save the girls of Sanctuary either. And they did not look that similar.
so two ladies made of water (ice is water), wearing dresses(kimono is a dress), same hairstyle, same size are not that similar, but dryads and pixies (as seen in the concept art) are?
War-overlord said:
Bullhonkey. This has nothing to do with names. It has to do with the feel.
although I loved the "bullhonkey" thing (i am stealing it)
almost everyone says that they were the same in H5. and that's their argument.
it's natural for someone who had played H5, to not have been exposed to other concept arts of dryads and pixies. so he thinks they are the same.
(btw i am facing a post limit issue so i might not be able to reply )
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 11:58 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
War-overlord said:
As I said to Stevie, that did not save the girls of Sanctuary either. And they did not look that similar.
so two ladies made of water (ice is water), wearing dresses(kimono is a dress), same hairstyle, same size are not that similar, but dryads and pixies (as seen in the concept art) are?
He's blinded by the Unicorn.
War-overlord said:
Same case can be made for Spring Spirits and Yuki-Onnas.
It's not looks, it's not role, it's element and feel.
Make it. Find me the same 5 differences I found between Dryad and Pixie.
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted September 15, 2014 11:59 AM |
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I would like to see some concept art because that snake/python makes me feel a bit uneasy until I see how it looks. If its just green sausage that could ruin it for me because I'm interested in look as much as feel of the unit.
I would welcome concept arts of all units so we can stop debating about dryad/sprite similarities, looks of deer and doe, Phoenix and bladedancer.
Detailed description of units would help to form idea how one can apply each unit during fight or think about tactic and build options.
For now we are just tapping in the dark. We can't really create informed opinion based on available information.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 12:11 PM |
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Green Sausage ahhaahhaahaahahaah. That made my day.
But seriously, H3 elitists strike again. Can you people not give a chance to something remotely unique for elves? You have pretty much all other sylvan units, so why not give deers and snakes a chance?
Does EVERY game needs to have snowing unicorns in?
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 12:48 PM |
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Stevie said:
Make it. Find me the same 5 differences I found between Dryad and Pixie.
The same 5 differences is impossible, as they are different creatures, but I'll find you 5 differences.
Also, you do not know that Pixie's aren't female or that all Dryads are female as they can be born from any elf.
Furthermore you don't know Dryads are walkers.
ChrisD1 said:
so two ladies made of water (ice is water), wearing dresses(kimono is a dress), same hairstyle, same size are not that similar, but dryads and pixies (as seen in the concept art) are?
Very Well, I'll use these works as reference.
Also I NEVER SAID THE DRYAD AND PIXIE LOOK SIMILAR.
The Spring Spirit is water that resembles a woman, The Snow Maiden is a woman with severe frostbite (not made of ice);
The Snow Maiden & Yuki Onna wears a long kimono, the Spring Spirit wears nothing, the Mizu Kami wears a bikini-top and a headdress.
The Snow Maiden has extremely long black hair (beyond the buttocks), the Spring Spirit has longish water (shoulderlenght);
The Snow Maiden is a Shooter; The Spring Spirit is a melee-attacker.
The Snow Maiden is disruptor, the Spring Spirit is a damage mitigation support.
ChrisD1 said:
even so golems are infused with primal magic to work, no?(i am actually asking i don't know the answer)
All we know is it takes magic, not which kind.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 12:49 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:04, 15 Sep 2014.
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Stormcaller said:
But seriously, H3 elitists strike again. Can you people not give a chance to something remotely unique for elves? You have pretty much all other sylvan units, so why not give deers and snakes a chance?
Deer I might be okay with, but blade dancers are IMO quite the most terrible unit Sylvan has ever seen, and I've never been entirely happy with the phoenix in a forest, so that leaves Strength of the forest as my preferred option.
Quote:
Does EVERY game needs to have snowing unicorns in?
They are a signature unit in the faction now. Whatever else has gone on the forest-dwellers have always had unicorns and elves.
Now shut up about fans of H3, you're starting to sound like JeremiahEmo complaining about feminisation.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 01:06 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Also I NEVER SAID THE DRYAD AND PIXIE LOOK SIMILAR.
All we know is it takes magic, not which kind.
Hey calm your beard! I know you never said it we were discussing about how the feel of pixies and dryads might be same for some people. not you. And i was wondering to you about those people.
Well wizards use prime magic mostly so they might as well be infused with prime magic.
About the dryads/pixies debate and whether they look/feel similar i think that there are more solid arguments that make them different than arguments that make them similar.
Also all faction's units should have the same feel to justify their presence and role in that faction, so the faction seems consistent.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 15, 2014 01:11 PM |
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I could see the Peryton as a replacement to the Unicorn.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 01:17 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
About the dryads/pixies debate and whether they look/feel similar i think that there are more solid arguments that make them different than arguments that make them similar.
Also all faction's units should have the same feel to justify their presence and role in that faction, so the faction seems consistent.
They do not need the same feel, that's actually a detrement. The whole Dryad Pixie debate is the prime example for that. For 1 plant-people is fine, 2 plant-people is too much of the same.
A faction need thematic/racial consistency. They need a reason to be fighting together instead of agianst each other.
Which is why it would be odd to find Orcs in Sylvan, since Orcs and Elves are more often enemies.
And I am not saying that either Dryads or Pixies don't fit Sylvan, that was never a question.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 15, 2014 01:22 PM |
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I agree with War-Overlord here on Dryad/Pixie debate.
When I saw them together in the Fury line-up and then looked in my Ashan Compendium...I was like....no...please don't put those creatures together, one or the other but not together...this is not an airy fairy spirit faction, this is the Elves for Irollan's sake!!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 15, 2014 01:23 PM |
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War-overlord said:
ChrisD1 said:
About the dryads/pixies debate and whether they look/feel similar i think that there are more solid arguments that make them different than arguments that make them similar.
Also all faction's units should have the same feel to justify their presence and role in that faction, so the faction seems consistent.
They do not need the same feel, that's actually a detrement. The whole Dryad Pixie debate is the prime example for that. For 1 plant-people is fine, 2 plant-people is too much of the same.
A faction need thematic/racial consistency. They need a reason to be fighting together instead of agianst each other.
Which is why it would be odd to find Orcs in Sylvan, since Orcs and Elves are more often enemies.
And I am not saying that either Dryads or Pixies don't fit Sylvan, that was never a question.
Well often.. but not in Ashan. Here orcs and elves are actually the cloasest factions out there. They know the share similar values, They have no negative past and don't see a reason for a conflict. and I believe if needed, they could be the best of friends
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 01:29 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Well often.. but not in Ashan. Here orcs and elves are actually the cloasest factions out there. They know the share similar values, They have no negative past and don't see a reason for a conflict. and I believe if needed, they could be the best of friends
They'd never be in the same faction though. And they are not allies either, they are neutral towards eachother. Orc have no allies, only enemies. And the Elves have the Empire and the Dwarves as allies.
Though M&MX should that they needn't be enemies on individual levels. Putting Orcs in Sylvan or Elves in Stronghold is gonna cause an even greater uproar than we allready have going.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 01:35 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 13:37, 15 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
--------------------------
So you REALLY think that the differences between these:
 
Are not that different than the ones between these two:
 
You gotta be kidding me.
Quote:
The Spring Spirit is water that resembles a woman, The Snow Maiden is a woman with severe frostbite (not made of ice);
The Snow Maiden & Yuki Onna wears a long kimono, the Spring Spirit wears nothing, the Mizu Kami wears a bikini-top and a headdress.
The Snow Maiden has extremely long black hair (beyond the buttocks), the Spring Spirit has longish water (shoulderlenght);
The Snow Maiden is a Shooter; The Spring Spirit is a melee-attacker.
The Snow Maiden is disruptor, the Spring Spirit is a damage mitigation support.
So these are the 5 differences I requested? Or you're quoting him before just to make it confusing? Either way, not even close. Clothes and hairstyle are very specific features, which I can myself bring as support to my own case. A decent analysis, as a direct response to mine, would have been:
Water thingy is feminine, Snow thingy also;
Water thingy is humanoid in appearance, Snow thingy also;
Water thingy is medium in size, Snow thingy also;
Water thingy role is different than Snow thingy's;
Water thingy is walker; Snow thingy also; But the attack style is different;
So that's only 2 out of 5.
I took my time to address this point by point and not in a self-serving confusing fashion.
But then again, this doesn't even mater. If you wanna vote your precious Unicorns, go ahead. Just don't tell me that Pixies to Dryads are like Spring Spirit to Snow Maiden in Heroes 6. That's not a reality. And usually people learn from mistakes and fan criticism so maybe we won't see another case like that. And seeing the compendium art, I'm optimistic in this regard.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 01:49 PM |
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Stevie said:
So you REALLY think that the differences between these:
Are not that different than the ones between these two:
You gotta be kidding me.
NO. I said it would not be possible to give the same differences(which is paradoxical in itself), because the comparrisson is askew. Dryads are more different from Pixies. But I said I would find 5 differences. Which I did.
If you are confused, you're not reading close enough.
Stevie said:
So these are the 5 differences I requested?
No. They are not. These differences were to give 5 and refute Chris' assertions. regarding hair, consistency and clothing. These were to show that there are plenty of differences between the two, yet that does not stop them from feeling similar.
Stevie said:
But then again, this doesn't even mater. If you wanna vote your precious Unicorns, go ahead. Just don't tell me that Pixies to Dryads are like Spring Spirit to Snow Maiden in Heroes 6. That's not a reality. And usually people learn from mistakes and fan criticism so maybe we won't see another case like that. And seeing the compendium art, I'm optimistic in this regard.
This has nothing to do with Unicorns.
But Dryads and Pixies are like Spring Spirits and Snow Maidens, they are very similarly feeling creatures, which belong to the same faction, which are placed in the same tier. That rubs plenty people the wrong way.
And the fact that they are even proposing the possibility of these creatures both appearing, shows they have not learned.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 01:52 PM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 13:58, 15 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
ChrisD1 said:
About the dryads/pixies debate and whether they look/feel similar i think that there are more solid arguments that make them different than arguments that make them similar.
Also all faction's units should have the same feel to justify their presence and role in that faction, so the faction seems consistent.
They do not need the same feel, that's actually a detrement. The whole Dryad Pixie debate is the prime example for that. For 1 plant-people is fine, 2 plant-people is too much of the same.
A faction need thematic/racial consistency. They need a reason to be fighting together instead of agianst each other.
Which is why it would be odd to find Orcs in Sylvan, since Orcs and Elves are more often enemies.
And I am not saying that either Dryads or Pixies don't fit Sylvan, that was never a question.
i agree, but you don't with what you are saying. both of the creatures are thematically consistent with the forest/elf/nature sylvan.
you say racial consistency but people don't want 2 "plant people''.(even if they are not both plant people)
of course Sylvan is about elves, but if this line up had more elven units we would say that we need more creatures.
and pixies and dryads do have a reason to fight together.
the way dryads feel similar to pixies might be the way titans feel similar to golems or gargoyles. but no one ever batter an eye for those. so can we agree that sometimes "people who might be rubbed the wrong way" are a minority?
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 15, 2014 01:54 PM |
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Edited by blizz at 13:54, 15 Sep 2014.
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Yeah Sanctuary was ruined for me because of the boring spirits in the lineup. That dryad looks really similar to the water maiden which makes me dislike it even more.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 15, 2014 01:58 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
I agree with War-Overlord here on Dryad/Pixie debate.
When I saw them together in the Fury line-up and then looked in my Ashan Compendium...I was like....no...please don't put those creatures together, one or the other but not together...this is not an airy fairy spirit faction, this is the Elves for Irollan's sake!!
Same here. While their designs have differences, in essence the concept is very similar and it gives the feel of an overkill :S
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 15, 2014 01:59 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
i agree, but you don't with what you are saying. both of the creatures are thematically consistent with the forest/elf/nature sylvan.
you say racial consistency but you don't want 2 "plant people''.(even if they are not both plant people)of course Sylvan is about elves, but if this line up had more elven units we would say that we need more creatures.
and pixies and dryads do have a reason to fight together.
I said they fit. But plant-people are not Sylvan's core race. Elves are. And yes, they are both plant-people. Dryads take the form of the Treants that birth them, Pixies are formed by the flowers they are born amongst. So they are plants. They are both humanoids as well. That makes them plant-people. And before you ask, Treants are plant-people as well, just a lot larger.
ChrisD1 said:
your only argument is that you don't want 2 "plant people" in the line up. which is fine since it's your own personal preference.
Personal preferences shared by many others.
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