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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted May 01, 2015 06:50 PM |
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Sorry for offtopic, but Salamandre, Pendant of Life ain't no cross, its an Ankh.
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Haregar
Famous Hero
of destruction
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posted May 01, 2015 07:39 PM |
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Salamandre said: I think there is enough room to improvise within the existing features. We have the Graal, which is tied since 13th century to Christ, we have the pendant of life which is a cross, we have archangels coming from Abraham religion, we have zealots, demons, devils, an Inferno race, we have holy ground, we have Armageddon blade...
Well... To begin with, the Holy Grail as a dish that was used by Christ himself during the Last Supper has its roots even earlier (end of XII century, check out Robert de Boron's poem about Joseph of Arimathea). Although do not forget that in some sources from the epoch it also appears as different things, like stone in example.
Since the medieval times, the Holy Grail (however named) was something precious, extremely rare and highly desirable. I see no problem in using that kind of legend in game, because it's not putting any religion into Heroes' world, but using similar terminology. Bear in mind that the Grail as something rare and precious is kept in game, that's why you search for it and you get only one (at least on the overwhelming amount of maps).
Going further, next thing - Pendant of Life. It's a cross named Ankh, very important symbol to the religion of ancient Egyptians. Today it is mostly used by neopagans, Wicca movement or superstitious people. Is the fact that Ankh is a part of our reality means that it cannot be used in game as well, while it was and it is even in our times so popular?
Similar situation is with Armageddon's Blade. Armageddon, alright, is a place in Book of Revelation, but it's also something usually connected to destruction, disaster etc. Again we have an example of using terminology of our world by modifying a bit (without crushing its sheath) and adding to a game.
Next thing you mentioned, archangels, devils and such. I agree they come from judaism, but is it really a problem? Notice the amount of devils or archangels that you can recruit in game and have in your army WITH the amount of them in the Holy Bible. It's not that angels or devils can be count on one hand's fingers (in fact they were in war, as the Bible says ).
Same goes with creatures from various mythologies, like Greek, Roman.
The game's creators explained angels and devils origins though; they are not "holy/unholy beings" to some point, but kind of aliens.
There are way more examples of using themes influenced by ancient mythologies, religions, like for instance a location called Sanctuary which looks like a church.
The problem is a proper border and not going "copy&past" method on those things. That's why we can have devils, but several Antichrists in a world there is no Christ nor Unholy Trinity is ridicilous. Same goes with an unit "Caliph".
Salamandre said: See, HoMM isn't black and white except when people want to see it that way.
Of course, I totally agree. Although my view on the borders between black, white and grey are more strict than yours. Both of us can have their oppinion though. Cheers!
@Nephretes
Good to hear! Also, I cancell my proposition to call it as a faris after hearing from culgil and now from you this unit is that mage sitting on a carpet.
And bedouin looks fantastic!
@revolut1oN
As you propably noticed by reading my post, Ankh is also a cross. I think Salamandre referred to cross as it's understood now by many people, I mean treating it as the symbol of Christianity and only Christianity.
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 03, 2015 04:08 PM |
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Here is a battle sprite of a woman
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Haregar
Famous Hero
of destruction
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posted May 03, 2015 05:04 PM |
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Nephretes said: Here is a battle sprite of a woman
Utterly beautiful!
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted May 03, 2015 09:50 PM |
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Are you doing this all by yourself? This is great work.
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted May 03, 2015 11:50 PM |
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Solon
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 04, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Edited by Solon at 22:30, 04 May 2015.
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Really great work there Nephretes! That Lamassu is particularly beautiful. I look forward to seeing it in action!
Just some comments on your lineup, mostly to tie it together thematically (I'm guessing you're just going for broadly 'Oriental', in the old Middle Eastern sense of the word):
- The cat-men could be called Ugallu. These were lion-headed men in Babylonian mythology.
- Since we already have the Naga and Medusa, a regular snake man might seem too similar. Although, that said it is a great model. If he is going to be an archer, please give him Jaffar's cobra staff! A possible names could be Mushushu, a type of Babylonian snake-dragon.
If you fancy fiddling with the design there's always something along the lines of the Greek Giants (or the Starbucks girl...) with two snakes for legs? (Which could be called Gargants, I'd probably stay away from 'Colossi' though because that sounds a bit too 7th level.) Of course, feel free to ignore this - I'm thinking aloud.
- I think 'Caliph' is probably a bit too high-ranking for a creature, especially unupgraded because the word is essentially the Arabic cognate of 'Emperor'. For Arabic rank names, there are always the likes of a Wali (Baron) or Emir (Duke), and of course Efreet already have Sultans. However, given the long association of magic carpets and levitation with 'Fakirs' (you know, those guys on the nail mattresses?), I would probably recommend calling him that (or just a Sorceror?). Although considering his awesome handful of fire animation, you could also go for 'Fire Eater' as one version of the creature (it would also make for a pretty cool idle animation/breath attack).
- You could probably relate the Scorpion upgrade to the constellation Scorpio by either literally making it the kinda ethereal constellation or putting star decorations on it (in which case, the Sumerian/Babylonian word for both 'scorpion' and its constellation is 'Girtab'). Western astrology is derived from Mesopotamian sources so this way it would fit well with the Lamassu as well as maintaining that key desert theme. Alternatively, you could remodel it as a pure scorpion-man (which are thoroughly Babylonian).
- The Sand Ghost could be named 'Sand Ghoul' or simply 'Ghul'. Ghouls originated in Arabia as a type of djinni, and according to Wikipedia the ghul is "a desert-dwelling, shapeshifting, demon that can assume the guise of an animal, especially a hyena" - so your formless sand shadow-creature could easily fit the bill. I think 'Ghul Immortal' has a nice ring to it as an upgrade, even if that's more of a Persian reference.
And if you were looking for any other creatures, some other ideas might include:
- The more familiar mythical Chimeras which could bind the feline-snake theme together (and so as not to edge too far into the lion-monster space of Manticores, have them standing up?). Any of the God of War concepts are perfect inspiration, although you could of course choose to emphasise the serpent element over the lion element:
[url=http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/godofwar/images/d/da/Chimeras.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120510142935]Chimera Image[/url]
(Again, too big picture so you'll have to take the link)
The Mamluk, an elite caste of Muslim soldiers and a good chance to get a few scimitars and some decorative Arabic armour in there and stress the human foundation of the town. Or 'Mamluk' could just be the name of an upgrade - like with that wasp.
Or... he could be riding a Buraq like with the Pegasus (so be named something like Buraq/Buraq Mamluk). 'Al-Buraq' (literally 'lightning') was a heavenly creature used as a steed by the prophets (so you couldn't really ask for a more noble steed). It is variously depicted as a horse with a human face and peacock tail or even as some kind of Islamic winged centaur. The wikipedia page is good for more info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq
There were also plenty of other Middle Eastern monsters like Anzu, a lion-headed eagle, and Apkallu, which were bird-headed men. But one of my favourites was a race of people, the Blemmyae, which the Greek historian Herodotus suggested was a monster which (according to the locals) inhabited eastern Libya and Alexander the Great apparently met on the way to India: people with no heads but with faces (or just eyes) in the middle of their chests. The first couple of images might look kind of dorky, but you can always spice it up to look a bit more like the third image:
[url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpMukowIYAA0S9b.jpg]Image 1 - some one-eyed Blemmyae[/url]
[url=http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/huig002wegn01_01/huig002wegn01ill04.gif]Image 2 - another Blemmy[/url]
[url=http://clazroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/i3.jpg]Image 3 - something more monstrous[/url]
(Sorry about all the links)
Of course, these are all just brainstorming suggestions so feel free to take them or leave them but I hope they may be some food for thought.
I just look forward to seeing what you come up with next!
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 09, 2015 01:48 AM |
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@Pellish
Almost everything I am posting here is my work, however this particular hero sprite is based on model made by one of the best polish 3D graphic artist, Trith.
I am back to show You some future portraits for Oasis heroes made by Darkem.
Mod will include usual number of them, which is 8 per class: some new ones, but also some references to characters of M&M. We are planning to have also campaign heroes, but not until VCMI allow such thing.
@Solon
Thanks for your comment, I really appreciate some of your suggestion, and may use them in my mod, especially those with naming. I also like some suggested creatures, and I might use them as alternatives one day. I won't be discussing every idea however, as the project concept is a little further than what I am showing you here
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Solon
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 09, 2015 02:28 PM |
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No problem! Glad you could make use of it.
I follow this project with anticipation.
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 10, 2015 10:03 PM |
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Mod will include some new artefacts as well
Lamp of Genie
Summon jinn to a battlefield
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted May 11, 2015 07:22 PM |
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Nephretes said: @Pellish
Almost everything I am posting here is my work, however this particular hero sprite is based on model made by one of the best polish 3D graphic artist, Trith.
Needless to say you've done a great job. I don't play VCMI but I'll definitely test your town out once it's released.
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culgil
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 03:38 PM |
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Male and female hero battle sprites look really good! Great!
Portraits look nice as well. But I especially like the new artifacts (seen at Acid Cave). Good idea to include Mamluk items.
Lamp of genie's strategical use is to generate Master Genie(s) for spellcasting, I assume?
@ Solon: Nice ideas. Fakir is indead a better name than Calpih, I think.
Concerning the Ghoul, I feel it could rather be a nicely fitting alternative Necro unit (undead, consuming corpses). Could have the property to prevent all kinds of resurrections, when you kill a stack with it (consumed corpses cannot be resurrected any more).
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 15, 2015 12:48 AM |
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Nephretes said: Mod will include some new artefacts as well
Lamp of Genie
Summon jinn to a battlefield
Rock on.
Pellish said: Needless to say you've done a great job. I don't play VCMI but I'll definitely test your town out once it's released.
I too am waiting for VCMI 1.0
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 15, 2015 04:26 AM |
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@Pellish
Thanks! I hope it won't take long until we finish.
@Culgil
I would rather go for summoning spell during battle. For now VCMI can't handle that, but hopefully it will do. If not, I will think about other options
I forgot to post it for those who don't visit acid cave. Some of new artifacts. No properties are decided so you may suggest something instead of boring + to statistics
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted May 16, 2015 09:07 AM |
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Edited by phe at 09:52, 16 May 2015.
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For boots: Movement of heroes on sand the same like on grassland
For helmet: While on sand grants invisibility from more than 5 tiles
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted May 16, 2015 10:56 AM |
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For Shield: Reduce damage from spells like Golems
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 17, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Thanks for propositions, I think that ability for shield and boots may be interesting.
Meanwhile we are planning to add some other artifacts which won't be typically Oasis-like. There is an idea to create some items which will grant magic spells to use during battle. They will work like Titan's thunder, but will be much weaker for balance reasons.
Here are some propositions
Casting Fireball
Casting Ice bolt
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culgil
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 05:21 PM |
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Helmet: +X% mana points (like Intelligence)
Suggestion for a cats unit specialty:
Surprise attack / Sneak attack: When attacking an enemy unit from behind (exactly from the direction the enemy is coming from, no other angles), the attack does bonus damage.
This would fit to the natural inclination of all cat-like animals to start fast surprise attacks on their prey. And I think you originally anyway wanted to design them as assassins
This would also fit to the snakeman, because you have to wait longer to be able to attack from behind, then enemy perhaps is in range of snakeman as well.
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 24, 2015 07:55 AM |
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Today I decided to show you guys some animations of units which are near their final state, here I go:
1) Ugall/Ugal Assasin
2) Wasp/Wasp guardian
5) Faqir/Hakim
7) Statue/Lamassu
So more than half is ready for testing I hope you guys like them.
Anyway I will whisper quietly, that mod is going to have more goodies than town itself. If any of you have some awesome skills You can help make it happen
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 24, 2015 06:28 PM |
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IMO wasp and faqir are perfect. Assasin is a bit strange with his cat-like movement (on fingers?), then lamassu looks a bit fat and less polished, for example the head is not very distinct. But anyway, the whole is looking great already. What skills you need to make the goodies available?
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Era II mods and utilities
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