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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 24, 2016 04:15 PM |
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searing fires was never supposed to be in the wheel, it is very weak and hellfire is already boosted without it
pariah will give indeed +10 to dark on lvl 30
rune artist to prevent runes becoming completely free.
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hakuryou
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 24, 2016 05:47 PM |
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@magnomagus What is your curret approach to one-time-bonus perks like resistance or graduate? some of them received a buff in the latest release (twilight, pariah) but others are stil mediocre. Is that intended? Or will it be changed?
Also what do you think of cold death and it's place in the gameplay?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 24, 2016 06:15 PM |
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mediocre skills are not at the end of a branch and are intentioanlly weaker prerequisities of stronger skills.
I may have overlooked the option to add a late game boost to cold death.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2016 06:33 PM |
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Sweet on the new version! Interested in trying it out.
I wanted to ask, though: What's the deal with Pit Lords and the differential between Fireball and Meteor Shower damage and their spell costs? I have never found, and I think I will never find, any justification for using Pit Lord's Meteor Shower...
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2016 06:35 PM |
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magnomagus said:
mediocre skills are not at the end of a branch and are intentioanlly weaker prerequisities of stronger skills.
I may have overlooked the option to add a late game boost to cold death.
I think this is cool and reasonable - increases choices. Although for some skills, things are pretty even-steven across the board, and it would be interesting to acquire the third skill from any of the three primary selections.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 24, 2016 06:42 PM |
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 24, 2016 07:53 PM |
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Great job.
Done with translation of this version, you might add the link somewhere if you like (the same folder as before, just added new file).
H5.5 Czech translation 1.7
Thanks for release notes & not changing the last changed dates, without them, I would be totally lost and going through every single folder/file would be a nightmare 
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2016 11:17 PM |
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magnomagus said:
The article on moddb is now available:
Changelist with Screenshots
Quote:
I have never found, and I think I will never find, any justification for using Pit Lord's Meteor Shower...
you may have a point, siege battles with siphon mana?
That's about the only one I came up with as well, and even then I don't think it would be useful (once we consider the other situations). Here's the math logic as it stands...
Pit Lord Meteor Shower does 75% the damage of Fireball, for twice the mana cost.
For simplicity's sake, let's use the values of 750 damage for Meteor Shower, and 1000 damage for a Fireball, and see all the situations that might favor one choice or the other.
Situation #1 - One or two targets in range for both.
-Obviously, Fireball will always be better, because it does more damage, and you can use it twice...
Situation #2 - One or two in range for Fireball, two or three in range for Meteor Shower.
-A singular Meteor Shower would be doing 1500 damage to two stacks as opposed to Fireball's 1000 (which is 2000 at the second cast).
-A singular Meteor Shower would be doing 2250 damage to three stacks to Fireball's 2000 (which is 4000 at the second cast).
-Fireball is always better if you have more time and limited mana.
-Fireball is almost just as good when hitting less targets, which makes one think that it's not worth using Meteor Shower even if there's mana to spare (since it WILL run out eventually).
-The exceptional situation is that an enemy group comes close enough to the Pit Lords for them to actually engage in melee - if they could engage in melee with other stacks, then the next cast is a <MAYBE> waste depending on the Attack skill of the Pit Lords, and how large the two groups actually are: Pit Lords' other special only kills the top unit of a stack, so Pit Lords are proportionally less valuable the more of them there are (emphasizing the value of smaller-troop battles).
Situation #3 - The argument from wide area to kill off a weakling opponent with Meteor Shower before he retreats.
-It doesn't matter. The Pit Lords with their low Initiative are not going to go first...
Situation #4 - Wide area hit during first round.
-In order for Meteor Shower to hit 6 or 7 units immediately after the Tactics phase, this would instantly make 4 or 5 units vulnerable to Fireball (assuming 3 big and 4 small units, as per a normal town distribution). Obviously, Fireball wins.
Situation #5 - Mid-combat distribution favoring MS.
-It is possible to fit 7 units within a 5x5 grid in such a way that Meteor Shower could hit all of them and Fireball could only hit two. In this situation, Meteor Shower could manage 5250 damage, while Fireball would manage 4000 after its second blast. However, the likelihood of this distribution's occurrence is so outrageous that I am confident it will never happen: this is besides the point that if it DID happen, probably a friendly unit would be involved in the blast somehow.
Situation #6 - The Pit Lord side is losing, so do as much damage as possible.
-Obviously, if you're going to run, hit for as much damage as possible before you do. But would you really want to balance this sort of thing around a retreat situation?
Situation #7 - Extra mana (particular in a siege).
-This highly specific situation either requires an item that boosts Pit Lord mana, or lots of Familiars stealing a boatload of mana. Once again, the first question that comes to my mind is whether we'd really want to ever balance options around highly specific situations.
-Assuming infinite mana, every Meteor Shower is going to be having to hit at least 3 units (over Fireball's two) in order for a MEAGRE 250-point total difference (12.5%), and here we're also assuming that Meteor Shower isn't hitting any allies, which I wouldn't count on.
-Realistically, if the mana runs out, which it will, using Meteor Shower even in this situation - or at least every time - seems mostly dumb.
CONCLUSION: While there are a couple situations where Meteor Shower can do better, really these situations are by no means normal, and still leave Meteor Shower hanging as highly questionable anyways. I'd ultimately rank Meteor Shower from a Pit Lord as being an unfeasible choice for anything.
So, let's brainstorm some ideas for changes...
Idea #1 - Make Meteor Shower and Fireball the same cost.
-Either Fireball or Meteor Shower could be useful, entirely depending on the distribution of enemy forces.
-But the choice of one or the other entirely depends on distribution and doesn't really leave the player any strategic options in the matter: you just pick the better choice. Boring.
Idea #2 - Boost Meteor Shower damage.
-Without picking a number, this either ultimately turns into a different version of #1 (boring and unstrategic), or a less severe version of all the problems illustrated earlier. I'll just skip this one.
Idea #3 - Interplay with Fireball/Meteor Shower and Vulnerability.
The idea in this case would be to set up the mana costs of all the spells in order to allow specific actions under NORMAL circumstances. Abnormal circumstances are just that: abnormal, and so buffing for these is a bonus - though we of course have to give them proper heed.
For example, say we set all the mana point values to the following...
Vulnerability - 7
Fireball - 12
Meteor Shower - 19
Pit Lord mana - 28
In this situation, the Pit Lord can use four Vulnerabilities as it always could, two Fireballs as it always could, one Fireball and two Vulnerabilities as it always could, or one Meteor Shower (as it always could) AND one Vulnerability. This gives the player a bit more flexibility with using Meteor Shower: perhaps if we buff the damage some (say to 80% or 85% of Fireball), then the player can opt for an opportunistic Meteor Shower that does OKAY damage, then make something Vulnerable afterwards; or otherwise, aim for high damage from two Fireballs. Should there be Familiars involved in the combat, there is much more breadth for the player to use Meteor Shower due to the lower casting cost, but Fireball may still end up being a better choice. This setup could be tweaked for different results, but in essence I think it would be a step up from where we are.
But speaking of Familiars...
I have to ask why there is such a sharp difference between the Speed values of Familiars and Vermin. Statistically, Vermin are effectively no different than Familiars (an Attack point here replaced for a Defence point there). The main difference is that Vermin automatically steal mana and give it to the player's Hero, whereas the Familiars don't do it automatically, but can activate it over and over to give mana to Pit Lords. That extra turn saved on the Vermin side of things is useful for the Vermin to engage more - but anything gained from having a passively-activated ability is lost from their being so darned slow. Familiars end up being the better choice hands down because of the need for creeping - neither of their draining specials matters during creeping (unless using Neutral Heroes, but I prefer to assume normal circumstances), making Familiars a standard choice. A stat boost or damage boost on Vermin would seem to make sense to me to make them a more realistic choice during creeping.
Also thought I'd bring up Horned Demons and Horned Overseers. After approaching it from a number of angles, I'm having trouble coming up for any good reason for ever using Horned Demons. Here's why...
1. Horned Demon's special doesn't matter. In innumerable fights, I don't think I've once found a single instance where I could use it meaningfully. It can't fire after moving, and Horned Demons are ridiculously low on the initiative chart, so any meaningful "surround" situation will either disperse itself by a Horned Demon's next turn or otherwise the Horned Demons will have been beaten up so bad from a mass attack that its purpose will have been extinguished anyways.
2. The blast damage stinks so badly that in almost all cases it isn't even worth using it to avoid a retaliation.
3. On the other hand, Horned Overseers can jump up to 8 tiles and actually do not-useless damage because of it - and 8 tiles is REALLY useful for a unit that has horrible initiative. Big deal if Horned Demon has a speed of 5 to Horned Overseer's 4 - that's no advantage.
4. The "disadvantage" of Horned Overseer is increased retaliation damage after it hits - but this was softened in H5.5, not like it mattered anyways - because most of my Leap hits do one of three things that usually make the retaliation meaningless: attacking a shooter (sure it hurts, but not THAT much), hitting a unit that already retaliated, or just killing something outright because of the damage boost. So where's the disadvantage?
5. For a special it doesn't get to use, the Horned Demon gets a whopping +2 Hit Points and +3 defence. Big deal. On the other hand, the following is the Horned Overseer's advantage: it actually gets to participate in combat!!! No, Horned Overseers aren't the most useful things around, but if I'm not paying money for a Horned Overseer, I sure won't waste it on the uselessness that is a Horned Demon.
Well, that's it for now. ^_^
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 04:20 AM |
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Also, thanks for opening up the edits for difficulty levels - this is so cool!!! (I'm letting the AIs cheat while keeping Neutral stacks lower; sadly, three weeks have passed and also about 20 Heros and a Gold Mine of mine is still standing because they just won't take it...unrelated, yes, but it still annoys me...)
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LarkinVB
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 08:05 AM |
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Thanks for the new version ! Can you please elaborate on movement ?
I never really understood the concept as I felt dwarves were always slower, even on their native snow lands. Same for academy and sands.
Is there still native movement ? A race/land matrix would be great.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 25, 2016 12:41 PM |
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@Antalyan: thanks, this version looks much better. I can add it to moddb, but I need a screenshot for it.
@Gidoza: I agree about the vermins, I noticed i started to rely on familiars mostly when creeping as well
I also found out it is possible to boost explosion dmg significantly, nonetheless the horned demons are already very useful if you use sorcerer or ballista-demon lord and place ONLY pit lords, succubi and demons on the battlefield.
Creature spells are not modifyable independent from hero spells, this means the most likely solution for pit lords is having them cast meteor shower on expert level.
@larkin: You felt right, but this issue is now gone. native terrains are unfixable/hardcoded but it doesn't matter, now it is more realistic and also balanced.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 25, 2016 04:13 PM |
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magnomagus said:
@Antalyan: thanks, this version looks much better. I can add it to moddb, but I need a screenshot for it.
I can make as many screenshots as you like. But how to send them to you?
I can share the dropbox links for example but I am not sure if you will be able to download them then.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 25, 2016 04:24 PM |
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I just downloaded the translation, so why would i not be able to download the screenshot the same way.
I only need one screenshot, take in mind it will become the icon, so don't send the mainmenu, then it will be too similar to the mod download. Probably a townscreen is best.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 25, 2016 05:24 PM |
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magnomagus said:
I just downloaded the translation, so why would i not be able to download the screenshot the same way.
I only need one screenshot, take in mind it will become the icon, so don't send the mainmenu, then it will be too similar to the mod download. Probably a townscreen is best.
What about this one?
Haven
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LarkinVB
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 07:34 PM |
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magnomagus said:
@larkin: You felt right, but this issue is now gone. native terrains are unfixable/hardcoded but it doesn't matter, now it is more realistic and also balanced.
Can you elaborate a bit which race has how much movement in the different terrains ?
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 11:41 PM |
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Quote:
@Gidoza: I agree about the vermins, I noticed i started to rely on familiars mostly when creeping as well
7 Speed is pretty awesome for intercepting or for tying up shooters I would say - my first inclination would be to drop Familiar max damage by 1, but other ideas are certainly pertinent.
Quote:
I also found out it is possible to boost explosion dmg significantly, nonetheless the horned demons are already very useful if you use sorcerer or ballista-demon lord and place ONLY pit lords, succubi and demons on the battlefield.
From what you're describing, my assumption is that the Horned Demons are being used as a tank unit, which is fine because it can absorb *slightly* more damage than a Horned Overseer - but are you really going to balance the entire unit based on one very specific situation? If Horned Demons are going to be tanky, then let them be tanky - sort of how you have a massive differential for Maulers VS Warmongers - drop Horned Demon damage, and buff its HP, and make Explosion more exotic. Would be cool if Explosion could be used more than once.
Quote:
Creature spells are not modifyable independent from hero spells, this means the most likely solution for pit lords is having them cast meteor shower on expert level.
I guess if that's the only solution, then that's the only solution. The other idea would simply be to give Pit Lord another spell altogether - the only one I can think of would be Implosion? It would at least add more variety - an AoE spell VS a single-target spell. Mastery would have to be considered, of course.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 11:54 PM |
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Gidoza said:
I guess if that's the only solution, then that's the only solution. The other idea would simply be to give Pit Lord another spell altogether - the only one I can think of would be Implosion? It would at least add more variety - an AoE spell VS a single-target spell. Mastery would have to be considered, of course.
and I approve this message.
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Mario
Known Hero
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posted May 26, 2016 12:44 AM |
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Crown of leadership doubles estates but not doubles the bonus to estates from the knowledge of the hero (for example hero Yrbeth with knowledge 4 gets 100 gold bonus and crown should to gives next 100 gold)
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2016 04:22 AM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 07:15, 26 May 2016.
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Hello. I'm really considering a digital repurchase of TotE specifically to play this mod. Between the handful of Youtube videos, word of post, and the couple of pages of this thread I've read, it seems really good.
Quick inquiry as to the hero models. Am I correct in my understanding that not all heroes have unique models, but A) there are different "regular" models for each faction class, B) certain characters (like those from the story campaigns) will retain their unique models, and C) all characters have models that match their gender?
EDIT: Also, on a more nitpicky issue, I noticed in the class preview videos (eagerly awaiting the Dungeon one, BTW.  ) that certain characters have had their specializations tweaked - for example, Rolf having the "Rider" specialization instead of Ebba. The preview screenshots showed a "non-vanilla" character with a "proper" fluff bio, so would it be safe to assume that the "vanilla" bios of "vanilla" characters have been tweaked accordingly to account for the changes? Not a deal-breaker or anything - heck, the more I look at H5 now, the less I view it as "Ashan" and more just "Heroes", akin to how I view H3 - but lore-obsessed me appreciates consistency and this mod doesn't strike me as having a "screw Ashan" mindset, so I get the feeling such matters have been treated respectfully. 
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 26, 2016 09:14 AM |
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Hello Kimarous !
Here are some answers
Kimarous said:
Quick inquiry as to the hero models. Am I correct in my understanding that not all heroes have unique models, but A) there are different "regular" models for each faction class
For most of them yes.
Kimarous said:
B) certain characters (like those from the story campaigns) will retain their unique models
Some unique character models are used for classes, for example - Most sorcerers use biara character.
Kimarous said:
C) all characters have models that match their gender?
yes.
Kimarous said:
EDIT: Also, on a more nitpicky issue, I noticed in the class preview videos (eagerly awaiting the Dungeon one, BTW. ) that certain characters have had their specializations tweaked - for example, Rolf having the "Rider" specialization instead of Ebba. The preview screenshots showed a "non-vanilla" character with a "proper" fluff bio, so would it be safe to assume that the "vanilla" bios of "vanilla" characters have been tweaked accordingly to account for the changes? Not a deal-breaker or anything - heck, the more I look at H5 now, the less I view it as "Ashan" and more just "Heroes", akin to how I view H3 - but lore-obsessed me appreciates consistency and this mod doesn't strike me as having a "screw Ashan" mindset, so I get the feeling such matters have been treated respectfully.
Some characters have specialization exchanged with other. That is correct.
If you still dont have the game you can preview them by installing the new skillwheel dedicated for the mod here.
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