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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 429 pages long: 1 ... 50 51 52 53 54 ... 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 429 · «PREV / NEXT»
StevenAus
StevenAus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2015 09:10 AM

I think that's just the way the game is structured.  Apparently none of the other HOMM games (or MM:H games) has this.  In the other games it is 1 turn per unit per round.

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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2015 10:31 AM

magnomagus said:

Quote:
I personally dislike that Urgash Call needs Power of Speed. While it may make logically sense, that you need 'haste' to get your forces in an instant, I don't really think that it fits skill wise.
It obstructs the Ballista build and makes you unable to aquire Preparation. Well, just my desire to combinate special skills, I guess.


What you are basically telling me is: Nice job on balancing the skill system and prevent one build become more powerful than the others.


OK, I gave Urgash Call a shot and I have to admit - you are right. It is powerful on its own, even if I had to weaken my Ballista build, my efficiency rose nonetheless. I had underestimated that skill, it seems

Though I would personally say that Leadership with Aura of Swiftness would be more fitting then Luck (since it would synergy with Retribution and would be another 'speed' aspect), it isn't really anything major and can be ignored.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 24, 2015 11:33 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 11:35, 24 Aug 2015.

Quote:
1. I remember there were two water options with the old RMG, one having only a small strip of water surounding the land. Now it is only 'islands' with lots of water and small land masses. Is it possible to bring the old one back ?


I think the 3.1 rmg had this option removed, because i did not remove it, it simply wasn't there, i found a entry for it in the Uigameroot file, but when i activated it nothing happened.

Quote:
2. I really love the game but what I dislike it the concentration on initiative as the most valuable resource. Everything is revolving around getting the best skills/perks/items to boost initiative and get first strike in every battle. It allows faster creeping without casualties and a provides a very big advantage in the final battle  (we are always playing 4p hotseat with 2 human, 2 AI). Not sure if anything can be done to balance this.


I already nerfed pretty much every modifier in the game affecting initiative and also combat damage to reduce the importance of the first turn. I recently played various hero vs hero battles in which initiative wasn't that important. I think now it feels a lot better, so pity you are still not happy.  But I also have to watch out not to change the game so much people don't recognize it anymore.

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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 24, 2015 01:48 PM

awwwwwwwwwwww.. regarding initative stuff I have very interesting battle coming out this week . STAY TUNED!
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StevenAus
StevenAus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2015 02:30 PM
Edited by StevenAus at 14:40, 24 Aug 2015.

In my impossible size 8 player map I generated with the ARMG in the MMH55_Editor, I am taking on huge armies with a combination of Arcane Armor, Endurance, debuffs like Mass Suffering (all succeptible enemy units reduction in Attack), Mass Weakness (all succeptible enemy units reduction in damage) and Mass Vulnerability (enemy units in area get defence reduced and can be cast multiple times on the same unit) and Regeneration (for battles against battles where Vampirism doesn't work) or Vampirism, for battles where you can life drain.

I recently played a big battle against Fire Dragons with the No Retaliation T6 Academy unit upgrade, using that unit's inherent activated ability, and waiting a lot to get more turns (and also more Regen).  I used Blade Barrier to keep some of the Fire Dragon stacks from attacking too early, and at one point kept running right around to avoid some of the attacks.  Then at the end of the battle I had regenerated all my units I finished the fight (only lost a First Aid Tent).  Look at the save - I must admit I've reloaded a lot on some battles (not in battles though, because like most games and unlike H4 you can't save in battles, only before and after), but I'm playing for fun, not for a competition.

Fire Dragon Replay is attached at:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzriliai2fkpl4u/LotsofFireDragons.7z?dl=0

Latest save (after the Fire Dragon battle) is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rbwqj4xzyx5vk9/EpicEmilia.7z?dl=0

You should see a hero that has lots of spell cost reducing abilities and artifacts and Emilia's mana regen in battle when at high level!  Once I got my latest spell cost reducer from the Artifact Merchant, the most expensive spells only cost 5 or 6 mana, and this is without Archmages.

Also, the Mentor ability is very fun, allowing me to bring up L1 or L2 heroes up to L19 or 20 by meeting with my super hero.

Note this game is with the MMH55_64.exe, it is an impossible (320 x 320) size 2-level map with no water and 8 players, one of each of the alignments.  My player is the only one with an Artifact Merchant.

If you want and you have a H6-recommended computer with more than 3GB RAM you can play from there if you want. =)

I quite like the 3 levels of skills plus associated trees of perks.  Makes a bit of difference from H4 where every level up is a skill and each skill has five levels, but I like the change.

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2015 02:38 PM

magnomagus said:


I already nerfed pretty much every modifier in the game affecting initiative and also combat damage to reduce the importance of the first turn. I recently played various hero vs hero battles in which initiative wasn't that important. I think now it feels a lot better, so pity you are still not happy.  But I also have to watch out not to change the game so much people don't recognize it anymore.



Guess I have to find my own balance. You did an outstanding job but with the reduction of ATB starting deviation to 10 it gets even more important to gather every little bit if initiative boost for an assured first strike.

My friend is playing sylvan with Wyngaal or whatever his name is. Together with boots of the dragon set his archers and druids are now reliably shooting first. Combined with tactics even his tier 1 and tier 2 units can get active the first turn. He loses 0 troops while creeping.

I'm playing undead and have a constant drain of troops while creeping. Had no luck with items and no luck with skills which were offered, so I'm stuck with my basic initiative.

I'm level 17 and he is 22 and it is already obvious that I won't stand a chance. He won the initiative race which led to much faster creeping which led to winning the game.

Ok, will stop whining and think about other builds which may mitigate a bit.

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StevenAus
StevenAus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2015 02:43 PM

Didn't magno say Wyngaal (or whatever his name is) is banned in some tournaments?  Does he increase the initiative of his army in an increasing way as he levels?  You might want to ban this hero for your multiplayer maps (maybe you can get a third party to edit the map from the editor).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 24, 2015 03:59 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 16:07, 24 Aug 2015.

Quote:
You did an outstanding job but with the reduction of ATB starting deviation to 10 it gets even more important to gather every little bit if initiative boost for an assured first strike.


The random ATb is a casino style factor, you can come out a little better, but you can also come out even worse. This is not a contributing factor to the issue.

Quote:
My friend is playing sylvan with Wyngaal or whatever his name is. Together with boots of the dragon set his archers and druids are now reliably shooting first. Combined with tactics even his tier 1 and tier 2 units can get active the first turn. He loses 0 troops while creeping.


wyngaal will always act first, even with old ATB, that's the point of his specialty. but after the first turn he doesn't have a special anymore so that's where you have to make the difference.

Since RC2 leadership and sorcery are mutually exclusive and empathy is heavily nerfed, this means magic heroes will always have the opportunity to act more often than might heroes. A ranger can never win a slow vs haste spell fight from a necropolis magic hero, also since the effect is spellpower dependent the magic/balanced hero will always slow more than the ranger can haste, take this in mind when you need to counter sylvan.

EDIT: I just noticed, the empathy nerf is not mentioned in the manual, but it is currently 5% not 10%.
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StevenAus
StevenAus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2015 07:02 PM

I just want to point out that map sites such as treasure vaults and witch huts always say they have been visited once they have been used or beaten at least once, but witch huts can be visited by other heroes and treasure vaults regenerate after 2 (or is it 3?) months.  However it still says it has been visited.  I guess once a week resource sites use original code and they can change from not visited to visited and back, but since the treasure vaults and witch huts use custom code they can't necessarily react.  So when the treasure vaults refill or when one hero has got a skill from a witch hut and others haven't, you can still use the witch huts with other heroes or visit treasure vaults when they refill.

Is there anything else you want to say magnomagus?  Did you want to mention these points in the documentation somewhere if they haven't already?

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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2015 07:20 PM
Edited by Nordos at 19:20, 24 Aug 2015.

Uh, my Heretic just learned Light Magic through a Witch Hut. Not sure if that should be possible, after all it isn't listed in the skills a Heretic is able to aquire.

Regarding Tent (especially Plague Tent) - is there a way to increase its Ammo? Or will it stuck at 6 when having Expert War Machines, Tent and Plague Tent?
If not, any intentions of raising its ammo? Or is it not possible?


BTW, what about exchanging Ballista and Engineering? Currently, you can't aquire Engineering and Plague Tent or Brimstone Rain...

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2015 08:54 PM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
You did an outstanding job but with the reduction of ATB starting deviation to 10 it gets even more important to gather every little bit if initiative boost for an assured first strike.


The random ATb is a casino style factor, you can come out a little better, but you can also come out even worse. This is not a contributing factor to the issue.

wyngaal will always act first, even with old ATB, that's the point of his specialty. but after the first turn he doesn't have a special anymore so that's where you have to make the difference.

Since RC2 leadership and sorcery are mutually exclusive and empathy is heavily nerfed, this means magic heroes will always have the opportunity to act more often than might heroes. A ranger can never win a slow vs haste spell fight from a necropolis magic hero, also since the effect is spellpower dependent the magic/balanced hero will always slow more than the ranger can haste, take this in mind when you need to counter sylvan.




Sylvan will win the initiative based creep race and be much more powerfull. The ATB lottery at least gives a chanche for them to take casualties from creeps. Perhaps my problem is that my hero is might too and necro might versus sylvan might seems to have a hard time before the final battle even begins.  

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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2015 09:42 PM

There is always luck involved.

I personally had absolutely no problems in playing Necro Might, simply focus on vampires at first. Confront living enemies (so, no elementals, mechanicals or undead) and you will have next to no losses. Especially if you use the Energy only to revive Vamps (or skelettons. Skelettons work, too, though they are much more fragile).

In a sense, Necro is far superior when it comes to dealing with Creep. Especially if you happen to be Magic (skill summoning magic, its worth it), but it also is true for Might Heroes....

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 24, 2015 10:36 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 22:45, 24 Aug 2015.

Quote:
I just want to point out that map sites such as treasure vaults and witch huts always say they have been visited once they have been used or beaten at least once, but witch huts can be visited by other heroes and treasure vaults regenerate after 2 (or is it 3?) months.  However it still says it has been visited.  I guess once a week resource sites use original code and they can change from not visited to visited and back, but since the treasure vaults and witch huts use custom code they can't necessarily react.  So when the treasure vaults refill or when one hero has got a skill from a witch hut and others haven't, you can still use the witch huts with other heroes or visit treasure vaults when they refill.


This is a limitation of the script functions, so I cannot improve this system further.

Quote:
Sylvan will win the initiative based creep race and be much more powerfull. The ATB lottery at least gives a chanche for them to take casualties from creeps. Perhaps my problem is that my hero is might too and necro might versus sylvan might seems to have a hard time before the final battle even begins.


I agree with Nordos creeping with Necro is very easy, but it is true initiative is a more important factor in might vs might than might vs magic battles. Countering other might classes with necro might will require some creativity and perhaps a little more luck with artifacts, since they are the slowest of all factions.


Quote:
Uh, my Heretic just learned Light Magic through a Witch Hut. Not sure if that should be possible, after all it isn't listed in the skills a Heretic is able to aquire.


It is too much work to make custom scheme for every class

Quote:
Regarding Tent (especially Plague Tent) - is there a way to increase its Ammo? Or will it stuck at 6 when having Expert War Machines, Tent and Plague Tent?
If not, any intentions of raising its ammo? Or is it not possible?


It is possible, once it was 10, but people found it too powerful, then moved back to 6. I'm comfortable with 6, but would like a small boost in healing power.

Quote:
BTW, what about exchanging Ballista and Engineering? Currently, you can't aquire Engineering and Plague Tent or Brimstone Rain...


but then you can't acquire brimstone rain + ballista.
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roymend
roymend

Tavern Dweller
posted August 24, 2015 11:34 PM
Edited by roymend at 06:22, 25 Aug 2015.

First of all, this mod is awesome. The skill system is much better, the artifacts are fun and interesting, and the new battle sites rock. But I see a few problems that really annoy me, so here's some feedback on the mod.

1. Look, it's nice what you did with the witch huts. The sytem allows for strategic choice, and it's nice to have a free skill once in a while. But the ARMG SPAMS witch huts. Everywhere. In the 5 games I've played with the mod, in all of them there were 2 or 3 witch huts in my beginning area. Getting free skills all the time is not fun, and witch huts in my opinion should be a more rare place reserved for late game areas. Having all my heroes gain 3 free skills right at the beginning is just not fun. Also, the witch huts take the place of other places I haven't seen at all with the ARMG: astrologer, artifact merchant, war academy, cartographer...

2. As I said, the new artifacts are fun and have effects more interesting than the vanilla artifacts. But it seems to me that now I find the new artifacts almost exclusively. In my games I have seen so many artifacts of the legion and the resource artifacts, but I miss the old ring of lightning protection, cloak of sylanna and sack of endless gold - I haven't seen them at all!

3. The wizard has only 30% spellpower. This was acceptable in vanilla, but now that spellpower is so much more important, a magic class with only 30% in spellpower is too weak in my opinion. (a possible fix is to have 35& spellpower, the 5% from defense, and make one of the creatures able to increase the wizard's spellpower druid-style.)

4. There's no proper magic class that specializes in light magic. The wizard comes closest, but as I said, he's to weak. The paladin is balanced, not magic. So you don't really have a proper class for light magic, you can only use light magic with classes that are geared toward other types of magic, which is disappointing. I see two ways to fix that. One, get rid of the heretic, and instead have a proper cleric, with a focus on light magic. Two, give the elementalist another name and make him specialize in summoning and light magic, instead of summoning and destructive.

5. This may be just me, but the guards in battle sites now seem to scale too much with time - their size is fine at the beginning, but they become undefeatable in the late game.

6. Just a suggestion: did you think about adding more of the HoMM3 ultimate artifacts? Many of them were really fun and powerful, and they will add more variety to the ultimate artifacts, and with more ultimate artifacts we will also be able to find more of them each game, which is more fun.
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StevenAus
StevenAus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 25, 2015 04:37 AM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
I just want to point out that map sites such as treasure vaults and witch huts always say they have been visited once they have been used or beaten at least once, but witch huts can be visited by other heroes and treasure vaults regenerate after 2 (or is it 3?) months.  However it still says it has been visited.  I guess once a week resource sites use original code and they can change from not visited to visited and back, but since the treasure vaults and witch huts use custom code they can't necessarily react.  So when the treasure vaults refill or when one hero has got a skill from a witch hut and others haven't, you can still use the witch huts with other heroes or visit treasure vaults when they refill.


This is a limitation of the script functions, so I cannot improve this system further.



Still, you might want to mention it.  The visited/not visited message works differently from the same objects in other games - the treasure vaults in H4, and the Witch Huts in all of the HOMM games that have them, and even other map sites in the same game (H5).

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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 25, 2015 09:11 AM
Edited by dredknight at 09:24, 25 Aug 2015.

roymend said:
1. ...the ARMG SPAMS witch huts. Everywhere. In the 5 games I've played with the mod, in all of them there were 2 or 3 witch huts in my beginning area. Getting free skills all the time is not fun, and witch huts in my opinion should be a more rare place reserved for late game areas. Having all my heroes gain 3 free skills right at the beginning is just not fun. Also, the witch huts take the place of other places I haven't seen at all with the ARMG: astrologer, artifact merchant, war academy, cartographer...

May be it would be a lot before but now when hero has 8th skills there is a lot to fill in. Furthermore if you play PvP not always you have time to get all of them.
Regarding the Adventure map elements - Astrologer currently does not work (by default in Vanilla), I think cartopgraher was removed because it gives unfair advantage.  War academies are around try bigger maps.
Artifact merchants - not sure about those @Magno could help with this.
roymend said:
2. As I said, the new artifacts are fun and have effects more interesting than the vanilla artifacts. But it seems to me that now I find the new artifacts almost exclusively. In my games I have seen so many artifacts of the legion and the resource artifacts, but I miss the old ring of lightning protection, cloak of sylanna and sack of endless gold - I haven't seen them at all!

One of the Endless sacks is swapped with Horn of Plenty.
The other artifacts are now just more rare because the total number of the artifacts is greater. Actually it was quite boring to have 5 same artifacts of each type.
roymend said:
3. The wizard has only 30% spellpower. This was acceptable in vanilla, but now that spellpower is so much more important, a magic class with only 30% in spellpower is too weak in my opinion. (a possible fix is to have 35& spellpower, the 5% from defense, and make one of the creatures able to increase the wizard's spellpower druid-style.)

Spellpower is OK. Now magics are a lot more powerful and scale better with SP. I am playing wizzard now and SP is just fine. Plus knowledge has a lot of benefits here. Explore it .
roymend said:
4. There's no proper magic class that specializes in light magic. The wizard comes closest, but as I said, he's to weak. The paladin is balanced, not magic. So you don't really have a proper class for light magic, you can only use light magic with classes that are geared toward other types of magic, which is disappointing. I see two ways to fix that. One, get rid of the heretic, and instead have a proper cleric, with a focus on light magic. Two, give the elementalist another name and make him specialize in summoning and light magic, instead of summoning and destructive.

First of all light and dark schools are less Spell power dependant. Thus Might classes can favor a little magic as well. Paladin is very strong light caster combined with his strong defense. Did you even try him?
roymend said:
5. This may be just me, but the guards in battle sites now seem to scale too much with time - their size is fine at the beginning, but they become undefeatable in the late game.

This was scaled down in RC1 already.. Even with 1 town population I wipe sites away. We still test it though if we find any issues it can be further adjusted.

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roymend
roymend

Tavern Dweller
posted August 25, 2015 09:51 AM
Edited by roymend at 10:00, 25 Aug 2015.

dredknight said:
The other artifacts are now just more rare because the total number of the artifacts is greater. Actually it was quite boring to have 5 same artifacts of each type.


I agree, it really was boring to have many duplicates of the same artifacts in vanilla. What I said is that the mod didn't really change that - at least in the games I played I find legion artifacts and resource artifacts, all the time. In my current game, for example, I already have 3 decrees of the legion, 2 registers of the legion, 3 resource artifacts - and I haven't even captured a single enemy town yet. On the other hand, I found almost nothing from the 'old' artifacts. Similar things happened in my other games.
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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 25, 2015 10:36 AM
Edited by dredknight at 10:52, 25 Aug 2015.

Currently playing and see much variation. Depends on map probably.

@Magno, Pendant of Mastery description does not specify Wizzard bonus.

I guess it is the old one reduction in prices.


I saw it.
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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted August 25, 2015 10:38 AM

roymend said:
dredknight said:
The other artifacts are now just more rare because the total number of the artifacts is greater. Actually it was quite boring to have 5 same artifacts of each type.


I agree, it really was boring to have many duplicates of the same artifacts in vanilla. What I said is that the mod didn't really change that - at least in the games I played I find legion artifacts and resource artifacts, all the time. In my current game, for example, I already have 3 decrees of the legion, 2 registers of the legion, 3 resource artifacts - and I haven't even captured a single enemy town yet. On the other hand, I found almost nothing from the 'old' artifacts. Similar things happened in my other games.


I find old and new stuff alike. Guess one needs a greater pool of games to come to conclusions.

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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted August 25, 2015 12:37 PM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
Regarding Tent (especially Plague Tent) - is there a way to increase its Ammo? Or will it stuck at 6 when having Expert War Machines, Tent and Plague Tent?
If not, any intentions of raising its ammo? Or is it not possible?


It is possible, once it was 10, but people found it too powerful, then moved back to 6. I'm comfortable with 6, but would like a small boost in healing power.


I played a bit with Jeddit (having Tent Special), and I don't see how it could be overpowered, personally.
After Month 2, the Tent is becoming pretty insignificant, especially the Plague Tent (Hero is only lvl 20, though). My Balliste (skilled Ballista and Flaming Arrows) deals roughly double the damage and has unlimited ammo.
The game before I played a Ballista Hero (though Inferno), and was able to obliterate Armies far greater then the armies I can defeat now, while still retaining my starting army.

I can understand that the revive effect is powerful, but that is limited to early game. Afterwards, you get Regeneration, raise dead/Resurrection or Vampirism. With the Holy Garment you can also resurrect your army partly. In exchange, you can't boost your tent in any way.

The mana regeneration from the Plague Tent becomes usless in Month 2+, after aquiring more than 10 Knowlegde. It doesn't really justify the skill, and I already thought about unlearning it.
After all, it deals less damage than my Ballista and can't be used against undead, mechanical or elemental enemies. Additionally, it wastes precious ammo which may be needed to raise some small causalities.

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