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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 392 pages long: 1 50 ... 69 70 71 72 73 ... 100 150 200 250 300 350 392 · «PREV / NEXT»
Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 09, 2015 06:48 PM

ldongder said:
magnomagus said:
ldongder said:
Hi MagnoŁ¬

Can give your idea for not adding a percentage of fire proof for Inferno troops?
As inferno is born in fire they should have at leaf some fire-proof ability.
So I guess this is again the balance issue?



Yes, also only available option is 50% fireproof


So do you plan to add this 50% fire proof and weaken the inferno troops otherwise ?



A  very bad idea. Reasoning?
Inferno would be too weak. Little opponents (creatures and enemy heroes) use fire. Thus, they need to have its stats not that much reduced.
But they now have 50% Fire protection. One class of Inferno stands at the top: The one who has access to Armageddon. It will be the class people will pick most of the time, because Armageddon will be the only way to use the Fire Proof.

So, if you make Inferno too weak, everyone will only play Armageddon Heroes, since Inferno would suck otherwise.
Making them comparable to other factions would give them an enourmous egde when using Armageddon. It will be half way to autowin.

All in all, it would favour one class far too strongly to be balanced. Additionally it will be extremly hard to find a balance where they won't get owned by everything while not using Armageddon and owning everything with the use of Armageddon. It's simply not worth it, no matter how much sense it would make

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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 10, 2015 03:01 AM

magnomagus said:

In both TOE and H55 a secondary skill slot is roughly equal in value to 2 primary skills. Attack boosts damage by 3.33%, therefore 3 levels of offense = 3* 6.66% = 20%. You only need 3 morale to already top that with retribution = 3*2.5 = 7.5% for one skillslot. Retribution is therefore an above average perk.




I have a question - do skills like Expert Attack or Fiery Wrath give a bonus for base damage or final damage?
If they modify final damage, Expert Attack wouldn't always be equal to 6 attack points.

Say A - D = 15, so damage is 150%. Would Expert attack add 20% (for a final 170% {equivalent to 6 more attack}) or multiply by 1.2 (for a final 180% {equivalent to 9 more attack})?

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matod
matod


Adventuring Hero
posted October 10, 2015 08:57 AM

Hello , i would like to ask about campaigns , are the new heroes include with skills? are the scripts new or old? is the AI improved? is there some readme about this?

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 10, 2015 11:00 AM
Edited by Pavijan at 11:02, 10 Oct 2015.

dredknight said:


Hello @Pavijan welcome .
Did you try to change the compatibility mode of the exe file to windows 7?

Check this:

http://www.windows10forums.com/articles/compatibility-mode.7/


dabuthegreat said:

Or drivers... or directx... or anything at all that changed.

Tried running it as admin?



Yes, I did, tried Win7 and Win XP SP3 compatibility, and "Run as administrator" in both cases with no success.  Drivers and Direct X, at first were the old ones from Windows 7, because I did an upgrade to Win 10. Later I installed the new ones specifically for Win 10 and nothing changed.

Ah well, never mind, it seams that it's no Heroes 5.5 for me until I fix my desktop and install Windows 7 there... (I'm currently using only laptop and wold hate to reinstall system on it).

I just wanted to notify you of this so you don't get surprised if happens to someone else.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 10, 2015 01:44 PM

Quote:
Say A - D = 15, so damage is 150%. Would Expert attack add 20% (for a final 170% {equivalent to 6 more attack}) or multiply by 1.2 (for a final 180% {equivalent to 9 more attack})?


In H5 it multiplies, in H3 it adds. The deviation on average is however not something worry much about, also with defense it has the opposite effect, it get a little weaker with large differences.
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 10, 2015 02:37 PM

Raise dead...
IMO its too powerful and too weak at the same time.
It starts extremly high, enabling one to resurrect whole stacks as a Level 1 guy, but in the end it needs 8 Spellpower before doubling its value.
At the same time, raising it to expert does not yield much merit. The reduction of health doesn't change whetever you use it with no mastery or with expert mastery.

TL;DR:
- reduce the initial resurrection value, increase the gain by SP.
60 + 30; 90 + 45; 120 + 60, 180 + 90?
It needs now more then 3 SP before reaching/surpassing the current healing. Afterwards it gets stronger.
Else: 30 + 30; 45 + 45; 60 + 60; 90 + 90;

- change duration to:
0 ; 0,0025 ; 0,005 ; 0,01.
Now you get a raise out of it if you skill expert Summoning Magic, though you now need to invest into it.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 10, 2015 03:51 PM

The current values are actually same as resurrection which is lvl5 spell. You shouldn't be able to resurrect more than warlocks can do damage. for comparison fireball is 20x , implosion 50x. I would be thinking in direction of 35-40 max with lower base.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 10, 2015 03:53 PM

Quote:
Hello , i would like to ask about campaigns , are the new heroes include with skills? are the scripts new or old? is the AI improved? is there some readme about this?


changes is mainly bug fixing, otherwise everything like the other parts of the game
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 10, 2015 04:31 PM

magnomagus said:
The current values are actually same as resurrection which is lvl5 spell. You shouldn't be able to resurrect more than warlocks can do damage. for comparison fireball is 20x , implosion 50x. I would be thinking in direction of 35-40 max with lower base.

I could say that you have artifacts and skills which boost spell damage, but I agree. Though I rather think that Destro is on the weak side, IMO. Could be because I favour huge-impossible maps where you meet your enemy the first time when more than a month has passed.

Still, at least change the duration thing. It unnerves me, that skilling Summoning Magic wields not that big of a merit compared to no skill at all - the health reduction is an important factor in drawn out battles.

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devilfire
devilfire


Adventuring Hero
posted October 10, 2015 09:19 PM

@dabuthegreat I don`t know the numbers but here is what the skill wheel says "Circle of Winter has the effect divided between the targets".

The formula for single target is 0.3*10/initiative, so I assume it would be 0.15*10/initiative for 2 targets and 0.10*10/initiative for 3 etc.

@idonger thematically the fire resistance is absolutely fitting for demons (and I had that idea long ago). But gameplay wise it would be too powerful against Mages because their Imps already drain a lot of mana (which is not that big deal in 5.5 because there are more ways to replenish it in combat, but still..), so the Mages won`t have that much casts before they reach zero and having fire resistance would be overkill. Maybe Shatter Destruction would make a sense without being too powerful.

@Magnomagus I checked Hangvul, Bart and Kastone (yeah .. its a little late but I had no way to enter the game these days) and its not what I ment. They got unusual starting skills, but others from their class can still learn them..

If you don`t like the idea of certain heroes having unique secondary skills for their classes I won`t push it anymore.

The perk Celestial Shield (former Runic Armour) is the last perk from Shatter Destruction skill tree. The problem is the spell that it gives is very Spellpower dependant, while only Might and few Balanced classes have access to it, which have very limited SP.

Can you give something that Stronghold can use in the place of the perks that give spells that they can`t in the new patch ?


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 11, 2015 03:16 PM

Quote:
Still, at least change the duration thing. It unnerves me, that skilling Summoning Magic wields not that big of a merit compared to no skill at all - the health reduction is an important factor in drawn out battles.


the duration was balanced for expert level, so i would make lower levels weaker.

Quote:
Can you give something that Stronghold can use in the place of the perks that give spells that they can`t in the new patch ?


The game has reached ID limit


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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 11, 2015 05:10 PM

IMO some Buffs/Debuffs are too ... static.
One example is Sorrow:
You need 10 SP to let it last one turn more. Wow. But 10 more in attack would be far better in 90% of the cases.

As to speak: It doesn't really change whetever you cast it on a Warlock or you take a Knight, who has next to no SP but expert Dark magic.

So, how about changing the effect from
<Item>
<Base>4</Base>
<PerPower>0</PerPower>
</Item>

to

<Item>
<Base>3</Base>
<PerPower>0.1</PerPower>
</Item>

This way, you would need at least 10 SP to be on the normal level (which is perfectly doable for any Hero), but after aquiring 20 SP you get an upside. Maybe its a bit too strong anf should be 0.05, though you would need 40 SP which is a bit too much in that case. Dunno.

Berserk is another thing: It is already strong. Making it even stronger with SP would be unreasonable. So, maybe weakening it?

<duration>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.01</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.02</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.035</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.05</PerPower>
</Item>
</duration>

Upside with more then 20 SP.  



Some other spells:
- Deflect Missiles (you need 90 SP to be immune against ranged attacks? Wow. In case of Confuse, you only need 40 SP)
- Dispel? (Dunno. maybe increasing the gain through SP so that you can use it without light or with lower mastery reasonable when aquiring a lot of SP?)
- Regeneration? (it starts pretty high. And in lategame, even if your T7 regenerates for 300% each turn, its not that OP to revive 3 creatures. And its only useful for living, so no Vampirism or Elementals)
- Bless and Weakness ... ? (It's ... complicated. Everything would be a nerf because it is already at 100%. though the duration could be slightly buffed for expert)
- Phantom Army. Urgh. The only thing you can adjust is the Tier Level which can be cloned. Sure, you could make something like
<Item>
<Base>6</Base>
<PerPower>0.05</PerPower>
</Item>
Making it a requirement of 20 SP to clone a T7. But its one of the few really powerful abilities from Summoning regarding 'buffing' your own Army. Not sure here.
- Resurrect and Animate Dead. Though I adressed that already



BTW, ever thought about including some ... stronger specials? Like Avatar of Death? Of course, the Heroes who will have such a special need a handicap. For example, not a single stat point or skill when starting ^^

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted October 11, 2015 11:02 PM
Edited by dredknight at 23:03, 11 Oct 2015.

Hello Nordos,
if you check the first 30-40 pages of this thread you will see that most of the things you ask are already discussed quite extensively there. Here are the outcome results we came upon.

Nordos said:
IMO some Buffs/Debuffs are too ... static.
One example is Sorrow:
You need 10 SP to let it last one turn more. Wow. But 10 more in attack would be far better in 90% of the cases.

As to speak: It doesn't really change whetever you cast it on a Warlock or you take a Knight, who has next to no SP but expert Dark magic.

So, how about changing the effect from
<Item>
<Base>4</Base>
<PerPower>0</PerPower>
</Item>

to

<Item>
<Base>3</Base>
<PerPower>0.1</PerPower>
</Item>

This way, you would need at least 10 SP to be on the normal level (which is perfectly doable for any Hero), but after aquiring 20 SP you get an upside. Maybe its a bit too strong anf should be 0.05, though you would need 40 SP which is a bit too much in that case. Dunno.


1. First and foremost the idea behind light and dark magic is to be a little bit more accessible for heroes with not so much SP. So some magics like Sorrow, Devine strength, etc.. are meant to be strong on their own but their effectiveness to depend on the duration. Low duration means that might hero will loose more turns to cast it then Magic. Which seems quite legit.

Nordos said:
Berserk is another thing: It is already strong. Making it even stronger with SP would be unreasonable. So, maybe weakening it?

<duration>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.01</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.02</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.035</PerPower>
</Item>
<Item>
<Base>0</Base>
<PerPower>0.05</PerPower>
</Item>
</duration>

Upside with more then 20 SP.

2.Berserk or Frenzy is quite OK spell as it is now. The only OP issue is that it stays for 2 turns. I think Magno tried adjusting it to 1 but the game didnt pick the change unfortunately.

Nordos said:
Some other spells:
- Deflect Missiles (you need 90 SP to be immune against ranged attacks? Wow. In case of Confuse, you only need 40 SP)

3.Deflect is a mass spell while Confusion is area spell.
Nordos said:
- Dispel? (Dunno. maybe increasing the gain through SP so that you can use it without light or with lower mastery reasonable when aquiring a lot of SP?)

Check point 1 above
Nordos said:
- Regeneration? (it starts pretty high. And in lategame, even if your T7 regenerates for 300% each turn, its not that OP to revive 3 creatures. And its only useful for living, so no Vampirism or Elementals)

4. yes may be this can be adjusted a bit in favour of SP on later levels. Basically it is going to be the same as Might classes ignore huge damage and have little casualties (and will revive less) while magic classes suffer great casualties (so they will revive a bit more). Not a game breaker as it is now though.
Nordos said:
- Bless and Weakness ... ? (It's ... complicated. Everything would be a nerf because it is already at 100%. though the duration could be slightly buffed for expert)

Check point 1 for answer.
Nordos said:
- Phantom Army. Urgh. The only thing you can adjust is the Tier Level which can be cloned. Sure, you could make something like
<Item>
<Base>6</Base>
<PerPower>0.05</PerPower>
</Item>
Making it a requirement of 20 SP to clone a T7. But its one of the few really powerful abilities from Summoning regarding 'buffing' your own Army. Not sure here.

Seems legit but with the current class system there is no might hero (except academy) that can get summoning so no point of making tier 7 cloning  lot-of-sp-hero-only ability.

Nordos said:
BTW, ever thought about including some ... stronger specials? Like Avatar of Death? Of course, the Heroes who will have such a special need a handicap. For example, not a single stat point or skill when starting ^^

5.Avatar of death will be either too strong or too weak. Summoning heroes begin with summon elementals now which is more or less the same but costs more mana and do not have that bad penalty when the stack dies. It seems like a good idea to add the avatar as a new spell in the summoning  school though I am not sure if it is possible to adjust.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 11, 2015 11:49 PM

I dislike avatar of death because its just a shadow dragon.
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2015 09:38 AM

As I said, I find it far too strong in comparism. After all, the stats that the Might Heroes miss in SP, they have in Defense/Offense.

I looked after the effect of the other buffs, most of them get 0.15 on expert level.
Sure, you also get duration (0.1 rounds per SP), but lets compare an imaginary Hero:

30 att, 30 def, 20 SP against 15 att, 15 def, 50 SP.

Duration of Buffs:
Hero 1: 4 turns.
Hero 2: 7 turns.

Granted that the most of these buffs/debuffs spells are mass spells, it means that you only waste a half turn to cast anyway. 4 rounds are enough most of the times, IMO.

Effect:
Hero 1: 8 + 3 = 11. His creatures have 41 def and attack increased after the buffs.
Hero 2: 8 + 7,5 = 15. His creatures get 30 more def and attack.

Now in the very few cases that they both have light and dark (ignoring the fact that they simply overcast the buffs and debuffs of the opponent):
total difference would be 2*15 - 2*11 = 8. Their starting values differ by 15.
So, yeah, the first Heroe still have the lead.


So, where is the SP extremly important in an end battle? That would be slow/haste.
Hero 1: ~32% increase, Hero 2: ~0,42%.
I don't really believe that this can offset the difference in Might and Defense, though.

Especially when Hero 1 comes with mass weakness/bless. Since they are always on full level, it simply means that the Caster has no advantage over it. Ignoring it to cast other buffs? Well, to ignore weakness can be your downfall (25 - 50% less damage from your troops) ...


Well, that is how I see it. Sure, there are spells like Divine Jugdment, Frenzy or Puppetmaster which you can cast more often in a drawn out battle if you have more SP (buffs are nearly double as long), but if we were to ignore buffs and only use Frenzy, the Might Hero would have an advantage again (since you effectively disable one or two stacks, the others fight against your enemy's and would wreak far more havoc then the Caster's one)



@Magno: It doesn't need to be a Shadow Dragon. Though if you change the base creature (for example to a lich), the animation when they get summoned is slightly .... funny, since there is no animation at all. Its the model of the creature ... ^^

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farfromrefuge
farfromrefuge


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2015 10:49 AM

Hi!

Magus, I am sorry, but even after extensive play I still can not get into this mod - I like my HoMM V staying HoMM V and not a mishmash of III, IV and WoG. I feel like HoMM V skill system is much superior to any other HoMM game and spreading it into classes kills any possibility of randomness and mastery of choice.

On the other hand, there are lots of features I like, mainly:

* Unique visuals for skirmish heroes. Don't like your new heroes, though - NHF does it better for my taste. I am currently translating that mod in English, but your models are still much better.
* Ability to refuse a training in a witch's hut. It's a much needed feature for every HoMM game and I love that you found a way to finally implement it.
* Bigger battlefields in banks. Would love to have them on usual battlemaps too. Chance to deploy 7 stacks of large creatures is a much needed feature too.

Unfortunately, neither of those features are available separately. Could you please release them for players who like to play regular HoMM V? Or at least just the first two, since the last one might be a part of the bigger structure in your mod.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 12:58 PM

farfromrefuge said:
and spreading it into classes kills any possibility of randomness and mastery of choice.


It can be mathematically proven this statement is completely false, but I only want to point that out for the others. I know it is impossible to make everyone happy.

Quote:
* Ability to refuse a training in a witch's hut. It's a much needed feature for every HoMM game and I love that you found a way to finally implement it.


Very complex as the witch huts auto-adapt to 24 classes. Lots of work

Quote:
* Bigger battlefields in banks. Would love to have them on usual battlemaps too. Chance to deploy 7 stacks of large creatures is a much needed feature too.


Also very complex, furthermore the magic classes from TOE will be too weak in comparison to might classes too equally handle the late game resistance.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 01:01 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 13:06, 12 Oct 2015.

Quote:
@Magno: It doesn't need to be a Shadow Dragon. Though if you change the base creature (for example to a lich), the animation when they get summoned is slightly .... funny, since there is no animation at all. Its the model of the creature ... ^^


My issue is that the creature isn't unique.

@Nordos:

weird comparison, there are several factors in game making spellpower easier to get, also 30+30+50 = more total primary skill than hero 1
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farfromrefuge
farfromrefuge


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2015 01:08 PM

What about models for heroes?

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 12, 2015 01:11 PM

was there ever any news on whether Ubisoft would release Heroes 5 source code, to make even more things possible with this mod?

I think that's like the only good thing they could do to make amends after wasting seven years of series potential with Erwin's horrible productions lol
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