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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 379 pages long: 1 50 ... 70 71 72 73 74 ... 100 150 200 250 300 350 379 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 01:14 PM

I don't understand your point about models, I didn't add any new models to the game only 2 new textures for heretic and death knight, you can extract those from the pack if you want.
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2015 01:20 PM
Edited by Nordos at 13:24, 12 Oct 2015.

magnomagus said:

@Nordos:

weird comparison, there are several factors in game making spellpower easier to get, also 30+30+50 = more total primary skill than hero 1


Well, you can get att and defense equally fast - or even faster. While a library does indeed give 2 Spellpower and 2 Knowlegde, I only did look at SP.
How is it easier to gain SP? Via Occultism and Elighment?

Then what about the offense and defense perks that give offense/defence for non-dwarf?
Cold Steel that gives 2 att?


Additionally, only because he has higher primary stats, it doesn't mean anything. A Necro with 0/0/0/100 would be far weaker then a Necro with 10/10/10/10. Even though he has 60 (!) primary stats more.
Just as an example



EDIT: And they have equal amount of primary, though? 15+15+50 = 80, 30+30+20 = 80 ....

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 01:23 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 13:26, 12 Oct 2015.

@Verriker:

I wasn't really involved with that request, but as I pointed out previously Quantomas is the one who has the really interesting sources on his hard drive, not Ubisoft.

Quote:
Additionally, only because he has higher primary stats, it doesn't mean anything. A Necro with 0/0/0/100 would be far weaker then a Necro with 10/10/10/10. Even though he has 60 (!) primary stats more.
Just as an example


True, but 30/30/50/20 is not necessarily worse than 41/41/20/20
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farfromrefuge
farfromrefuge


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2015 01:25 PM
Edited by farfromrefuge at 13:26, 12 Oct 2015.

verriker said:
was there ever any news on whether Ubisoft would release Heroes 5 source code, to make even more things possible with this mod?

I think that's like the only good thing they could do to make amends after wasting seven years of series potential with Erwin's horrible productions lol


You wish... Even HoMM III source code is not completely available (even to Ubi) and you are talking about HoMM V. Nival may have it still, but since they are bound to Ubi by old contract, they won't release it either. And Ubi knows that the moment source code hits the web, they would have to actually try to make new HoMM games, since modders would put HoMM V to the pedestal never reached before.

Also, magnomagus, I am sorry if I came too harsh on the skill system, but I prefer an ability to choose at all points, not only at one. Choosing a class puts you on a preset, however varied it may be, while original system offers a complete selection of skills. Yes, there is a chance that you would get some relative rubbish, but the beauty of HoMM V was that you could make any rubbish work by changing your tactics. In MMH5.5 I just don't feel the same level of challenge anymore - each class feels like it is already balanced for apparent playstyle. If I want to play as a Might character with Magic skills (Summoning Knight, for example), I just can't.

About models - got it, must have been some other mod. Somehow I thought it was MMH5.5 that added them.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 01:35 PM

Quote:
Also, magnomagus, I am sorry if I came too harsh on the skill system, but I prefer an ability to choose at all points, not only at one. Choosing a class puts you on a preset, however varied it may be, while original system offers a complete selection of skills. Yes, there is a chance that you would get some relative rubbish, but the beauty of HoMM V was that you could make any rubbish work by changing your tactics. In MMH5.5 I just don't feel the same level of challenge anymore - each class feels like it is already balanced for apparent playstyle. If I want to play as a Might character with Magic skills (Summoning Knight, for example), I just can't.


Thats fine, you should play the game you way you want, but a summoning knight only works versus weak AI players, in competitive play it is not a viable build. A summoning paladin however could work (but still a bit tough), so in H55 you can just switch class and do it better. Also I could say the opposite about TOE, you cannot play a shatter dark or shatter summoning knight in TOE.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 12, 2015 01:37 PM

magnomagus said:
I wasn't really involved with that request, but as I pointed out previously Quantomas is the one who has the really interesting sources on his hard drive, not Ubisoft.


yeah, I wish somebody would release something though because it would probably push Heroes 5 modding into outer space, even more open to customization than H3 lol

farfromrefuge said:
You wish... Even HoMM III source code is not completely available (even to Ubi) and you are talking about HoMM V. Nival may have it still, but since they are bound to Ubi by old contract, they won't release it either. And Ubi knows that the moment source code hits the web, they would have to actually try to make new HoMM games, since modders would put HoMM V to the pedestal never reached before.


well Ubisoft was not involved in creating Heroes 3 source code, so that's not the best counter point (actually the fact they do still archive some ancient H3 source code from 1999 stands in favor of them also having their own, newer material of 2006) lol

I think your point about selfish motives being part of not releasing it is more than likely true, though lol
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2015 01:41 PM

magnomagus said:
@Verriker:

I wasn't really involved with that request, but as I pointed out previously Quantomas is the one who has the really interesting sources on his hard drive, not Ubisoft.

Quote:
Additionally, only because he has higher primary stats, it doesn't mean anything. A Necro with 0/0/0/100 would be far weaker then a Necro with 10/10/10/10. Even though he has 60 (!) primary stats more.
Just as an example


True, but 30/30/50/20 is not necessarily worse than 41/41/20/20


But now the first Hero has more primary stats ;P the Diference is (41-30)*2 = 22, if you add 22 to 20 you get 44. So, he has 6 more primary stats.

And while you may get a bit moore Spellpower, that is only true if you skill Occultism. I personally avoid skilling it altogether, since it gives next to no advantage for dark/light/summoning. (since I don't play Destro)

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 01:49 PM

Quote:
But now the first Hero has more primary stats ;P


That was exactly my point, the magic hero does not drop his spellpower after buffing his creatures.

Quote:
And while you may get a bit moore Spellpower, that is only true if you skill Occultism. I personally avoid skilling it altogether, since it gives next to no advantage for dark/light/summoning. (since I don't play Destro)


Math disagrees with you as every slot is supposed to be roughly equal to 2 primary stats, on top of that irresistible dark magic is not a bad idea + the consume corpse branch is universal.
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2015 02:25 PM

Consume Corpses is vastly inferior compared to Soul Link, IMO. As far as I am concerned anyway.

Irrestible Dark - using a whole Skillslot for it? I rather will take Offense, Defence or similar.
and SP is of no relevance when comparing the army. So if his army is still weaker even after both using all Buffs at their disposal (which need time and mana to set up as well), then that only emphatize my point. The only great advantage a Spellhero has, is Sorcery, meaning, that you can Buff/Debuff vastly faster then your enemy is able to.

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farfromrefuge
farfromrefuge


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2015 02:42 PM

Nordos said:
Consume Corpses is vastly inferior compared to Soul Link, IMO. As far as I am concerned anyway.

Irrestible Dark - using a whole Skillslot for it? I rather will take Offense, Defence or similar.
and SP is of no relevance when comparing the army. So if his army is still weaker even after both using all Buffs at their disposal (which need time and mana to set up as well), then that only emphatize my point. The only great advantage a Spellhero has, is Sorcery, meaning, that you can Buff/Debuff vastly faster then your enemy is able to.


I don't know about MMH5.5, but in vanilla this can easily cost you an army. Because he may not only buff/debuff, he may also easily turn your army on itself, while his warriors will chill out and shoot from afar.

Look, Confusion>Berserk (or Berserk>Confusion if you have some dangerous speedsters) is already a big pain in the ass and it's only AoE, we have not touched Mass spells yet. Because if your Tier 6 or Tier 7 got themselves Berserked - you can kiss one of the stacks goodbye. And as long as your enemy has enough mana to sustain the spell - you are fighting yourself. You won't even be able to dispell most of those, since the enemy has Spellpower. Actually, if you are playing against speedy Necro - he won't even need to worry about mana, since Mark of the Necromancer exists and is cool.

And once he finally runs out of mana, his completely inferior, but somehow mostly untouched troops demolish your oh so superior ones.

Morale: Don't underestimate Spellcasters. They do lead inferior troops, but they can destroy much stronger armies too, unless you are very cautious.

@magnomagus: Hm, I didn't look at it like that. I may try it again, once my mostly vanilla HoMM V starts boring me. Good luck with development!

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 02:53 PM

Quote:
Consume Corpses is vastly inferior compared to Soul Link, IMO. As far as I am concerned anyway.


But you will not always have soullink

Quote:
Irrestible Dark - using a whole Skillslot for it? I rather will take Offense, Defence or similar. and SP is of no relevance when comparing the army.


Why would I only compare armies without heroes, your post doesn't make sense. Expert occultism = 3 slots = 6SP/3 = 2 per slot which means these slots are valuable even without any further enhancements.
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Nordos
Nordos


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2015 02:59 PM
Edited by Nordos at 15:02, 12 Oct 2015.

But thats only true for as long as puppetmaster and frenzy works (undead, Titans, Shield of the Dwarven King). After all, Might Heroes have access to mass Confusion as well
Sure, you can maintain your buffs better then the enemy - but you still need to cast Mark of the Necromancer (which I meant, not Soul Link^^) which also costs half a turn.

Don't worry, I don't underestimate them. My favourite faction is Necro after all.

Then again, even though I had frenzy, even though I played against Barbarian and had a superior army-count - I lost. Never underestimte buffed shamans ^^

Since if half a stacks dies in one attack from another stack, while your own stacks only kill less then a third... Even if you crowdcontrol 2 creatures at a time, the rest are enough to simply turn your troops into ashes, if the Hero is far too superior regarding att/def

EDIT: I don't agree there, magno. It may be a approximation, but if your troops get only 2/3 third damage, it is simply better then having a bit more SP which mostly change Duration and only slightly strenghten your buffs/debuffs. It simply is inferior.
And yes, I prefer Expert Defense over 6 primary stats if you have more then 80 in total.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 12, 2015 03:08 PM

@Nordos:

I think your side of the discussion is too much focused on specific necro builds and spells on a huge map.

My job is to make all skillslots and tree branches roughly equal in value or otherwise useful for all factions and possible map sizes.

I can make a irresitable+summoning+dark build work for various classes, if you disagree with some skills for your necro build that's fine.
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wayn3R
wayn3R

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2015 07:21 PM

Cant start HoMM 5

I just installed the 5.5 rc2 pack but cant start the game. I cant find a readme sadly how 2 fix. Is it needed 2 patch the game or smth ? Its the first time I try this mod so pls forgive me. I played through HoMM 7 the last days but need filler time until patch comes. And 5.5 looks awesome on paper. Help would be appreciated.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 13, 2015 07:38 PM

patch 3.1 is required (as the installer told you) also the installer cannot autopick the right folder so check if it was really targeted to your TOE install folder.
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wayn3R
wayn3R

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2015 07:50 PM

Forgive my dumbness. Ty alot i'll try it out.
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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted October 13, 2015 07:55 PM

Magno another bug. Faction is dungeon, the hero is Sorgal level 33.
Bite damge should be 1.1 + 0.005*33=1.265 times normal damage. So basically he does more damage while he bites. Though the real data shows otherwise.

His specialization does not seem to be working.
Here a screenshot of right clicking on the unit in battle. The bonus from specialization is not seen.

Second we did a test. I put the rider next to a Thane so no defense reduction bonus apply to the calculation.

359 riders directly hit a thane - 4325 damage is dealt
359 riders bite a thane -  3576
359 riders bite a thane second time - 2716

Same goes with bersekers:
154 die on hit.
119 die on bite.

I have replays but I want to do the same battle with Another hero who is not specialized in riders so I can see the difference.

I will upload all replays then.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 13, 2015 08:51 PM

@dredknight, according to manual lizard bite does 50% without spec, but in your examples he does more than that so I think you calculated desired result wrong. the spec is not supposed to show with icon.
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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted October 13, 2015 09:00 PM
Edited by dredknight at 21:20, 13 Oct 2015.

I assume retribution (7*2.5%) is not valid on bite and this make the calculation incorrect.

Anyway I will still do the tests for the sake of testing...

Other stuff:

Rider charge is way too strong. I managed to kill (with luck) 132 firelords in a single hit (from 8 squares distance).  Without luck the number is 100-118.

Same goes with dragons - 65 Fortress dragons in 1 hit.

Rider charge is 20% per square which is huge...  cut it by half for starters.
This is the row in statsxdb:
<RiderCharge_DefenceReducePerPathCell>0.2</RiderCharge_DefenceReducePerPathCell>
point 2 - Vengeance is still quite strong even in the mid fight.
Hero with 20+ sp did 6k damage...

I suggest changing the frag multiplier from 2/4/6/8 to 1/1/2/3 for starters. If you want we can set those values and test it we have a load save with quite huge armies. (2 towns each with dwellings.Battle is on month 4)
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 13, 2015 09:39 PM

I thin kyour right about rider charge, for vengeance I need replay because it depends on whether the victim smartly focused on taking down high level creatures first.

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