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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 03:32 PM |
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Why pay the wall, make the Mexicans pay it and if they refuse, send them back the ~30 millions illegals + cut the 400 millions of economical aid, they will realize that going wall is the thing to do. Such issues are simple but require a functional brain, not brainwashed by liberal PC.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2018 03:38 PM |
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Edited by artu at 15:39, 27 Feb 2018.
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You realize that 30 million illegals is not a favor from U.S. to Mexico, they are able to go in because a lot of people in the U.S. also prefer the cheap labor, right?
Zenofex said:
fred79 said:
china is a completely different culture and environment; those people are RULED OVER by their government, and they aren't allowed to own firearms(guess why one makes the other possible?). that's not even close to a decent rebuttal, man.
We are talking about mass shootings, right? So, Chinese are not allowed to own firearms (not sure if this is true in all cases but that's beside the point) and they don't have mass shootings despite what you said that "it's a matter of quantity" or whatever. I really don't want to get myself involved in one of those ridiculous arguments how the average US citizen will protect his freedom from the government with shotguns vs. tanks and aircraft but ruling out the "oppression" factor the statistics is quite obvious - less guns per capita = less fatalities from madmen deciding to have fun or whatever.
Let's say China doesnt count because... oppression. When you think proportionally (not in numbers but ratios), there is much much much less gun violence in any democracy also. Are people in Denmark or Canada or Spain oppressed? I'm tired of repeating this but even comparisons among states of America within give the same results. But of course, if you label any research you dont like as "anti-gun propaganda," you will keep on wondering why people don't get you!
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 03:44 PM |
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artu said:
You realize that 30 million illegals is not a favor from U.S. to Mexico, they are able to go in because a lot of people in the U.S. also prefer the cheap labor, right?
Cheap labor? hey hey, are you saying that illegals serving the interests of those trying to keep low wages?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2018 03:49 PM |
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I'm saying, when you're an illegal immigrant, you dont have rights such as minimum wage or insurance and a lot of employers prefer it that way.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 04:03 PM |
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There are not ~30 million undocumented immigrants in the usa, best estimates are at 11 million. Only half of them are Mexican. So your number is only 6 times too big 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 06:00 PM |
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It was 12 millions in 2007 and Pew estimates it as reducing each year (lol). The same PEW which estimated our muslim population in France at 4% while muslims themselves are stating they need more mosques, because there are 15-20 millions. The same pew which said there are 37% muslims in french prisons, but then we found that 65% of inmates were asking halal meat. At such point, such "official" numbers are just as true as the ideology behind, utter rubbish.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 06:22 PM |
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Sheesh, Sal, learn READING, for frag's sake. The estimated an INFLUX reduction, not a total number reduction.
Your bias is seriously affecting your mental capacities. And I MEAN that.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 06:35 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Your bias is seriously affecting your mental capacities. And I MEAN that.
so are yours, minions, and artu's, regarding the actual topic in this thread. what's your point?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 06:46 PM |
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You don't want me to answer that.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 06:57 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Sheesh, Sal, learn READING, for frag's sake. The estimated an INFLUX reduction, not a total number reduction.
Your bias is seriously affecting your mental capacities. And I MEAN that.
Sorry? Pew estimates illegal aliens at 12 millions in 2007, then 11 millions in 2017, so defining the total number as "reduced" is being mentally disabled? May I ask where you learn your maths?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 07:06 PM |
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That's because there was an influx reduction from 850.000 to 300.000, while at the same time more than 300.000 illegals per year a) got legal; b) died; c) were expelled.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 07:20 PM |
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That's not the point I was making, which was that Pew estimating the number of illegal aliens reduced from 2007 to 2017 is bull and a lie based on loopholes. Those institutes, both in Europe and USA, take in consideration the 14th amendment, where every born on that country soil is automatically naturalized. You had a full generation back in 2007, and of course now we are at second generation, which is part of Daca conflict. And those numbers are not added in the census because of the amendment, despite the fact that they DO NOT have citizenship, as not declared yet.
Let's imagine I steal 1 million dollars, then I buy 10 cars with the money, then I get caught. Are the cars mines or not?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 07:33 PM |
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No, your number of 30 million is a complete bull and a lie. The DACA recipients are only 700,000 in total. Not even 1 million.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 07:40 PM |
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Daca is only a snip of what is the big picture. If you think that 11 millions people only had 700 000 kids in 10 years then poor countries are obviously sending only sterile people.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 07:41 PM |
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No, there is no RULE about automatic citizenship.
Wiki says:
Quote:
Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy, contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[7][13][14][15][16] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[7][17][18][19][20][21]
There is no evidence that illegal immigration increases the rate of crime in the United States.[22] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[23][24] Sanctuary cities – which adopt policies designed to not prosecute people solely for being in the country illegally – have no statistically meaningful impact on crime.[25] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[26][27][25]
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What was your point?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 07:47 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
You don't want me to answer that.
woo. sounds intimidating. 
you guys are really off-topic now.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 07:49 PM |
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Yup, Sal is at his favorite issue.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 07:51 PM |
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Well, would be nice you go off from automatic response mode and you document yourself because its becoming a big annoying and time not worth to get back again and again.
14th amendment:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The total excludes an estimated 4.2 million American-born children of illegal aliens. These children of illegal aliens are, under the current interpretation of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, U.S. citizens. While not counted as illegal aliens, they are a significant part of illegal immigration’s fiscal impact on the U.S. taxpayer, as noted in FAIR's most recent fiscal cost study.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 08:04 PM |
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Yes, but there is no actual rule about AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP, which is something else and probably the only reason you come up with that.
However, being born by an illegal in the US doesn't grant mother or father anything - so if there ARE any costs, then they come with making the child offical, which leads to expelling the illegal parents/mother...
Also - why debate US immigration laws and politics in a mass shootings in the US thread? There is no connection.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 08:06 PM |
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So where do you get that 30 million? The site you linked had the number at 12.5 million.
Edit: Ok I googled it, lol, I should have guessed. TRUMP MADE IT UP! And you are parroting it? Seriously Sal??? 
Figures from independent organizations that study immigration are all in the same ballpark at least
Dept. of Homeland Security
11.4 million
Pew Research Center
11.2 million
Center for Migration Studies
11.1 million
Center for Immigration Studies
11 to 12 million
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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This thread is pages long: 
