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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 143 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 120 ... 121 122 123 124 125 ... 140 143 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 31, 2020 07:56 AM

BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted March 31, 2020 03:13 PM

Lord_Immortal said:
We do not need to have a proper plot but the HotA team can make a story about the founding of the Necromancers' Guild by Sandro and Thant seen by the viewpoint of the Dark Elves. That or adapt the story of M&M8 into a campaign, which would be cool considering that you would be able to visit several factions from the Dark Elf perspecitve. 1st mission you start with Lizardmen and you have to conquer the Abbandoned Temple (a fortress town), 2nd mission you have your first Dark elf town (Ravenshore) and have to defeat the smugglers and so on.

Not that I think it likely HotA will do a Dark Elf/Jadame town (even if they have mentioned Jadame in the campaigns), but if we want another connection for purported campaigns: Regna is not so far from Jadame, and there have been multiple Pirate Wars...

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 31, 2020 04:09 PM

LordInsane said:
Lord_Immortal said:
We do not need to have a proper plot but the HotA team can make a story about the founding of the Necromancers' Guild by Sandro and Thant seen by the viewpoint of the Dark Elves. That or adapt the story of M&M8 into a campaign, which would be cool considering that you would be able to visit several factions from the Dark Elf perspecitve. 1st mission you start with Lizardmen and you have to conquer the Abbandoned Temple (a fortress town), 2nd mission you have your first Dark elf town (Ravenshore) and have to defeat the smugglers and so on.

Not that I think it likely HotA will do a Dark Elf/Jadame town (even if they have mentioned Jadame in the campaigns), but if we want another connection for purported campaigns: Regna is not so far from Jadame, and there have been multiple Pirate Wars...


True. If they're gonna make another faction, it might be the dark elves and not Cathedral or Kronverk, since they do not appear in the lore. The HotA that is now basically wants to keep the game as lore friendly as possible (but Factory... they might be a faction isolated somewhere else or something).

Also, ever thought Steel Golems are actually an upgrade to Iron Golems, especially since we can't recruit them yet and Tower lacks speed? And they want to surprise us in the next update too (I doubt Factory will be the only surprise; they are probably gonna add some more nice stuff).

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 31, 2020 07:37 PM

Suggestions to change some of the original spells + few new spells.

I've always felt that there are a bunch of spells which are pretty much seeing none play. Not every spell should be top tier and always useful, but if there seems to no use for these spells, why they should exist in normal gameplay?

Firstly, I'm talking about the protection spells of all elements. They're useless against the map, and when two heroes battle, there are simply more important things to cast, as you're still only limited of casting one per turn.

So, I suggest the following: Remove all 4 spells from the Mage guilds (but leave the possibility to add them if the map maker desires.)
All these spells can still be normally obtained from Tomes, spell scrolls, shrines etc, they simply do not appear in Mage guilds. Trust me, they will not be missed.

This way, there's a bit more room for newspells to the game, without messing too much with spell probabilites. Here's some ideas:

--
New lvl 1 Water Spell

Empower

Slighly increaseses Spell Power until the end of your next spell cast.

Basic: 3 SP Advanced: 4 SP Expert: 5 SP
Spell cost: 6 mana

Gives some additional tactics, can be handy throughtout the entire game.
--

New lvl 1 Fire Spell

Ignite

Deals magic damage to the targeted enemy unit at the end of each round.
Basic: 20 dmg Advanced: 30 dmg Expert: 30 dmg + turns into mass spell.
Spell cost: 6 mana
Debuff, so +1 duration is added per each Spell power.

Poison-like effect, gives some additional boost to the fire school, while providing another way to directly damage enemies with only having access to lvl 1 spells.

--

New lvl 2 Air Spell

Gale

Pushes the selected ally or enemy unit towards the other side of the battlefield by one hex. (further away from the casting hero)
Basic:Creatures lvl 1-5 can be targeted. Advanced: Lvl 1-6 Expert: All enemy creaturues.

(anyone familiar with heroes 4's Displacement understand how this spell works)

Spell cost: 10 mana.

One of my favorite spells in Homm4 with multiple good uses. This spell only "pushes", otherwise you could open town gates and pull enemies to the moat, which is imo a bit too much.

--

New lvl 3 Earth Spell

Naturalize

Reduces enemy mana points.

Basic: 2 mana is reduced(+1 for each Spell power)
Advanced: Same as basic, but 4 mana is reduced instead.
Expert: Same as Advanced, but 6 mana is reduced instead.

Spell cost: 14 mana.

Gives some new tactical options to players.
--

Finally there's one spell I would also like to remove from the Mage guilds, within the same rules as I said above. The spell is Magic Mirror, which simply doesn't see play, kinda messes up the lvl 5 mage guild, while not even working when played against the AI. Will also be not missed. I know that the mirror is Air spell, but would like to give Water school a spell instead. Air has 4 spells in lvl 5, while Water only 1, so I think it's fair and needed:

New lvl 5 Water Spell

Steal Enchantments

Removes all "buff spell" effects from target enemy creature, then gives them to the ally creature of your choice.

Basic: The duration of the spells are the same as they were when you stole them.
Advanced: Adds +2 duration to all stolen spells
Expert: Adds +4 duration to al stolen spells instead.

Spell cost: 25 mana

Also from heroes 4, this spell is quite handy. Even if you would steal only one spell, this can be seen like pseudo-double cast, as you're both removing and adding a spell effect.

Would love to hear what you other players think about these also.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 31, 2020 08:10 PM

They seem ok. Some players would miss Prot. from Fire against Efreet Sultans, but it can still be enabled.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 01, 2020 07:53 AM

Removing "Protection from X" spells is a bad idea, you might not use them much, but the AI does and it always knows what is in your spell book.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted April 01, 2020 08:26 AM

phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2020 11:43 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Removing "Protection from X" spells is a bad idea, you might not use them much, but the AI does and it always knows what is in your spell book.


I often too, see the AI using the protection spells. IMO that doesn't really make much sense, so wouldn't it actually be a good thing, if AI's access to the protection spells was limited? Therefore it would use other spells instead, and therefore act more humanlike and better?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 01, 2020 11:54 AM

Yes and no, when it "sees" you have Meteor Shower and Implosion and the Earth Orb, it might feel like casting Protection from Earth, which will make you quite disappointed it just made your Meteor Shower and Implosion pretty useless. Or Armageddon and Fire Orb or Solmyr and Chain Lightning.
(I know in some maps even Implosion with Earth Orb might seem bad, but that is not most maps.)

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2020 11:56 AM

weilan said:
phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD


Uhh... I think he must be new to Heroes III.

As for Hourglass' proposals, I think some new spells might be nice.

On the same style of Ignite, each of the 4 schools may get spells that temporarily boost/nerf 4 primary skills during battle:

Air Magic: 1 spell that boosts Knowledge, 1 spell that reduces Defense
Earth Magic: 1 spell that boosts Defense, 1 spell that reduces Knowledge
Fire Magic: 1 spell that boosts Attack, 1 spell that reduces Spell Power
Water Magic: 1 spell that boosts Spellpower, 1 spell that reduces Attack

Also, since the HotA team wants to restore cut features of Heroes III, in the Alpha/Beta Light and Dark Magic schools are present. Some of the original spells could be moved in the new schools plus new spells can be added for schools:
Light Magic: Bless, Cure, Light Bolt, Fortune, Mirth, Magic Mirror, Prayer, Resurrection, Hour of Power, Divine Intervention
Dark Magic: Curse, Toxic Cloud, Vampiric Weapon, Animate Dead, Death Ripple, Sorrow, Control Undead, Misfortune, Armageddon, Sacrifice,

Magic Arrow divided into 4 different spells for 4 elemental schools + light bolt for Light Magic.

Water Magic gets the two spells mentioned above + Lloyd's Beacon(map spell works like M&M)
Fire Magic gets no new spells except the ones mentioned above BUT its current spells made slightly stronger.
Earth Magic gets: "Poison Weapon" - makes the unit attack poisoned like Wyvern Monarch's as well as "Petrify" which petrifies units like medusa.
Air Magic gets "Empower Mind" that gives the selected unit the attack of Psychic/Magic Elementals + No enemy retaliation.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted April 01, 2020 12:25 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:28, 01 Apr 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
Yes and no, when it "sees" you have Meteor Shower and Implosion and the Earth Orb, it might feel like casting Protection from Earth, which will make you quite disappointed it just made your Meteor Shower and Implosion pretty useless. Or Armageddon and Fire Orb or Solmyr and Chain Lightning.
(I know in some maps even Implosion with Earth Orb might seem bad, but that is not most maps.)


Or you only equip Pendant of Dispassion after loading the Autosave and then the Basic Berserk casting AI doesn't attack you anymore. This is proof the AI knows everything about you as long as it can see you That's at least Impossible difficulty AI, but Hard AI is probably the same, since the difference stands only in resources.

Lord_Immortal said:
weilan said:
phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD


Uhh... I think he must be new to Heroes III.

As for Hourglass' proposals, I think some new spells might be nice.

On the same style of Ignite, each of the 4 schools may get spells that temporarily boost/nerf 4 primary skills during battle:

Air Magic: 1 spell that boosts Knowledge, 1 spell that reduces Defense
Earth Magic: 1 spell that boosts Defense, 1 spell that reduces Knowledge
Fire Magic: 1 spell that boosts Attack, 1 spell that reduces Spell Power
Water Magic: 1 spell that boosts Spellpower, 1 spell that reduces Attack

Also, since the HotA team wants to restore cut features of Heroes III, in the Alpha/Beta Light and Dark Magic schools are present. Some of the original spells could be moved in the new schools plus new spells can be added for schools:
Light Magic: Bless, Cure, Light Bolt, Fortune, Mirth, Magic Mirror, Prayer, Resurrection, Hour of Power, Divine Intervention
Dark Magic: Curse, Toxic Cloud, Vampiric Weapon, Animate Dead, Death Ripple, Sorrow, Control Undead, Misfortune, Armageddon, Sacrifice,

Magic Arrow divided into 4 different spells for 4 elemental schools + light bolt for Light Magic.

Water Magic gets the two spells mentioned above + Lloyd's Beacon(map spell works like M&M)
Fire Magic gets no new spells except the ones mentioned above BUT its current spells made slightly stronger.
Earth Magic gets: "Poison Weapon" - makes the unit attack poisoned like Wyvern Monarch's as well as "Petrify" which petrifies units like medusa.
Air Magic gets "Empower Mind" that gives the selected unit the attack of Psychic/Magic Elementals + No enemy retaliation.


Vampiric Weapon... I wonder what that is... Maybe the next OP spell? I also agree, they can add a lot more spells. Let's not forget, they themselves confirmed that they will surely do something about spells, skills, etc. at least after Factory release (and at least on russian forum at DF2).

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted April 01, 2020 12:53 PM

FirePaladin said:
True. If they're gonna make another faction, it might be the dark elves and not Cathedral or Kronverk, since they do not appear in the lore. The HotA that is now basically wants to keep the game as lore friendly as possible (but Factory... they might be a faction isolated somewhere else or something).

Eh, refitting the basic Cathedral concept to fit what we hear of Karigor (and see of the Church of the Sun in MM8) might not be that hard, and as for Kronverk, independent dwarf factions are definitely a thing in the lore on every visited continent - even, for Enroth, in Heroes, thanks to Rocklin and Save/Slay the Dwarves in II (more so than fitting a dwarf town into the lore, I'd say the simple fact of the plain Dwarf already being in another town is the main impediment for something like Kronverk).

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted April 01, 2020 01:43 PM

LordInsane said:
FirePaladin said:
True. If they're gonna make another faction, it might be the dark elves and not Cathedral or Kronverk, since they do not appear in the lore. The HotA that is now basically wants to keep the game as lore friendly as possible (but Factory... they might be a faction isolated somewhere else or something).

Eh, refitting the basic Cathedral concept to fit what we hear of Karigor (and see of the Church of the Sun in MM8) might not be that hard, and as for Kronverk, independent dwarf factions are definitely a thing in the lore on every visited continent - even, for Enroth, in Heroes, thanks to Rocklin and Save/Slay the Dwarves in II (more so than fitting a dwarf town into the lore, I'd say the simple fact of the plain Dwarf already being in another town is the main impediment for something like Kronverk).


Thanks for reminding me the lore. I said it in the sense that Cathedral doesn't appear directly in the story (ya know, with corrupted Angels and stuff) and Kronverk is more of a "free-thought" faction, that doesn't necessarily "copy" something from the lore. Anyway, only the HotA team can answer this and tell us what they're thinking.

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
posted April 01, 2020 03:45 PM
Edited by BTB at 15:45, 01 Apr 2020.

weilan said:
phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD


See, Phoenix is just giving me snow, and I really hated even mentioning that last bit because I knew that it was the response I'd get and everyone would completely miss the point. The point is not that I need to do a better job remembering where the town hall is, the point is that there is absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be a shortcut to the build menu right next to the other primary shortcut.

(Snow...? Seriously, the profanity filter on this forum is on crack.)

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted April 01, 2020 03:47 PM

BTB said:
weilan said:
phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD


See, Phoenix is just giving me snow, and I really hated even mentioning that last bit because I knew that it was the response I'd get and everyone would completely miss the point. The point is not that I need to do a better job remembering where the town hall is, the point is that there is absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be a shortcut to the build menu right next to the other primary shortcut.

(Snow...? Seriously, the profanity filter on this forum is on crack.)


I agree. There should be such an option, and it would be good for beginners too.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 01, 2020 03:56 PM

Sorry BTB, I meant no harm.
Sure make a shortcut then, but I don't really need it.

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
posted April 01, 2020 03:56 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Sorry BTB, I meant no harm.
Sure make a shortcut then, but I don't really need it.


Heh, no worries. I knew you didn't. I just knew what the invariable responses to it would be

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2020 05:33 PM

FirePaladin said:

Vampiric Weapon... I wonder what that is... Maybe the next OP spell? I also agree, they can add a lot more spells. Let's not forget, they themselves confirmed that they will surely do something about spells, skills, etc. at least after Factory release (and at least on russian forum at DF2).


To be honest I think OP is always a matter of maths. You would probably introduce a percentage of Life Points converted that changes Basic->Adv->Expert as well as try to give it a reasonable mana cost.

Even with other spells that would be the case. For example, Hour of Power would combine the effects of Shield, Stone Skin and Bless but nerfed down let's say:
For Shield instead of 15/30/30 would be 10/20/20
For Stone Skin instead of +1/+2/+2 Def would always be +1
For Bless instead of Max/Max+1/Max+1 Damage could be Max-1/Max/Max.
And that combined with a high Mana Cost.

Divine Intervention would work like Guardian Angel ability from H5 resurrecting a certain percentage of the stack let's say 10/20/20 and so on. And the spell can fade after a certain time. But this too would cost quite a lot, and the player has to think well before casting it.

Plus, I think that some limitations might work. Such as Light Magic not available normally to Evil Factons hero classes & Mage Guilds, Dark Magic to Good Factions and as far as Neutral factions are concerned:
Stronghold and Fortress can have access to both Light and Dark magic spells in their guilds but their heroes cannot normally learn the skills.
Conflux and Cove can neither have access to Light/Dark spells nor the heroes can learn those skills.
Still wait and see for Factory.

P.S. Another spell that was scrapped from H3 can be brought back: "Fear" - as a Dark Magic spell.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted April 01, 2020 06:01 PM

Lord_Immortal said:
FirePaladin said:

Vampiric Weapon... I wonder what that is... Maybe the next OP spell? I also agree, they can add a lot more spells. Let's not forget, they themselves confirmed that they will surely do something about spells, skills, etc. at least after Factory release (and at least on russian forum at DF2).


To be honest I think OP is always a matter of maths. You would probably introduce a percentage of Life Points converted that changes Basic->Adv->Expert as well as try to give it a reasonable mana cost.

Even with other spells that would be the case. For example, Hour of Power would combine the effects of Shield, Stone Skin and Bless but nerfed down let's say:
For Shield instead of 15/30/30 would be 10/20/20
For Stone Skin instead of +1/+2/+2 Def would always be +1
For Bless instead of Max/Max+1/Max+1 Damage could be Max-1/Max/Max.
And that combined with a high Mana Cost.

Divine Intervention would work like Guardian Angel ability from H5 resurrecting a certain percentage of the stack let's say 10/20/20 and so on. And the spell can fade after a certain time. But this too would cost quite a lot, and the player has to think well before casting it.

Plus, I think that some limitations might work. Such as Light Magic not available normally to Evil Factons hero classes & Mage Guilds, Dark Magic to Good Factions and as far as Neutral factions are concerned:
Stronghold and Fortress can have access to both Light and Dark magic spells in their guilds but their heroes cannot normally learn the skills.
Conflux and Cove can neither have access to Light/Dark spells nor the heroes can learn those skills.
Still wait and see for Factory.

P.S. Another spell that was scrapped from H3 can be brought back: "Fear" - as a Dark Magic spell.


It was just a little joke, seeing how OP Vampire Lords are However, is there a possibility to lower health gain of Vampire Lords, by, for example, half?

I agree to bring back fear. I was surprised it didn't exist in H3 after playing King's Bounty.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted April 01, 2020 06:50 PM

Lord_Immortal said:
weilan said:
phoenix4ever said:
BTB said:
not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.

You need to play those towns more.

Agreed, not knowing the buildings is not an excuse. xD


Uhh... I think he must be new to Heroes III.

As for Hourglass' proposals, I think some new spells might be nice.

On the same style of Ignite, each of the 4 schools may get spells that temporarily boost/nerf 4 primary skills during battle:

Air Magic: 1 spell that boosts Knowledge, 1 spell that reduces Defense
Earth Magic: 1 spell that boosts Defense, 1 spell that reduces Knowledge
Fire Magic: 1 spell that boosts Attack, 1 spell that reduces Spell Power
Water Magic: 1 spell that boosts Spellpower, 1 spell that reduces Attack

Also, since the HotA team wants to restore cut features of Heroes III, in the Alpha/Beta Light and Dark Magic schools are present. Some of the original spells could be moved in the new schools plus new spells can be added for schools:
Light Magic: Bless, Cure, Light Bolt, Fortune, Mirth, Magic Mirror, Prayer, Resurrection, Hour of Power, Divine Intervention
Dark Magic: Curse, Toxic Cloud, Vampiric Weapon, Animate Dead, Death Ripple, Sorrow, Control Undead, Misfortune, Armageddon, Sacrifice,

Magic Arrow divided into 4 different spells for 4 elemental schools + light bolt for Light Magic.

Water Magic gets the two spells mentioned above + Lloyd's Beacon(map spell works like M&M)
Fire Magic gets no new spells except the ones mentioned above BUT its current spells made slightly stronger.
Earth Magic gets: "Poison Weapon" - makes the unit attack poisoned like Wyvern Monarch's as well as "Petrify" which petrifies units like medusa.
Air Magic gets "Empower Mind" that gives the selected unit the attack of Psychic/Magic Elementals + No enemy retaliation.


If you hover the buildings, it says what they are.

And definitely some new spells will be nice to have and some old ones that are practically useless to be given some usefulness. There is no point in having 30 spells (or whatever) if only 5 of them are useful.

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