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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 03:17 PM |
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Lord_Immortal said:
FirePaladin said:
So, where should I post all my suggestions (mostly fixing visuals and stuff from me, the balancing I leave to everyone else who plays PvP, but that doesn't mean I won't come with balance suggestions)?
Keep posting here I'm compiling them in a docx file so as to have underline, bold, colored fonts and so on.
I will check some of the balance things you write with the new H3 Assist software (thanks to the HotA team). I suggest you do the same. Most databases on the Internet still have data of H3 Complete.
Thanks to that I noticed that your assessment on Archmages is wrong. They have less defense, hp and damage(actually Crusaders have 7-10 and Archmagi 7-9, so not much lower) BUT they have No Melee Penalty, No Obstacle Penalty AND Spell Cost Reduction (spells cost -2 mana). Definetly.
Will send you the file when I finish adding my suggestions too. On the meantime will regularly check this thread.
Please don't take the thing with Ricardo Milos seriously.
Edit: Can you send the file to Phoenix4ever too, when it's done?
Edit 2: I'll leave your war machine suggestions to you.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2020 04:02 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Creature Balance: (list in progress)
You guys are free to do whatever you're willing, but I would like to point out that Hota hasn't been changing the stats of creatures. Creatures have been made more expensive, they have learned new tricks, their dwellings may not cost as much, but in the end, they have not directly touched to the stats (exluding Cove) At most, they may have changed a bit the units abilities (like Firebirds having only 50% fire resistance and Archdevils having -2 luck)
Look no further than the 1.6 update, where they actually went as far as creating a whole new unit to guard the experimental shop, so that they wouldn't need to change the stats of the original creatures.
Town balance is much better in Hota than it was in Sod, but you're right - there's still room for improvement. However, since the "stat" area seems to be a bit taboo for them, I would rather think another ways of making some towns better/worse.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 04:25 PM |
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It's weird they decided to create a fifth golem instead of just giving Gold and Diamond Golems +1 speed or at least give them a native terrain.
Yeah I guess they don't want to change stats of creatures, even neutrals, but Wyverns Monarchs could really use 10 more hp, they are more fragile than gorgons and come in lower numbers.
At least the downgraded hydra could also use +1 speed, otherwise it's just never a threat to anyone, especially when fought on the map, guarding relics etc.
Titans and Arch Devils became better in HotA and Firebirds became worse, so it's not like they haven't changed creatures, but perhaps in a less apparent way.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 04:28 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
It's weird they decided to create a fifth golem instead of just giving Gold and Diamond Golems +1 speed or at least give them a native terrain.
Yeah I guess they don't want to change stats of creatures, even neutrals, but Wyverns Monarchs could really use 10 more hp, they are more fragile than gorgons and come in lower numbers.
At least the downgraded hydra could also use +1 speed, otherwise it's just never a threat to anyone, especially when fought on the map, guarding relics etc.
Titans and Arch Devils became better in HotA and Firebirds became worse, so it's not like they haven't changed creatures, but perhaps in a less apparent way.
How they became better (the Titans)? I don't see any improvement. However, as better as they were made in HotA, 5000 Gold is simply too much.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 04:33 PM |
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Titans can now enter melee when THEY want and have you taken a look at their speed and damage?!
They are also mind immune, but can be resurrected.
I think 5000 gold and 2 gems is perfectly fine for Titans.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 04:38 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Titans can now enter melee when THEY want and have you taken a look at their speed and damage?!
It's also mind immune, but can be resurrected. I think 5000 and 2 gems is perfectly fine for Titans.
They are still as useful as Black Dragons. 4500 at most, I say. And entering melee when you want is not that big of a thing. Speed is lower than many level 7s, and damage... well, let's not forget they aren't always gonna get troops in range and Blackies and Goldies usually strike 2 units and have higher stats, except for damage. And many times your Tower army is gonna suffer much more than how worthy the Titan is and be smaller exactly because of their cost. It's enough for someone to implode the Titans and you're done. It's not that bad for Archangels though, since the Castle army is overall more solid and bigger than Tower (bigger because you won't buy all troops and struggle to get MG and Archmagi). Dragons have Mind Immunity too, and many other troops can also be resurrected.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 04:44 PM |
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"Blackies" and "Goldies" can't be resurrected. Goldies can be imploded though, which is apparently totally fair?!
They also have the potential to harm their own army with breath weapon.
Titans going to melee don't have to worry about doing half damage and 300 HP is kinda extreme for a ranged unit.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 04:49 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
"Blackies" and "Goldies" can't be resurrected. Goldies can be imploded though, which is apparently totally fair?!
They also have the potential to harm their own army with breath weapon.
Titans going to melee don't have to worry about doing half damage and 300 HP is kinda extreme for a ranged unit.
You're saying Titans are better than Black Dragons (I think they're equal)? Dragons can harm their own troops, that's true, but it happens rarely. I agree with imploding Goldies, that's not fair. But, let's not forget, Blackies have same HP, 1 more att and def, cost 1000 Gold less, fly, strike 2 units, but cant be imploded or resurrected. Titans, on the other hand, shoot with no melee penalty, have a little higher damage, can be impl. and res., but cost 1000 more gold. Not to forget, Tower can't rely on Master Genies, Arch Magi or even Naga Queens. Naga Queens are the next target and have low defense too, MG die like they're wind, ArchMagi are level 4 and Golems might not even be bought and K.O.-ed when assaulted. Tower army is also way smaller because of having 2000 less gold than everyone else and also costing more than everyone else. Dungeon can rely on the rest of the army, though, like Minos, Medusas, Evil Eyes and even Scorpicores to paralyze troops, which you will have the occasion to buy, unlike Tower.
Edit: This is also the main reason Tower is so weak and unused in PvP.
Edit 2: I was also taking economy in account, not only the unit itself, since the army too has to be balanced, not just a troop.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 04:57 PM |
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I would prefer Titans to Black Dragons, that's for sure. Also what about Archery, Golden Bow...
Tower is not weak, it's in fact very powerful because of Mage Guild 5, Library and Artifact Merchant and Grail (and Spell Research in HotA) but they are VERY expensive, both in gold and rare resources and they need time to develop.
If Crag Hack comes knocking on the front door early, Tower is probably not prepared for that, but a fully build Tower, where you can afford everything is very powerful.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted April 02, 2020 04:57 PM |
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I compiled a document of about 12 pages updated with your latest sugestions give it a look guys. I changed some things in contrast to my previous suggestions and illustrated with pictures the new Factions I proposed.
There you will see also an alternative suggestion for the Blood Engine (that's how I called the "Necropolis Coffin").
Download here.
Feel free to upload revised versions.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 04:57 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
I would prefer Titans to Black Dragons, that's for sure. Also what about Archery, Golden Bow...
Tower is not weak, it's in fact very powerful because of Mage Guild 5, Library and Artifact Merchant and Grail (and Spell Research in HotA) but they are VERY expensive, both in gold and rare resources and they need time to develop.
If Crag Hack comes knocking on the front door early, Tower is probably not prepared for that, but a fully build Tower, where you can afford everything is very powerful.
But we can't afford everything. That's the key and the problem. Tower will have smaller armies because of that.
Lord_Immortal said:
I compiled a document of about 12 pages updated with your latest sugestions give it a look guys. I changed some things in contrast to my previous suggestions and illustrated with pictures the new Factions I proposed.
There you will see also an alternative suggestion for the Blood Engine (that's how I called the "Necropolis Coffin").
Download here.
Feel free to upload revised versions.
Gonna take a look, thanks!
Edit: Very nice, only the document needs to be "corrected" in terms of font, etc. But I'm sure this is just a beta version of it.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted April 02, 2020 05:01 PM |
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Sure. I'm also welcoming ideas on the possible alternative creatures especially for Castle and Conflux I remained with none that I could think of. I suggested Tritons as Lv2 alternative instead of Fangarm Lv5.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 05:04 PM |
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Lord_Immortal said:
Sure. I'm also welcoming ideas on the possible alternative creatures especially for Castle and Conflux I remained with none that I could think of. I suggested Tritons as Lv2 alternative instead of Fangarm Lv5.
I'm saying the last bits about alternative creatures will be highly debated, as to find the best fit troop to add. Towns too. That's a lot of work. Also, I doubt they will listen to any Factory suggestion, since the concept is done and only needs to be perfected and added to the game.
Edit: The two new magic schools too will not be taken too much into account by the devs (only the spells), since it will totally change the game. Let's not forget, they want to "perfect" the game, not change it. That's why I'm reluctant when posting ideas for HotA.
Idea for Castle: Wolves from H7  (I'm joking, we should suggest something better from MM, since HotA likes stuff from MM into HoMM)
Edit 2: Conflux... Maybe we can take something from MM8 (or what MM was about Conflux and end of the world). There were some rocky dudes there. Maybe those Crystal Guards could be, instead of Magic Elementals?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 05:08 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
But we can't afford everything. That's the key and the problem. Tower will have smaller armies because of that.
Sure we can. HotA even made Estates twice as powerful as before and then there is stuff like Rampart's Treasury.
You should always aim to get Estates on as many secondary heroes as possible or heroes specialising in gold and resources.
HotA even made some Tower buildings cheaper. (Not neccessary imo.)
Conflux creatures are just as expensive as Tower in HotA and I don't hear anyone complain about Conflux's economy.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 05:13 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
FirePaladin said:
But we can't afford everything. That's the key and the problem. Tower will have smaller armies because of that.
Sure we can. HotA even made Estates twice as powerful as before and then there is stuff like Rampart's Treasury.
You should always aim to get Estates on as many secondary heroes as possible or heroes specialising in gold and resources.
HotA even made some Tower buildings cheaper. (Not neccessary imo.)
Conflux creatures are just as expensive as Tower in HotA and I don't hear anyone complain about Conflux's economy.
Well, yeah, but everyone can do that too (and will take Estates on secondary). But with the weak early army Tower has, how are you gonna get exp Estates fast?
Wasn't Conflux banned in PvP? And does everyone buy Magma Elementals? Only Rampart has Treasury, that's the problem. Tower's solutions are same solutions as for everybody, and aren't guaranteed either. You will have to struggle to buy troops, while everyone else not so much.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted April 02, 2020 05:15 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
But we can't afford everything. That's the key and the problem. Tower will have smaller armies because of that.
That's why I suggested an Alchemy skill for Tower.
phoenix4ever said:
I don't hear anyone complain about Conflux's economy.
Actually, I do. I stopped playing Conflux which used to be a favorite before. Maybe we can make Alchemy a bit more common for Elementalists and Planeswalkers?
EDIT
FirePaladin said:
Lord_Immortal said:
Sure. I'm also welcoming ideas on the possible alternative creatures especially for Castle and Conflux I remained with none that I could think of. I suggested Tritons as Lv2 alternative instead of Fangarm Lv5.
I'm saying the last bits about alternative creatures will be highly debated, as to find the best fit troop to add. Towns too. That's a lot of work. Also, I doubt they will listen to any Factory suggestion, since the concept is done and only needs to be perfected and added to the game.
Edit: The two new magic schools too will not be taken too much into account by the devs (only the spells), since it will totally change the game. Let's not forget, they want to "perfect" the game, not change it. That's why I'm reluctant when posting ideas for HotA.
Idea for Castle: Wolves from H7 (I'm joking, we should suggest something better from MM, since HotA likes stuff from MM into HoMM)
Edit 2: Conflux... Maybe we can take something from MM8 (or what MM was about Conflux and end of the world). There were some rocky dudes there. Maybe those Crystal Guards could be, instead of Magic Elementals?
I was thinking about that. OR we can completely remove Vori from the suggestions and divide its units among the other factions:
Valkyries Lv7 Conflux,
Ulfsarks/Werewolves Lv 3 or 4 Stronghold (require Halls of Valhalla),
Castle can get H2 style Paladins like the VCMI mod.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 05:16 PM |
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Lord_Immortal said:
FirePaladin said:
But we can't afford everything. That's the key and the problem. Tower will have smaller armies because of that.
That's why I suggested an Alchemy skill for Tower.
phoenix4ever said:
I don't hear anyone complain about Conflux's economy.
Actually, I do. I stopped playing Conflux which used to be a favorite before. Maybe we can make Alchemy a bit more common for Elementalists and Planeswalkers?
Sorry, didn't read it all yet. I thought Alchemy gave only resources like ore and wood.
Edit: Yes, maybe, since they're supposed to have knowledge of many things.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 05:17 PM |
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If you get lucky, you can find a Witch Hut, University or OP Seafaring Academy close to a town and take all secondary heroes there. You will get more money than you ever know what to do with soon.
If anything it's cheap towns like Stronghold and Fortress that are at a disadvantage, because they "don't have enough", to spend resources on.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 02, 2020 05:20 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
If you get lucky, you can find a Witch Hut, University or OP Seafaring Academy close to a town and take all secondary heroes there. You will get more money than you ever know what to do with soon.
If anything it's cheap towns like Stronghold are Fortress that are at a disadvantage, because they "don't have enough", to spend resources on.
Anyway, HotA will decide what they will do. We aren't reaching an end. At least they have gold for any situation, Stronghold and Fortress.
Edit: I'm gonna continue reading the doc.
Edit 2: Pain Reflection reminds me of Pain Mirror from King's Bounty (2008-2015). It was useless like sh*t there. But in HoMM it could be different.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted April 02, 2020 05:23 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
phoenix4ever said:
If you get lucky, you can find a Witch Hut, University or OP Seafaring Academy close to a town and take all secondary heroes there. You will get more money than you ever know what to do with soon.
If anything it's cheap towns like Stronghold are Fortress that are at a disadvantage, because they "don't have enough", to spend resources on.
Anyway, HotA will decide what they will do. We aren't reaching an end. At least they have gold for any situation, Stronghold and Fortress.
Edit: I'm gonna continue reading the doc.
Getting some unexpected OP bonus is part of the fun in some maps. We don't want to make all the games always balanced otherwise it gets boring.
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