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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 191 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 ... 157 158 159 160 161 ... 180 191 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 14, 2020 05:50 PM

..or I played. I can't remember also I don't like.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Syth
Syth


Hired Hero
posted December 16, 2020 08:03 AM


If I had to choose only one thing to change it would be TP.

Town portal is op with the choice at expert level. There is a huge gap between no skill and expert. Instead make it so that the skill level changes the movement points it consumes rather than the effect.

Probably an easy fix would be:

Without Earth magic: Consumes your whole daily movement but you are able to choose which castle you can go to

Basic: Consumes %75 of your daily  movement+ Choice

Advanced:%50 of your daily movement+ Choice

Expert: %25 of your daily movement+ choice

This way you would still use it without the earth magic if needed.

Another idea is to split it into two spells. the Classic "Town portal" only works for castles in the subterrenian.So you cannot jump from a subterrenian castle to a upper floor castle. This would also increase the subterrenian entrances strategically.

The other one is the lyloyds beacon in water magic. The spell allows you travel between upper level castles. Obviously the water counterpart would be more powerful so it should be 5th level.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 16, 2020 08:19 AM

The first idea is pretty good.
I also dislike the huge difference from no Earth Magic to Expert Earth Magic.
It basically forces you to always pick Earth Magic, if you want anything out of TP, Slow and Resurrection.

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shev441
shev441


Adventuring Hero
posted December 19, 2020 09:52 PM
Edited by shev441 at 22:08, 19 Dec 2020.

Idea to boost Sorcery skill :
As we all know, Sorcery is not the greatest skill in the game. In fact its among ones that are considered to be the worst in whole game. I really enjoy balance of skills in HOTA and in my opinion this secondary skill should get some improvement in nearest updates.

What makes it bad ?
Skill in general is designed in bad way. Not only % are to low, where even hero with a lot of Spell Power is not gaining much from it. In early stage of the game skill is almost useless. When you have 1st lvl hero and you own 2-3 spell power it makes your magic arrow stronger by about 5 dmg. In late game it's a bit better, but still most secondary skills are way more useful. It doesn't give anything to not dmg related spells.
Only situation when this skill makes sense is when you have hero who is specialist in it (very big bonus - +5% every level). It's another problem with it - Sorcery is very weak when you get it for hero who don't have it as speciality.

How to make it better?

Increase dmg of spells from 5%/10%/15% to 5%/15%/25%.
Add additional spell power points to hero +1/+2/+3.

Specialty: Sorcery (reduce from 5 % to 4%)
Receives a 4% per level bonus to Sorcery skill percentage.

Details:
Additional +1/+2/+3 spell power allows you to have nice start of the game. Spells that are dealing dmg are more effective from day 1 - reduces a problem where the percentage of small spell power  gives almost nothing. Also it adds small benefit to spells like slow/haste/bless etc. - ones that works for certain amount of rounds. Sorcery should make your hero a better mage - and it also should increase his/hers ability to cast other spells better (for longer time). Also I would increase the % of increasing a spells dmg. 5/10/15 is to weak in my opinion. 5/15/25 should make it better. To balance it, speciality should be reduced to 4% per level. That way this skill would be okey for all heroes. Still heroes who specialise in it have reason to exist.

Summary:
 +1/+2/+3 extra spell power points is nothing to crazy to make it overpower, but would make it reasonable in early/mid part of the game. In middle/late part increased % of dmg of spells comes in (heroes have enough SP to make % bonus do smth). To avoid it being to OP for heroes like Sandro/Spint - their speciality is slightly reduced. Sorcery is now good skill that works for every hero in all stages of the game.

Possible problem - Same as with Thant that got way better after Mysticism rework, Solmyr would be better - his chain lightning would be more powerfull. Still Tower is not strongest faction in game and is not known for having best heroes, so it should be fine.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 19, 2020 11:54 PM

Again Thant is OP in HotA, it's easy to fix though. Just make Animate Dead permanent from advanced level, just like Resurrection.

I like your idea of Sorcery also giving a bit of Power, so it also affects other spells.
And 20 or 25 seems fine at expert level.

All skill specialists should gain 3% per level imo.

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sukteP
sukteP

Tavern Dweller
posted December 27, 2020 07:19 PM

Really enjoying the mod! However, I believe there may be some gameplay features, that would make life easier.

So far been playing a lot of G size maps and campaigns. Scenarios with lots of exploration, huge incomes and plenty of towns.
However, after conquering each new town, need to check each town every turn each day to build a new structure. With empty town conquered, I wish to populate it with dwellings and castle asap! And to do so, need to manually check into town each day. I wish there was a build queue feature, where I could set, which buildings in order need to be built each day...
With such feature, after conquering empty town, I would just set a build queue and expect it to have dwellings fully upgraded in couple of weeks. This would save a lot of time browsing through town list and building a building manually in each of them.
I believe, that with queue system, building resources would need to be put away for the queue to fulfill. This feature is more complex than stat changes, but would really benefit scenarios, which last for a very long time.

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pandamlin
pandamlin

Tavern Dweller
posted December 27, 2020 09:08 PM
Edited by pandamlin at 03:52, 28 Dec 2020.

The whole Hota team, thank you for your continuous and diligent work keeping HOMM3 alive and thriving! Can't wait for factory update to drop. These are my suggestions:

Earth magic is the most important school, especially for tournaments (generally speaking). It got so many useful spells: slow, shield, stone skin, view earth, animate dead, anti magic, force field, meteor shower, resurrection, town portal, implosion and summon earth. Earth Tome >> Air Tome >>>> Fire/Water Tome. So maybe buff other schools of spells or maybe move spells around?

For example,
Fire school = destruction/curse, so switch Meteor Shower with land mine (Meteor Shower literally drops down from the sky like fireballs and Land Mine fits earth and could get buffed to be more useful), and buff other fire damage spells. Buff expert Bloodlust to +8 attack. Buff expert Curse to min & max dmg - 3. Buff expert Misfortune to -3 luck. Move Weakness from Water to Fire and buff expert to -8 attack. Also, maybe tune down Luna to be less op in early game, or maybe tweak firewall so when making a second fire wall when there is already one on the battle field, the second fire wall deals half damage?

Water = heal/personal support, so switch Fortune from Air with Remove Obstacle from water (remove obstacle fits Air better) and buff expert Fortune to +3 luck. Move Magic Mirror to water and buff expert to apply to all ally troops (mirror fits water better). Buff expert Mirth to +3 morale. Change Cure to heal target every turn for certain HP, and Expert Cure to be an area effect (maybe same area as Meteor Shower?), which means Cure specialty heroes get buffed too.

Air = movement/atmospheric support, so move Force Field from Earth to Air level 4 and buff its expert to be 3 turns (Force is an invisible thing and Force Field is atmospheric support). Buff expert Disrupting Ray to apply to all enemy troops. Buff Counterstrike to increase retaliation damage by +1/+2/+3. Move Shield from Earth to Air and merge Airshield into Shield (it fits Air better).

Earth = ground and muddy stuff, buff expert Sorrow to -3 morale. buff expert Stone Skin to +8 defense.

Also, balance the number of creatures the 4 different Summon Elementals since generally summon Earth is strongest. Giselle with Interference is also OP, as she can completely negate enemy magic heroes when herself could develop strong magic prowess, on top of the fact that might heroes don't have a hard and direct counter. Maybe limit the numbers from sources of Interference so that the max can reach is 75% Interference? Or maybe buff Sorcery as a direct counter of Interference.

After these changes Earth school will still be the most useful overall, but at least it makes other schools more useful in early-middle game and situationally. Implosion is a level 5 spell so not that easy to get and only later in game or lucky to find Tome, but by taking the much more accessible Meteor Shower (Aislinn/Deemer/magic tower) out of Earth, the school then only has Magic Arrow until getting Implosion, so greatly reducing its damage capability. Resurrection mostly only matters at Advanced Earth, otherwise the resurrected troops will disappear after battle. (although Animate Dead is more OP in that sense since it doesn't require Advanced Earth to let resurrected undead troops stay in army)

A buff is desperately needed for First Aid skill to heal more and also the HP of First Aid tent and ammo cart. Expert First Aid should let the tent heal all ally troops. Ballistics heroes should come with ammo cart.

The effect of morale and luck can be emphasized more to add variety to plays/strategies (possibly extend the range to +6/-6 and increase the chance percentages of each level), e.g. if one's biome gives no Earth spells and only low level artifacts, one can instead focus on morale and luck strategy with buffed Fire/Water magic to effectively counter enemy with better biome giving Earth and higher level artifacts. And the currently trashy Fortune heroes could get added similar effect of Minotaur = ally troops always at least +1 luck.

Effect of the secondary skill Eagle Eye could be changed to having a chance to copy AND cast the spell enemy just used. When Eagle Eye triggers, heroes with Eagle Eye can choose whether to cast the spell, and at effect level based on the level of the spell's respective magic school that Eagle Eye heroes have and cost the fitting amount of mana as if it were a normal cast ny that hero. The copied spell also won't be added to Eagle Eye hero's spellbook after the battle. Basic = 10% chance/1~2 level spells, Advanced = 20% chance/1~4 level spells, Expert = 30% chance/can copy all spells. Eagle Eye specialty hero gets +3% every level (so Expert at level 99, chance = 30%*(1+3%*99)= 89%). When Eagle Eye is triggered, the hero will get a prompt asking whether choose to cast the copied spell, the chance is gone if declined or having insufficient mana even if yes is chosen.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 27, 2020 09:25 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:30, 27 Dec 2020.

How to fix magics:

General:

- Town portal becomes "all schools" like magic missile.
- Dimension door MAYBE also. Debatable.

Water:

- Add a level 5 "Blizzard" spell that does AOE in a 3x3 (or whatever inferno radius is) hex with a good damage rate (maybe meteor shower scaling).
- Greatly improve the amount of Water elementals summoned by the spell.
- Transfer "Slow" to Water Magic.

Air:

- Make magic mirror a mass spell on Expert and play with percentage until it's balanced properly.
- Transfer Force field to Air.
- Improve the amount of Air elementals summoned by the spell.

Fire:

- Dramatically improve Sacrifice.
- Improve the amount of Fire elementals summoned by the spell.
- Make Inferno and Fireball suck less.
- General buffs or reworks to useless spells like Fireshield.

Thank me later.




____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

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pandamlin
pandamlin

Tavern Dweller
posted December 27, 2020 09:31 PM
Edited by pandamlin at 20:53, 28 Dec 2020.

shev441 said:
Idea to boost Sorcery skill :
As we all know, Sorcery is not the greatest skill in the game. In fact its among ones that are considered to be the worst in whole game. I really enjoy balance of skills in HOTA and in my opinion this secondary skill should get some improvement in nearest updates.


Agree with your suggestions. Also/or, make Sorcery counter Interference? Magic heroes already are inferior to might heroes (might heroes can have better attack & defense and excellence of magic at the same time; it is also easier for some might hero classes to get Earth Magic than magic heroes, which logically is quite strange). The introduction of the 3 Interference artifacts and new hero Giselle makes Interference OP in that it could completely negate enemy heroes relying on magic, meanwhile there is no hard counter to might heroes.

Also, maybe nerf some spell effects, e.g. the number of hexes affected by haste/slow and the distance of DD, and relate Sorcery to that?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 28, 2020 09:55 AM

pandamlin said:
Magic heroes already are inferior to might heroes


Actually Interference and Intelligence nerf were a direct counter to superior magical heroes. The most played template is Jeebus Cross and Magic beats Might there.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted December 28, 2020 01:39 PM

Doomforge said:
How to fix magics:

General:

- Town portal becomes "all schools" like magic missile.
- Dimension door MAYBE also. Debatable.




Certainly better than what we currently have, but I'm not sure when can find balance with these spells EVER.
Something a la Heroes IV - either potions os scrolls (which could be sold at the mage guild or, with we are feeling ambitious at a new building, alchemists' guild)

Doomforge said:
How to fix magics:

Water:

- Add a level 5 "Blizzard" spell that does AOE in a 3x3 (or whatever inferno radius is) hex with a good damage rate (maybe meteor shower scaling).
- Greatly improve the amount of Water elementals summoned by the spell.
- Transfer "Slow" to Water Magic.




Good.

Doomforge said:
How to fix magics:

Air:

- Make magic mirror a mass spell on Expert and play with percentage until it's balanced properly.
- Transfer Force field to Air.
- Improve the amount of Air elementals summoned by the spell.




Good.

Doomforge said:
How to fix magics:

Fire:

- Dramatically improve Sacrifice.
- Improve the amount of Fire elementals summoned by the spell.
- Make Inferno and Fireball suck less.
- General buffs or reworks to useless spells like Fireshield.




Good.

I like your suggestions, but I'd like to offer some of my own:

-Correct Wizards primary attribute scaling after level 10, which is atrocious - 30/20/20/30, when it should be 20/20/30/30. I've repeatedly tried to explain why this is wrong, but, this time, I will just say that it is so wrong that if you think that it is right, you should also feel nothing wrong were barbarians, after level 10, to scale like this : 20/30/30/20;
- Rework many Wizard heroes: of all magic classes, how come wizards do not get a single intelligence specialist? Also, what are those spell specs (with the notable exception of Chain Lightning)?
- Make high knowledge matter - by increasing spell costs across the board, by removing spell cost reduction of magic schools and making mana regeneration equal to knowledge (a la Heroes V);
- Limit the usefullness of magic wells - visitable once a week?
- Separate single spells from their mass counterparts (a la Heroes II);
- Expert in any magic school should allow the hero to summon the upgraded elemental from that school ;
- Scrap the Wisdom skill entirely, making heroes who want to learn spells higher than level 3 to be required to learn the respective Magic School (a la Heroes V);
- Reduce the cost of mage guilds (a la Heroes V)
- Move Mana Vortex to where it belongs - to the Highlands of Bracada, where the true masters of magic live  (a la Heroes VII
- Fix or remove the many worthless spells (such as remove obstable, which would be much more useful were to it explode the obstacle, damaging nearby stacks);
- Remove or combine worthless secondary magic skills, such as scholar, eagle eye, mysticism.



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pandamlin
pandamlin

Tavern Dweller
posted December 28, 2020 08:48 PM
Edited by pandamlin at 21:35, 28 Dec 2020.

Doomforge said:
pandamlin said:
Magic heroes already are inferior to might heroes


Actually Interference and Intelligence nerf were a direct counter to superior magical heroes. The most played template is Jeebus Cross and Magic beats Might there.


Ive been watching MS Studios Jebus tournaments and it seems like although magic heroes get a fair share of uses, players would still prefer might heroes like the Defense, Attack and Logistics specialists, unless it were Luna with good biome, e.g. zone guard and desert enemies not being efreets, phoenix that are immune to fire or simply high power flying units like AA, and to a much lesser extent Resurrection/Meteor Shower guys. The thing is that, Might heroes can develop equally strong magic prowess with artifacts, tomes, magic well and mana vortex, besides getting Interference, while Magic heroes will always have inferior Attack and Defense. Some Might Heroes even have higher chance of getting Earth Magic than Magic heroes.

When the match gets to the point of desert fights, Might Heroes having 20 SP and 16 Knowledge wont be so much worse than Magic Heroes having 26SP and 22 Knowledge, but Might Heroes having 26 Attack and 22 Defense will be significant over Magic Heroes having 19 Attack and 16 Defense (Magic Heroes are born with 1 less stat point) because the Attack and Defense difference is applied to all troops and everytime they attack/defend/shoot, and even more so because of power stack building by creature banks. On the other hand, spells can only be cast once each turn, not 7 times.

The superiority of Magic Heroes depends on RNG so much that it is unreliable, e.g. whether get good monsters and good spells and good tomes and good pandora and good Magic School secondaries that the enemy doesnt get, and even Magic Heroes with good magic prowess cant forgo building army, yet Might heroes can always rely on low level spells like slow/haste/bless/blind and the guaranteed good Attack/Defense stats while building army. More magic prowess to Might heroes is a plus but not neccesity. They also spend less mana in battles because the army is stronger (also Ballistas/Canons do good damage and act as meat shield better under Might heroes too) and can use the saved mana to cast map spells like DD/Fly/TP/View. Then, with a well built Giselle, Magic Heroes can get their SP lowered to below 5, meanwhile Giselle herself could be at 20+ SP, easily becoming superior in both might and magic. Magic Heroes dont have a "Might Interference" that lowers enemy Attack and Defense, but have to rely on RNG for good artifacts.

Then above all that, there are more useful Might Heroes with good starting secondary skills than Magic Heroes, and Might Heroes have lower chance to get trash skills like Eagle Eye/Learning/First Aid/Scholar/Mysticism/Sorcer.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 28, 2020 08:54 PM

Why not just play with Resistance instead of Interference?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted December 28, 2020 08:59 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 20:59, 28 Dec 2020.

^ that. You can always enable it again. Although I expect he also wants such a change to be global rather than local.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 28, 2020 09:13 PM

No no, people can do whatever they want, but I personally play with Resistance, never Interference.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted December 28, 2020 09:18 PM

I didn't mean that you'd want that lol, I only meant that the original poster might have.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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pandamlin
pandamlin

Tavern Dweller
posted December 28, 2020 09:19 PM
Edited by pandamlin at 22:35, 28 Dec 2020.

Phoenix4ever said:
Why not just play with Resistance instead of Interference?


In private play maybe, but tournaments use Interference.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted December 28, 2020 10:03 PM

pandamlin said:


The introduction of the 3 Interference artifacts and new hero Giselle makes Interference OP in that it could completely negate enemy heroes relying on magic, meanwhile there is no hard counter to might heroes.



There's a counter for Interference and even a high level Giselle: Ring of the Magi, and pretty much the conjuring artifacts in general. (with the conjuring cape your spell will already provide your spells with a needed duration levels.) Interference also does nothing before the final fight, so there's also that.

Also, I would say magic in general is already a counter to might when you think about it. But you're right about the state of magic heroes,  the might heroes are also very decent mages and shine in all other areas, so they're indeed better.

However, I think most of the problems with the magic heroes would be fixed if the skills they have would be more useful: Eagle Eye is useless, Sorcery isn't doing much, it's not adviced to have water or fire magic, even air is kinda bad first magic school...
I feel if these issues related to skills would be fixed, the balance between might and magic would be way better.

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pandamlin
pandamlin

Tavern Dweller
posted December 28, 2020 10:40 PM
Edited by pandamlin at 23:06, 28 Dec 2020.

Hourglass said:
pandamlin said:


The introduction of the 3 Interference artifacts and new hero Giselle makes Interference OP in that it could completely negate enemy heroes relying on magic, meanwhile there is no hard counter to might heroes.



There's a counter for Interference and even a high level Giselle: Ring of the Magi, and pretty much the conjuring artifacts in general. (with the conjuring cape your spell will already provide your spells with a needed duration levels.) Interference also does nothing before the final fight, so there's also that.

Also, I would say magic in general is already a counter to might when you think about it. But you're right about the state of magic heroes,  the might heroes are also very decent mages and shine in all other areas, so they're indeed better.

However, I think most of the problems with the magic heroes would be fixed if the skills they have would be more useful: Eagle Eye is useless, Sorcery isn't doing much, it's not adviced to have water or fire magic, even air is kinda bad first magic school...
I feel if these issues related to skills would be fixed, the balance between might and magic would be way better.


But the conjuring artifacts only matter to spell duration, not spell power, e.g. the amount of damage spells do and the amount of summoned creatures. Also, the conjuring artifacts take up valuable artifact spots. And, it is not only Interference being the hard counter of magic, but also anti-magic artifacts/red orb (but these are banned in Hota?) and cursed ground.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 30, 2020 12:19 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 12:51, 30 Dec 2020.

Since Expert Intelligence is now only +50%, so should Mana Vortex and perhaps Magic Springs and Altar of Mana too.

An option to allow which hero and when you want to use Mana Vortex, would also be great.
And again allow AI to build Mana Vortex and the other buildings it can't build.

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