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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 165 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 150 ... 161 162 163 164 165 · «PREV / NEXT»
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 23, 2021 05:44 PM

Biased. I don't even really need to say why and how. Still, the best solution does not exist yet anyway.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 24, 2021 07:50 PM

FirePaladin said:
Biased. I don't even really need to say why and how. Still, the best solution does not exist yet anyway.
Yep. The difference between HotA and VCMI/ERA is that the HotA team has enough pride in their work to make what is effectively an unofficial expansion, while the others are collected bunches of disparate scripts, and stolen artwork.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 24, 2021 08:20 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 20:23, 24 Jan 2021.

Well, VCMI in itself is a platform. For example, MDT made HoMM3 mods of very high quality. There also are independent mod makers who make assets of quality just as high as HotA's, but none of them even get recognition or are known since HotA overshadows them (90%+ of players being casuals who just see HotA is popular, etc. and play it, without even going further into the community; also no, I am not implying any of you is part of that group, after all you ventured on this forum to begin with lol).

Oh, and none of those mods are playable on the original HoMM3 for now either, nor on HotA. That's another reason they aren't known of.
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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted January 24, 2021 08:30 PM
Edited by revolut1oN at 20:30, 24 Jan 2021.

I'd say its not about popularity and big number of players facilitating even more coming.

VCMI simply has a whole set of lacking features, unstable multiplayer and dumb AI (at least when I last checked)

ERA/WoG are 100% singleplayer experience as the magnitude of optional features of varying quality makes multiplayer impossible.

I would say these are the main factors contributing to HotA popularity, obviously excluding superior quality and polished gaming experience.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 24, 2021 08:32 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 20:32, 24 Jan 2021.

I did mention only the mods themselves and not VCMI as a platform, true. You brought good points regarding VCMI. Now let's say, if VCMI was near flawless, most possibly people would have been playing mods on it in tandem with the HotA mod.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted January 24, 2021 09:36 PM

FirePaladin said:
Now let's say, if VCMI was near flawless, most possibly people would have been playing mods on it in tandem with the HotA mod.


Not necessary, as at least in HC it kinda seems like people have their preferred setting/mod they tend play. And when it comes to the average player, they don't necessary look for highly editable, wog-like experiences, at least that's something what I have witnessed.

Also, I think it also took quite some time for even for Hota to "break through", as around 4 years ago, pure SoD was likely overwhelmingly the most used "setting." I tend to watch Hota streamers on basis, and there's still pretty much always someone asking what mod is this and how they can download it.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted January 24, 2021 09:40 PM
Edited by RerryR at 21:43, 24 Jan 2021.

MattII said:
... while the others are collected bunches of disparate scripts, and stolen artwork.


yeah yeah, the same attitude here as always. HotA is the best and all the rest is sh_it or stolen.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 24, 2021 10:16 PM

RerryR said:
MattII said:
... while the others are collected bunches of disparate scripts, and stolen artwork.


yeah yeah, the same attitude here as always. HotA is the best and all the rest is sh_it or stolen.
1) This is a HotA thread, so you (and the others) have exactly zero reason to be here sh_it-talking it.
2) I said disparate not sh_it. As for stolen, Ghost outright admitted it.
3) HotA has good multiplayer, VCMI/ERA, not so much.
4) Not everyone likes having a-thousand-and-one choices. Some prefer a more simple, streamlined game.
5) See point #1. Don't like HotA? Go somewhere else to complain, not here.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 24, 2021 10:28 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 11:58, 25 Jan 2021.

Not sure who s****alked HotA tbh, bro. Ghost's post are often hard to comprehend, but yeah, most assets are indeed stolen, at least those used in ERA mods and the crappy VCMI mods (there are some ERA mods with a visually higher quality, without stolen assets, but I've yet to encounter one as good as HotA or a few other VCMI mods in these regards). VCMI does not even exist anyway, but the top-notch content which was made to be SHOWCASED on it exists. ERA is uh.... singleplayer experience I guess, it doesn't have much to do with PvP. About the one streamlined choice, just have something like HotA + other stuff like Tides of War (which is on par with HotA in terms of quality) as a main mod and plenty of minor mods for who feels like playing with those. And for the last point, I suppose nobody wanted to have this discussion last this long, nor move it somewhere else.

I am just trying to be as objective as I can about it, btw.

Edit: Oh, Ghost and Macron s****alked. I thought they were ignorable as they were biased (over the top; or just hatred towards HotA since nobody made another stable, full mod/platform, etc.).
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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted January 25, 2021 07:49 AM

MattII said:
The difference between HotA and VCMI/ERA is that the HotA team has enough pride in their work...


I little bit more respect towards the rest of the Heroes Community please.

FirePaladin said:
... since nobody made another stable mod/platform

Is that really so?




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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted January 25, 2021 07:59 AM
Edited by Macron1 at 08:40, 25 Jan 2021.

Pride is a sin, you know...
The talk is about Hota crew being a totalitarian group which never listens to anyone, and that the ideas ans suggestions on it is a complete waste of time and electricity. And it's a doubtful mod itself, closed and not moddable.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 25, 2021 09:01 AM

Hey, does anyone know how to report users on this forum?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 25, 2021 03:12 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 15:41, 25 Jan 2021.

@RerryR

ERA is not a stable, full platform as of now. And by mod I simply mean another full mod of high quality (in all aspects; without stolen assets either) just like HotA, which can be played outside of the unfinished VCMI (otherwise I would have considered Tides of War one of those mods; and no, the ERA port is incomplete and rough).

@Macron1
HotA team members regularly visit these threads, do not worry. Dang, I even got in contact with them a bit, regarding suggestions (and more), but that was months ago. It's just that many of these suggestions are either not a priority at this exact moment (spells, etc.), or are just plain stupid, do not respect HotA's aim, or anything of sorts (like all those new skill suggestions from a few months ago and the such). Take into consideration that the guys have to deliver assets and content of the highest quality, and they also have their own lives to deal with.

@MattII
Do not bother, this is nothing compared to some threads on the off-topic boards lol.
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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted January 25, 2021 08:53 PM

FirePaladin said:
...For example, MDT made HoMM3 mods of very high quality. There also are independent mod makers who make assets of quality just as high as HotA's, but none of them even get recognition or are known since HotA overshadows them...


@MattII you can read this? This is part of the point I was trying to make. I don't critique HotA, I criticize your statement.
Up to this time, thousands of people have contributed to the heroes modding community, providing mods, assets, graphics and programming knowledge. Without these contributions, we all would probably not be here, I even claim that HotA would not exist as it does today. Heroes Community homepage would not exist anymore. The HotA thread is small compared to the sum of other projects.

Now you come and claim that only HotA has enough pride to make an unofficial expansion (whatever that should mean?) and all the other mods are only scripts and consist of only stolen assets.
So all the scenarios, TEW, TSW, WoG, MoP, HoL, TuM, ACM, KK, ERA, HD Mod, the other town projects, all stolen assets right? some disparate scripts, no full expansions, right?
So what you do with such statements is belittling the work of hundreds of people and discouraging them.
If you want the community to grow, you should actually do it the other way round.


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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 26, 2021 12:02 AM

Macron, if you have nothing useful to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting. These posts are off-topic and against the rules. Please read the form posting rules. Thank you.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 26, 2021 09:35 AM
Edited by blob2 at 09:41, 26 Jan 2021.

Imo like you guys mentioned all mods are a "part" of the community and it is simply a players choice what he wants to use. They are totally OPTIONAL. Any work that is done for free and shared with others deserves at least some sort of praise/respect (ofc as long as it doesn't break rules). I remember how much work it takes me to even make an "S" map in H3 editor, so mods are not a matter of small work I might criticize a mod but not because I want to shun their creators, but because I don't like an idea plus I have a specific, very narrow view of what I accept and how a mod imo should look like. I stated many times why I recognize HotA over other mods, and my main reason sums up to the idea that imo if there ever were more expansions to the original game this is how they would look like. And yeah the experience is really streamlined: you just grab an installer and you can play.

And yeah, HotA team does not listen, where is my Chimera

Joking aside I think HotA team purposely "ignores" many suggestions as they have their own vision plus there are so many suggestions that it would be hard to please everyone so they need to stick to what they have planned (even if it originally came from someone else's idea, but that is rather hard to point out). Plus seeing how sometimes some arguments appear in terms of what should and shouldn't be implemented, they probably choose to not take part in it.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 26, 2021 03:24 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:40, 26 Jan 2021.

@RerryR

Those are some good points, the only issue would be that none of the mods you mentioned could be called full expansion in the style and quality of HoMM3, no offense, few being worthy of that title (HotA and ofc ToW). And well, a single town project can't really be called expansion either, as it is just a single new town, and all those towns are currently unplayable in a dignified manner.

Oh, I pretty much agree with everything else in your post, btw.

Edit:

@revolut1oN

Yeah, that's true, quite some of those have stolen work to a certain extent....
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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted January 26, 2021 04:27 PM

RerryR said:
So all the scenarios, TEW, TSW, WoG, MoP, HoL, TuM, ACM, KK, ERA, HD Mod, the other town projects, all stolen assets right? some disparate scripts, no full expansions, right?
So what you do with such statements is belittling the work of hundreds of people and discouraging them.


Well, to be fair a bunch of those do indeed steal others' work - HoL for example just takes every creature he likes and does not even ask original authors for permission - just copy-pastes it into his mod.

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weilan
weilan


Adventuring Hero
posted January 30, 2021 03:34 PM

Bottom line is all mods like ERA or WoG are only fun for single player, because of all the bugged mechanics they introduce. I played WoG back in the day when I was bored out of my head with SoD (the latest one at the time... this was around 2006). WoG and ERA have so much borrowed assets that you start asking yourself "What game am I even playing anymore?"

There were assets that looked from like Age of Empires 2, Disciples 2, etc.

I've seen one interesting ERA mod called "Advanced Classes" or something, that on paper looks really interesting, but when I saw screenshots that looked like something out of King's Bounty games, I immediately signed it off.

I won't say HoTA is perfect either and the rate at which they produce content or how some things still need balancing is something that I don't like about it. Like how lots of skills are still useless.

I don't know why is there even an argument regarding ERA vs HoTA. ERA is kinda what happens when you give a toddler his first soda.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted January 30, 2021 04:17 PM


and disable all the rest

weilan said:
I've seen one interesting ERA mod called "Advanced Classes" or something, that on paper looks really interesting

Thanks for the shoutout my friend.

weilan said:
I don't know why is there even an argument regarding ERA vs HoTA.

There is no need for an argument, ERA and HotA both serve a different purpose.

weilan said:
ERA is kinda what happens when you give a toddler his first soda.

ERA is first and foremost a modding platform that allows players to customize their game and not a mod itself. And judging by the thousands of comments in this forum about suggestions to change this and that skill, hero, town, creature, Magic, artifact... I conclude that there is a high demand for such a tool ;-)

 

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