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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2021 04:08 PM |
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shev441 said:
Guild of Mercenerys
Actually really like this idea. IMO not only does it bring some slight balance between players, but you could also build your powerstack out of these objects.
If there would also be an option to not necessary link all of them together, but instead have only couple of them to be pairs if you want, we could build a fun template where both players would have one source of the same creature in their zone, and as there would be dozens of these kinds of pairs, players could build their armies from these objects alone, and then fight.
We already have Kebab Cross template, (full of mercenary camps), but it isn't necessary the most balanced experience.
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weilan
Known Hero
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posted May 19, 2021 11:12 AM |
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shev441 said:
Guild of Mercenerys
You made a typo - it should be Guild of Mercenaries. I like the idea, but the unit should be more specific and something that "looks" and "feels" like a mercenary. Probaby a humanoid unit. Rogues and Nomads look about right. Another would be an entirely new unit called Mercenary with stats somewhere between a Rogue and a Knight and also with an appearance somewhere in between.
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orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted May 19, 2021 01:29 PM |
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I already have shared my work here before but will do it again,this time with more solid suggestions:
 SPELLS
Necessity and usefulness gap between spells were so wide that i couldn't help myself searching a way to bring initial reform to the system. Did a good job on my own imo but some implementations were out of my reach so i will just explain why they are worth considering. And since problems are looking at us from both school and level aspect, i'll just elaborate them in a clumsy way:
Slow: As a cheap and a very necessary spell it shouldn't be obtained easily, especially when it is hostile and the counter of "haste". Look how some hostile counters are 1 level higher than the friendly ones -> sorrow=mirth+1; misfortune=fortune+1 etc. Well of course it is not true for all counters but transferring slow to 2nd level and changing the starting spells of certain heroes will surely open way for other scenarios and drag earth magic down from the high sky to bring it a bit closer to its original place - earth.
Cure: Definitely should do more on adv/expert level
Remove Obstacle: Should be able to remove any level of force field at expert water. That way it will be saved from being a meme spell.
Blind: Another OP spell which should be obtained less easily. Simply gotta make it a lvl-3 spell.
Land Mine: Now that Blind went up,this useless garbage should come down. I really have no idea how to make it much more useful than it is(other than giving the option to place mines manually which is too much work for a spell of this class)
Fireball_Frost Ring_Hypnotize: All need HP boost.
Fire Shield & Slayer Both moved to 3rd level and got considerable amount of boost
Anti-Magic_Fly_Sacrifice brought to 4th level. 1st, too good to be a 3rd lvl spell. 2nd, not that good to be there and 3rd, again not that good to be in spellbinder's hat.
Resurrection: From a philosophical point of view, rez is associated with both rain and soil which becomes alive from that rain. So it is a good excuse to transfer it to the school of water and hopefully end the dominion of earth. I'm aware barbarians and overlords won't like this but do you have a better idea?
Berserk & Town Portal: Both should be placed on the highest possible elevation, requiring more manas,naturally. That way neither a random shrine nor expert scholar will be able to provide it easily. Also, wouldn't hurt to boost that futile trash(Garbage Mirror), who knows maybe a 60% chance at expert level could turn the game upside down..
SKILLS
Diplomacy: It is not plausible for a human player to let go of another in exchange of some gold(amount which computer determines) even when they got diplomacy. There should appear a window for the dominant one to decide whether he likes the deal or not,only after he confirms, the surrenderer can leave with his remaining army. As to adventure map features, as the % of skill increases the gold amount monsters require should decrease while willingness of them goes up. That way diplo will be an important skill for competitive games.
Sorcery: Increases the magnitude of any spell with HP ( Cure,Rez, Land Mine etc.) by 5% ; 10% and 20%. Additionally, boosts ArchAngels' and Pit Lords' rez ability by corresponding %.
Eagle Eye: Spell teaching feature of it, as we all are aware, is not handy. So i propose to build it in a way that both monster and map object details will be visible from certain distance, the distance which increases with spell power.
Imagine, a side hero with advanced Eagle Eye and 4 spell power detecting the artifacts and monster amount of a neutral(like visions does) or a crypt or a utopia from 12 hexes away ( 2/3 out of 4 arts figured in this case). It would be very handy in terms of map coverage as shown below:
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted May 19, 2021 05:10 PM |
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Are you gonna create this modification of HotA through hex editing? BTB and phoenix4ever might be able to help you.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted May 19, 2021 06:23 PM |
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@orrinisthebest
Slow
While your reasoning is totally making sense, I wouldn't change slow anymore. It's kinda too iconic to be changed any further. I believe more bad than good would come out of the change.
Cure
I think Cure could receive I minor change, just like you described. Overall I think the spell is usable and in a good spot even now.
Remove Obstacle
I have good news and bad news: It is laready completely possible to remove force field by using this spell. Unfortunately, the spell still doesn't see any spell, and I think is basically doomed to be in that state.
Blind
I'm not sure if you know, but Blind isn't really used in MP scene. The spell is already pretty hard to obtain, as you can only find it from few mage guilds. And there's a lot, I mean a lot of counterplay you can do. Probably the best way of dealing with Blind is to cast Anti-magic to the blinded stack, as it will cure the blindness. That also is quite a tempo move, as you're not only countering their move, but also making your threat stack immune for future spellcasting. There really isn't a reason to nerf Blind I think.
Fireball_Frost Ring_Hypnotize "All need HP boost".
Absolutely agree!
Fire Shield & Slayer
Initially it sounds like a good plan. Making them mass spells could be a fine start as well. I wouldn't expect them to be played that much even with these changes, thou.
Diplomacy
Diplo is already part of competitive games, just not part of everyone of them. IMO its' just good that the skill isn't always worth taking.
Sorcery
Simply buff the expert rate to 30%, and I believe there's nobody to complain.
Eagle Eye
Kinda like the skill, but then again, we're very far from the initial plan of the skill. No reason to add that kind of effect to Eagle eye, simply ban it and introduce something else, maybe something like you described.
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orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted May 19, 2021 06:32 PM |
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No, Paladin, i just want HotA team to take these suggestions into serious consideration. Not because i know the best but because most of us would agree that it is time to give space to the forgotten part of the game -elements that were either poorly worked or ignored. I mean, it was already exciting to be able to know what utopia concealed when i made this image. Now imagine how cool it would be if real.
As to modding, i applied most of these on my own with the help of MMArchive but after some time i had to go back to defaults. First, because online; second, AI needs a lot of work to be a real challenge to human.
@Hourglass they already played with slow so don't say they wouldn't or couldn't do it later. As to blind, i believe it shouldn't be received by all on building second level MG,especially by those who have no wisdom. And by OP i meant in neutral fights.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 19, 2021 06:47 PM |
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About Fire Shield being mass, I have considered this before myself, but I'm not sure...
Don't you think it would be incredibly annoying to fight against an army full of Fire Shields? I mean Efreet Sultans are already annoying, now imagine it on all stacks and war machines and with 50% more damage!
And how would you actually counter it? You could of course cast Mass Dispel or Mass Protection From Fire, but Water and Fire Magic are usually not the first choice for magic schools. (Anti-Magic won't help VS Fire Shield.)
I think a Fireball radius would be great for Fire Shield, as to not make it too annoying.
Slayer and Magic Mirror are already mass in my mod, they are expensive and hard to learn spells, so I think that's fair.
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Grell
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 19, 2021 06:55 PM |
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@orrinisthebest
Slow: I think would be cool have a artifact that could make units immune to slow. A boot or something.
Cure: Agree, Expert should heal 100 %
Remove Obstacle: Agree.
Blind: I always thik this spell works in an unfair way. Would keep as lvl-2 spell but blinding only creatures from 1-3 level in basic, 3-4 level in advanced and 6-7 level in expert. Right now you have one of the best fire spell and you don't even need fire magic to use. This way would nerf the spell and boost fire magic as well.
Anti-Magic_Fly Fly should keep as level 5 spell, it's too good for a level 4. Water Walk it's a level 4 and fly ignores Movement cost from diferrent terrains. Anti-Magic as level 4 make Stronghold and Fortress unable to obatin this spell in their mage guilds.
Resurrection: IDK, maybe switch Anti-Magic to water would work better?
Berserk & Town Portal: Berserk it's fine. Town Portal it's complicated, change too much this spell would crash some older maps, still think a limitation use like DD it's a better solution.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted May 19, 2021 07:15 PM |
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@orrinisthebest
Give up on tier switching of spells in that case I'd say. I do have to admit I agree with a good amount of your suggestions.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted May 19, 2021 07:44 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 05:52, 20 May 2021.
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I think a conservative change would be mass slayer and fire shield.
Annoyance isn't something to take over balance, Blind is more annoying, possibly armageddon and implosion is more annoying, so.
Plus, you can still delete Fire Shield with simple mass dispel.
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 19, 2021 08:10 PM |
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Okay, then I'm probably gonna try Mass Fire Shield and come back to tell you about my experience at a later date. 
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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted May 19, 2021 08:14 PM |
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Assuming things are moving in MultiPlayer-wise direction i don't think the changes i mentioned would be too radical. Sooner or later player will have to hesitate before choosing a magic school on leveling up. Neither OP spells like TP/Berserk, nor blind is untouchable and when it is seemed necessary they all will lose their initial position. Even if it means damaging good old custom maps.
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syth
Hired Hero
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posted May 22, 2021 10:25 AM |
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Edited by syth at 10:29, 22 May 2021.
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Here are my takes on some of spells/skills
Town Portal: It’s a delicate one but I think I found a simple solution. Make it so that you are able to choose which town to portal to at each skill level including skill level “none” (without earth magic). The cost of portaling is the percentage of your total movement points.
No Earth magic: %100 of your movement(you cannot move that day)
Basic Earth Magic: %70 of your movement( you can only portal once)
Advanced Earth Magic: %50 of your movement( you can either portal twice or move and portal)
Expert Earth Magic: %35 of your movement( you can portal two times with some movement left)
This would solve it immediately.Also would cut down the dominance of logicstics+TP strategies.Not able to return every day to home castle would also increase multiple hero strategies, mana conversion strategies,lower rate of hit and run strategies.
Slow/Blind/Haste/Shield/Blind: The durations of these low level spells are very long.I propose there should be an inverse proportionality with spell duration vs spell level.So the slow should last 1/5th of your spell power.A 10 spell power mage would only have two rounds of slow for example. On the other hand for a 2nd level blind spell it would be 1/4th of duration so an 8 spell power mage would have 2 rounds of duration. This way the the snowty duration extender artifacts would be also in demand.
Slow extended:The problem with slow is it’s too dam solid of a spell. Even if we cut down the duration it will be still a usefull spell. I would suggest making some of the creatues mostly corporal ,element creatures or spell casters immune to slow.
My list would be;
Thunderbird, stormbird, genie ,efreet, zombie, specter, war unicorn,dendroids, seawitch, zealot, ogreemagi, basilisc . Some castles have already magic immune creatures so I didn’t list them.This way when mass slow is cast these creatures will give some reaction possibilities to the owner. Also it will be harder to clean them up on the maps.
A basic level artifact that prohibits slow/haste on battlemap (ideall a backpack artifact or cape,ring) would also help things out.
Land Mine: Increase in damage and add in a distruption ray effect for the expert level.So in big fights that extra decreases in defense would matter.If the creature just moves on the mine path it would be collection multiple distruption rays.
Remove Obstacle: With landmines better it could be an on demand spell.On the other hand at advanced level in siege fight it could remove “moat” and on expert level a portion of “castle wall”.With the changes I propose to balistics this would make even more sense.
Hypnotize: This one needs good changing.First the duration should not be based on spell power but on the expertise level. Upto advanced level it should be one round, on expert level it should be 2 rounds.
Then the number changes:
The basic level should give you 100hp+25x spell power
Advanced level should give you 200hp+30 x spell power
Expert level should give you 300hp+30 x spell power
However this should be based on a “level 7th and 6th level creatures”.Weak creatures have weak wills. So it should be easier to manipulate low level creatures.An inverse proportionality is again used but by thresholds.So what if it was 3 times easier to hypnotize a goblin bunch(level 1,2 3 creatures) and 2 times easier to hypnotize mid levels( 4th ,5th)
Lets do the math here. Hobgoblin has an hp of 5 and ancient behemoth has an hp of 300. Lets say you have spell power of 10 which puts your total hp to hypnotize to 600.You can hypnotize 2 ancient behemoths which is fair because players don’t want their prized units hypnotized so easily.
However on the level 1 goblin hand you would have 1800 hp worth of power. You could control 360 goblins. Or you could control 15 thunderbirds which is a game changer or at least a distruptor.
Inferno: The damage could be boosted but a random 1 turn lasting blindness chance would be also nice.Would bring some utility to the spell.
Eagle Eye Skill: It should carbon copy a cast spell by chance per round and cast it on a random target.No mass spell cast should be allowed.So if somebody casts mass slow you only cast slow on random target. My skill level proposal would be. If it’s a lighting bolt for example you do it with your own spell power and skill level.
Basic: %25 chance to copy and cast a 1-3rd level spell on a random target.
Advanced: % 35 chance to copy and cast a 1-3rd level spell on random target.
Expert: % 40 chance to copy and cast a 1-4th level spell on random target.
Balistics: The skill is fine in offsence but since in later stages of the game the castle defenses become a bit obsolute it becomes also useless. Maybe the skill should be boosting the defense side as well. The skill should also increase siege wall hp, siege tower hp and moat damage(maybe double it at expert level). The towers under ballistics expert should also do more damage to flying units(%25 more in basic, %75 more in expert).
This will also make flying units a bit more vulnerable and make protection spells such as air shield, earthquake juicier in some levels. An increase in defense would also mean tactics and artillery with cannons would be in more demand.
Scouting: This should also give information about creature numbers, artifacts amount of mana a hero has expert. Opening just some hexes at the beginning is not worth it.
First Aid: First aid tent resurrecting at expert level is I think at everybody's list.At advanced level it should also add +3 hp to all living creatures maybe?
Learning: It should work like scholar, you should get experience by meeting with other heroes or entering other towns. Once per week if you meet with a friendly hero you gain experience with formula below. This is just a suggestion;
Basic: (The difference of XP between the learning hero and teacher) x %20 and 500 xp per per town lvl visited
Advanced:(The difference of XP between the learning hero and teacher) x %25 and 750 xp per per town lvl visited
Expert:(The difference of XP between the learning hero and teacher) x%35 and 1000 xp per town lvl visited
This way if you have good lvl heroes you can build up your secondary hero fairly quickly and it will be useful fairly quickly without going around killing stuff.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 22, 2021 12:19 PM |
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The most players don't like Eagle Eye. But hidden/secret Fear spell.
He said "The Fear spell was ‘cut’ because it was little more than ‘bad morale’ in another form. Later, I thought it was better to convert the mechanic into the Fear ability for the Azure Dragon."
So RoE's Eagle Eye was a very powerful. Because of Fear Spell is only one hero, if Scholar hasn't used.
Ok and we can't copy WoG.
Now I have a two suggestion:
A). Basic EE you can cast one extra spell. Advanced you can cast spells two times. Expert you can cast three times something spells. This is bonus. Just a powerful as hell.
B). Fear back! Only one Fear spell in a pyramid, many pyramids always have only one possibility to get a Fear. Then powerful Scholar or EE. Hm without bonus. But lesser pleasure.
Other
Wyverns! Give a Fire immune without adds on hp, etc when powerful as hell. It enough well. Why? Wyvern is a water dragon. Water beat the Fire, so gets a Fire immune. But I want be 50% Fire Resistance. Protection from Fire means Armaggedon, but.. Ok Fire immune isn't hard to edit.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Syth
Hired Hero
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posted May 24, 2021 10:47 AM |
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Ghost said:
A). Basic EE you can cast one extra spell. Advanced you can cast spells two times. Expert you can cast three times something spells. This is bonus. Just a powerful as hell.
Any skill that allows you to cast more spells per turn would be overkill. But yes the eagle eye has to change.
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LouWeed
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 24, 2021 11:27 PM |
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What if Eagle Eye allowed you to learn spells at the level the spell was cast by the enemy?
E.g your hero has Eagle Eye, but no Earth Magic - they battle an enemy who does have earth magic, expert level - the enemy casts mass slow - your hero then has whatever chance it is to learn slow at expert level, i.e mass slow, without needing earth magic.
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E1ChuRich
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 25, 2021 08:38 AM |
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LouWeed said:
What if Eagle Eye allowed you to learn spells at the level the spell was cast by the enemy?
E.g your hero has Eagle Eye, but no Earth Magic - they battle an enemy who does have earth magic, expert level - the enemy casts mass slow - your hero then has whatever chance it is to learn slow at expert level, i.e mass slow, without needing earth magic.
This sounds pretty good to me
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 25, 2021 09:33 AM |
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Syth said:
Ghost said:
A). Basic EE you can cast one extra spell. Advanced you can cast spells two times. Expert you can cast three times something spells. This is bonus. Just a powerful as hell.
Any skill that allows you to cast more spells per turn would be overkill. But yes the eagle eye has to change.
Yes neutral. But no against enemy, if you casted 3 times, and enemy casts dispel, and then casts again, if enemy has EE. So you should a condiser. A very hard game. Remember problem about Armaggedon. If damage spells can't use, only positive spells. Alternative if the first EE, it means hero can't learn Earth, Water, Air and Fire. If hero has Earth already, so can't get EE. Then hero can cast Armaggedon, Animated Dead, etc Idea can be fool. 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 25, 2021 10:30 AM |
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LouWeed said:
What if Eagle Eye allowed you to learn spells at the level the spell was cast by the enemy?
E.g your hero has Eagle Eye, but no Earth Magic - they battle an enemy who does have earth magic, expert level - the enemy casts mass slow - your hero then has whatever chance it is to learn slow at expert level, i.e mass slow, without needing earth magic.
Still useless unfortunately. Anything that is conditional (only works if <enter condition> ) is useless in a game like this. Not to mention that multiplayer currently is mostly about a single endgame fight, not anything in between.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 25, 2021 10:59 AM |
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Then B alternative is useless, because the same thing. DF 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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