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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 166 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 150 ... 162 163 164 165 166 · «PREV
RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted March 24, 2021 01:03 PM
Edited by RerryR at 13:04, 24 Mar 2021.

artu said:
Hourglass said:
siryus13 said:
"Curse of Yaga" helmet or ring..; in case of helmet I'd give it 0attack / 0def / -20 power / +5knowledge; and an effect that allows to cast twice per turn.


I actually kinda like this on an idea level, but I think presented like this, I fear it's still pretty OP - achieving 20 spell power is not that hard, and every point after that would be very valuable. Perhaps limiting it's power with certain % could work as a solution?

It's the powerful buff and debuffs that make this so hard to balance. The option of being able to be both defensive and offensive on the same turn is extremely powerful. But still, I would love to see some sort of way of being able to cast two spells per round.

I take it, itís -20 to spell power, not plus 20. Thatís why itís a ďcurse.Ē So, you will have your damage spells nerfed to almost no effect but youíll be able cast mass slow AND curse at the same time etc.


Just cast mass Earth and gg
unless you have a system where the actual slow value scales with your spell power. In this case, such artifacts would really be very interesting.

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siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted March 25, 2021 11:04 AM

another artifact idea is "Amulet of nightmares", which has 15% chance of fearing a random enemy per turn for each empty stack in your army.

which means if your hero has no units it would be 105% (obvously when you enter a battle with no units it is an instant loss), but if you are running a single slot then you have 90% chance that one enemy stack will skip it's turn.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted March 25, 2021 12:12 PM

siryus13 said:
another artifact idea is "Amulet of nightmares", which has 15% chance of fearing a random enemy per turn for each empty stack in your army.

which means if your hero has no units it would be 105% (obvously when you enter a battle with no units it is an instant loss), but if you are running a single slot then you have 90% chance that one enemy stack will skip it's turn.


Vampire Lords agree with that

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2021 12:22 AM

Couple of new secondary skill ideas:

Vitality

Increases health of your units by 1/2/4.

It's a simple skill, but would make some of the lower tier creatures more appealing in the end.

Scavenge

Hero contributes 1/2/3 of any non-gold resource to your cause.
(given resources are completely random, it could give 3 separate resources, all of the same resource and anything in-between.)

Pretty similar to Estates, and could be useful for secondary heroes.


Competence

Your hero gets 1/2/3 additional miscellaneous artifact slots.

Probably very powerful end game skill, but in the early game this is likely going to do next to nothing.


I would like to point out that I wouldn't want the game to have any extra skills, but rather ban some of the current worst skills - for example mold the 3 war machine related skills into one.

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siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted March 26, 2021 11:54 AM

MattII said:
Hourglass said:
siryus13 said:
"Curse of Yaga" helmet or ring..; in case of helmet I'd give it 0attack / 0def / -20 power / +5knowledge; and an effect that allows to cast twice per turn.


I actually kinda like this on an idea level, but I think presented like this, I fear it's still pretty OP - achieving 20 spell power is not that hard, and every point after that would be very valuable. Perhaps limiting it's power with certain % could work as a solution?
50% reduction? Is that possible?

Yes "50% reduction" would make more sense, as it is not a combination artifact - could be acquired quite early and with zero power the curses/blesses would be a waste of mana. It also makes it less powerful at the endgame, cause sometimes on large enough maps you can end up having 50+ power; in that case the trade off would be higher.

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siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted March 26, 2021 11:59 AM
Edited by siryus13 at 12:28, 26 Mar 2021.

Hourglass said:
Couple of new secondary skill ideas:
Scavenge



I think going back to how 'Brute' works (Soul Reformer: Gives 50% of battle experience in gold to owner player - Can cast Bloodlust once per battle; duration is equal to Commander Magic Power) would be cooler, but 50% is too much; so I'd change it for Basic to be 10%, Advanced 20% and Expert 30%.

---

There could be also an artifact that can be passed by to other heroes (obviously) which functions as 'Market of Time', except you sacrifice some portion of your current experience & gold to forget a single secondary skill - can be used once per week per hero.

---

While on that topic of useless skills, Eagle Eye and Learning could also see some rework.

Eagle Eye: similarly how 'Eye of the Magi' works, but it would grant you an adventure map spell instead to reveal a ten square radius area around the area you choose (like when clicking DimDoor to an unknown territory - but you don't have to be within range). The range of the revealed territory could be further boosted by Scouting & Spyglass artifact.
..and actually in combat it could do what I mentioned in my previous post, that you wouldn't need Expert magic to cast the same spell on multiple enemies of the same type.

Learning: either boost the percentages...; or give it an extra effect so that you can 'upgrade' the Magic Schools into a single one. "Master of Magic" secondary skill - which makes you expert in all four magic schools -> if you already have all four it'd replace them with this single one, and if you have only one, then you'd have to be upgrading them till you get them to expert; once expert it gets merged, so you woulnd't want to be running around with 4 basic schools cause it takes up secondary skill slots, but finish off leveling them in sequence.
The rank of the secondary would be - in case you've got for example Air Magic to expert: "Master of Air"; when you get two or three to expert - "Master of Elements"; and when you get all four it would became "Master of Magic".
(Now, I don't know how feasible this is to code it, since this wouldn't be treated as a secondary that you can upgrade normally by just leveling up your hero and choosing Basic/Advanced/Expert.. and the fact that it requires "Learning" to be triggered makes it even harder to implement I guess)

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2021 08:26 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 20:29, 26 Mar 2021.

Hourglass said:
Few new artifact ideas:

So, these items would get banned:

Bird of Perception
Stoic Watchman
Pendant of Death
Pendant of Life

These are simply very bad artifacts. Pendant of Life is definitely the most useful one, but overall I think it is doing more harm to game than it's giving back.

These three should also be banned:

Pendant of Dispassion
Pendant of Free Will
Pendant of Total Recall

... but the effects they bring to game are important enough, so rather introduce a new artifact which would mold them together:

Pendant of Unbreakable Will - Your troops are immune against Berserk, Hypnotize and Forgetfulness.

Pendant of Holiness should could also be a bit more interesting if it was banned and simply replaced by a new artifact:

Pendant of Divinity - Your troops are immune against Curse and Weakness. (while it sounds almost as useless, it would be very useful in Fly hives and when fighting against sea witches/sorcerers.)

And now, some new artifact ideas (treasure level):

Goblin Chieftain's Mace - +1 Attack (main hand)

Squire's Shield - +1 Defense (off-hand)

(While the stats might not sound anything special, they could still serve a purpose in the early game, especially if player is willing to use secondary heroes for fighting.)

Emblem of Mastery - Your hero is considered 3 levels higher when counting specialty. (misc)

Ring of Full Moon - In combat, your opponent's spells cost 2 spell points more to cast. (stacks with Magic Damper ability) (ring slot)

Cape of Righteousness = All creatures from "Good" alignment can be mixed together without losing morale. (cape slot))

Robe of Unholy Alliance - All creatures from "Evil" alignment can be mixed together without losing morale. (cape slot)


I don't really see the point of banning useless artifacts, these are used anyway for seers, since the sets can't be used for seers. Also +1 AT or +1 DEF is used with the rampart set already. Rest sounds okay, even if I don't know what "Emblem of Mastery"'s effect means. Anyway HoMM4 has a lot of useful artifacts already... I'd like some to come in HoMM3.

I personally miss cursed artifacts. Artifacts you can't unequip outside of a town (where a mageguild is)... This could prevent the use of certain overpowered Set artifacts for some exploit purposes...

Well of Wizard -> Is just used in the end of the turn to get spellpoints for next round... I'd make it cursed, that you can just unequip it in town. That way there is no more option to get rid of it every turn.

Same goes for boots of speed for a necropolis hero that also owns the undead boots for fight.

Also I'd like more "curse effect" artifacts similar to titans thunder... Maybe some special relict that grants damage reduction for all units, but also lowers the Defense by 20 points... something like that.

Hourglass said:
Couple of new secondary skill ideas:

Vitality

Increases health of your units by 1/2/4.

It's a simple skill, but would make some of the lower tier creatures more appealing in the end.

Scavenge

Hero contributes 1/2/3 of any non-gold resource to your cause.
(given resources are completely random, it could give 3 separate resources, all of the same resource and anything in-between.)

Pretty similar to Estates, and could be useful for secondary heroes.


Competence

Your hero gets 1/2/3 additional miscellaneous artifact slots.

Probably very powerful end game skill, but in the early game this is likely going to do next to nothing.


I would like to point out that I wouldn't want the game to have any extra skills, but rather ban some of the current worst skills - for example mold the 3 war machine related skills into one.


I posted one of these ideas aswell wome years ago. At least for additional hitpoints -> Inferno could use that. While "Scavenge" is near to useless anyway. "Competence" sounds OP and hard to implement

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted March 27, 2021 09:10 PM

Only H3 necromancer's artifact. H4 has many artifacts. If nice Cardinal medal gives +5% resurrection bonus also 5%, 10% or 15% Magic Mirror, because different H3, so or three Magic Mirror artifacts become combo without Air skill. Why not also Sorcery. True those are little artifact. H4 has many artifact due to spells, skills and creatures like immune to Dragon breath. Then I like Fear Amulet idea.

If HotA takes Homm2 heroes, I hope also spells like Vampiric Tour is a very powerful spell to Fire, when belonged to dark spell. No Earth, and resurrection is there. Steal Enchament also to Fire. No Water due to Dispel. But I know well where spells move to Tome. I think JVC used MTG ideas. More H4. But HotA can use an old engine a new idea and vision by today experienced. HotA keeping original four Tomes, etc

But no come true. This only talking.. No one can know if they take a idea yet.
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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted March 28, 2021 11:35 PM

Speaking about new artifacts, how about:

- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's speed in battles.
- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's max health in battles.
- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's attack/defense/power/knowledge in battles.
- Artifacts that increase the experience points that the hero gets.
- Artifacts of only one use, like potions to increase the strenght, defense, power or intelligence of the hero, or the life, speed, morale or luck of the troops. This effect would have a time limit, for only the next battle or until the beginning of the next turn of the player.
- The problem with the Grail is that it is always in the same place in custom maps, so I would suggest to implement an option in the map editor that allows the Grail to appear randomly somewhere in the map. Also, it could be handly to give the option to the map creators to draw different regions where the Grail could appear.
- Wind Bag. It increases the hero's movement points in a boat.
- Seven-league boots. It allows the hero to cast one dimension door per turn at no cost.

Also, maybe this new adventure map spells would be interesting:

- Invisibility. Makes the hero invisible while walking through the map, and the hero becomes visible again when his movement ends.
- False Hero. Creates a clone of your hero on the map that you can also control. It is a fake clone, it has no real troops or items. You cannot attack with him, you can only move him around the map in order to divert enemy attention.
- Summon Army. Creates an enemy group on the adventure map that does not grant experience and evaporates in two or three days.

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timmysoboy
timmysoboy


Hired Hero
posted March 30, 2021 11:34 PM

I like false hero (though I'd have it be a spell, and the illusion hero can't move) and extra exp. arti.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2021 05:11 PM

I answer directly in here without quotes:

- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's speed in battles.

OP imho, at least if its in use for already fast towns, it would also need major or relic status even for a single -1.

- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's max health in battles.

This would mean a permanent "aging" effect for all enemy units... (20% chance on ghost dragon for a single stack) -> way out of the line -> OP

- Artifacts that decrease the enemy's attack/defense/power/knowledge in battles.

I'd stay with "Interference" for Spellpower. Decreasing AT and DEF could be useful but only in a very limited use.

- Artifacts that increase the experience points that the hero gets.

I'd buff "Learning" in the first place and put artifacts/set artifacts for it ingame. anyway... the actual levelprogress is out of the line... since the level is exponential -> no use anyway as long the progession isn't near to linear.

- Artifacts of only one use, like potions to increase the strenght, defense, power or intelligence of the hero, or the life, speed, morale or luck of the troops. This effect would have a time limit, for only the next battle or until the beginning of the next turn of the player.

why not... but I guess thats harder to implement than it has use.

- The problem with the Grail is that it is always in the same place in custom maps, so I would suggest to implement an option in the map editor that allows the Grail to appear randomly somewhere in the map. Also, it could be handly to give the option to the map creators to draw different regions where the Grail could appear.

??? If you don't place a grail on map it is randomly placed, while when you place it, you still have to option in what radius it may be placed...

- Wind Bag. It increases the hero's movement points in a boat.

we already have movement on sea artifacts and even more specialists for navigation.

- Seven-league boots. It allows the hero to cast one dimension door per turn at no cost.

maybe as relic but DD is already quite powerful.


As for the spells I'm not convinced....

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 05, 2021 11:25 AM

Spell rework ideas repeated:

- Make Town Portal universal like magic missile. No longer you're stuck with earth as a must-have on any reasonable setting.

Water magic
- make SLOW a water spell (canonically it fits, make it more cold/freeze themed over the current "stuck in the mud" theme).
- add a tier 5 spell. There is no tier5 AOE spell so a Blizzard spell would be excellent. The most simple way to make it work would be to use Inferno's AOE with Meteor shower's scaling.

Water magic fixed.

Earth magic

No changes necessary. Losing slow is a blow, but it's still great. No changes necessary.

Fire magic

- Either fix Fireball/Inferno scaling, or ad an effect to compensate their insufficient damage potential. Defense reduction that lasts 1 turn would be likely a good idea.
- Buff fireshield a bit to make getting it less of a downer.
- Sacrifice needs bug fixes and formula tweaks to make it more valuable.

Air magic

Buff useless spells like Magic mirror (mass+% tweaks to make it both balanced and desireable) and Counterstrike. DD and view air hold this school together, no big buffs necessary.

You're welcome.

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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 05, 2021 12:05 PM

You would still need Earth Magic for Resurrection. Necro would probably also want Earth for Animate Dead and Death Ripple.

Each school has 1 counterspell, if you moved Slow to Water, Water would have 2, but Earth none, also Overlords and Barbarians can not learn Water Magic, so that means no Mass Slow for them.

I don't know about making TP all schools, it might be a good idea, but it is still far too powerful imo.

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 05, 2021 12:37 PM
Edited by fred79 at 12:38, 05 Apr 2021.

town portal and dimension door are both too op, and they break maps that don't specifically call for them in order to progress.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2021 12:57 PM

Quote:

- Make Town Portal universal like magic missile. No longer you're stuck with earth as a must-have on any reasonable setting.


I feel this would be a good idea, as it makes earth less of a necessity.


Quote:
Water magic
- make SLOW a water spell (canonically it fits, make it more cold/freeze themed over the current "stuck in the mud" theme).
- add a tier 5 spell. There is no tier5 AOE spell so a Blizzard spell would be excellent. The most simple way to make it work would be to use Inferno's AOE with Meteor shower's scaling.


Well, I think changing Slow to water would make sense in many ways, however, I feel this is probably a bit too big change for my taste. The lvl 5 damage spell on other hand sounds very promising.
Quote:

Fire magic

- Either fix Fireball/Inferno scaling, or ad an effect to compensate their insufficient damage potential. Defense reduction that lasts 1 turn would be likely a good idea.
- Buff fireshield a bit to make getting it less of a downer.
- Sacrifice needs bug fixes and formula tweaks to make it more valuable.


Fireball and Inferno indeed need a fix for their damage and nothing more, especially Inferno is very disappointing. Frost ring damage should also be increased.

Making Fire shield a mass spell would be good start, but I'm not sure if that would actually change anyone's desire towards Fire school.

Sacrifice is actually an okay spell, it's just very overshadowed by normal resurrection. Probably the fact that it cannot target undeads in any way is kinda weird.

I feel Fire school is not that bad as a skill, it's just very underwhelming when compared to air and earth school. It has it strong points by having berserk, which is great. Curse is also not bad cast in bank meta. Probably Fire should have another good new spell, like opposite Prayer, which was suggested by at least me and phoenix few years back.
Quote:

Air magic

Buff useless spells like Magic mirror (mass+% tweaks to make it both balanced and desireable) and Counterstrike. DD and view air hold this school together, no big buffs necessary.

I'm not sure if Magic Mirror is actually worth saving for. It's still bugged as far as I know, and it doesn't really make much sense as Antimagic is already a thing. For example, if water would get a new tier 5 spell, it would probably make most sense to just ban Magic mirror altogether.

Counterstrike is rather hard to buff, I feel the spell is kinda fine, but the fact that it's a tier 4 spell makes no sense. If it was a tier 2 spell for example, it could probably see some play sometimes. But overall I feel air is in very good spot anyways, and it's not necessary to buff it anyway.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 05, 2021 01:34 PM

But handicap matches need. You at TP odds against Maretti, for example. If you won 5 wins in 9 games. It means TP is powerful. You don't need TP against AI. What you need? Slow? We buffed. Now you should understand your idea doesn't work. What's the handicap match? A good player vs great. Great player hasn't TP. You use a TP. Because you think you beat the opponent. In general great opponent agrees with, because of we can see do TP rules the game.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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