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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted May 30, 2021 10:58 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 23:23, 30 May 2021.
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Quote:
That is true. But JO is currently trending, and is likely to become the metagame soon. People are too tired of chaining and bank meta, can't blame'em. Chaining can feel tedius, bank meta is just ehh, we've been doing this for two decades.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroes3/comments/nkw9e4/is_jo_becoming_next_big_thing_in_heroes_3/
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroes3/comments/lhfoth/why_is_everyone_playing_jo/
Most people are enthusiastic about playing JO.
My only complaint is the timer (I don't like being rushed that much) and spell banning rules, I've never been a fan of agreeing not to use certain stuff unless it's 100% gamebreaking like SoD Necropolis.
So you admit wyvern banks don't count for the argument of not giving anything special to Fortress 
PS:_ Oops, faction slip. Guess it doesn't help they are all named with "castle" synonims.
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Never changing = never improving
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 30, 2021 11:05 PM |
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I just wish there was a way to give Fortress Mage Guild 4, Stronghold already feels pretty good.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 31, 2021 02:49 PM |
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Are you sure? Fortress doesn't need Crystal and Gems, later on Mercury. RoE campaign showed Fortress is rich resources and Stronghold is rich gold. And final campaign they attack against Castle for spells. Castle hasn't gold and resource also lesser troops. When wyverns, behemoths, pathfinding and swamp area. So it's not worth.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 31, 2021 03:42 PM |
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Then as an optional "add-on" to Fortress.
Castle is insane, not only do they have Archangels, they also get a chance to get both Resurrect and Clone in their Mage Guild. That is Resurrection X3, Fortress has 0... (+ the all important OP TP.)
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 31, 2021 03:54 PM |
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Hmm.. Then Earth + Water should be obsession. It does "Order" in H4. If we agree with 4lvl to Fortress, but no available TP. Because of dispel or a very fast troop and stronghold. But HotA Team has voice.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 31, 2021 04:08 PM |
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That's why I said optional.
If it is somehow an insult to Stronghold, I guess both towns could get a Mage Guild 4, but thematically Mage Guild 4 does'nt really fit Stronghold.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 31, 2021 05:16 PM |
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Yes. Stronghold is thoroughbred mighty. Tower for magic. And Fortress is witch. Even if earth+water+fire aren't excellent, if martial and scouting skills are lesser. Rarely I've played fire. I play fire, if Dungeon and Inferno, because better. So 4lvl! Then air can be useful.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted May 31, 2021 06:26 PM |
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Stronghold has several special buildings with cool unique effects (escape tunnel, war machine seller, creature selling guild) while Fortress doesn't even have a single one.
And yes, castle is OP. Plus if wyverns are an argument, angel banks they can convert to resurrecting lvl7 archangels (which even have ore value than regular lvl7, they even had to be made more expensive than normal, one of the few creatures even NWC itself had to nerf) and then clone, is like 5x stronger.
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Never changing = never improving
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 31, 2021 06:43 PM |
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Because Cyclopses are expensive to build. Stronghold joins neutral for Crystal, etc And why a Cyclopses from bank, so the same thing Wyverns. Those are good. I'm talked about SoD. So Cyclopses shouldn't be. I made balanced HotA. Two players like my Chaotic Event Ok I wonder that true map hasn't a balance. Phoenix doesn't like a map, if you two play, I recommend Rampart. Later on advanced level, you two play other Team, and the last Stronghold, because of true might without spell skills. But you two get a know why map must be. Eyes their. I don't like. 4lvl is a good idea.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 01, 2021 02:18 PM |
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How would guys feel about 3 new artifacts that adds -1 (treasure), -1 (minor) and -2 (major) speed to enemy units? (Minimum speed should never go lower than 2, even combined with Slow.)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 01, 2021 03:12 PM |
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NimoStar said:
So you admit wyvern banks don't count for the argument of not giving anything special to Fortress
Well, it kinda heavily depends on the meta. Or even, individual heroes.
Ban Luna and suddenly nobody wants to play HOTA Conflux anymore and it is currently one of the most sought after towns.
That being said, a lot of towns don't even have anything interesting regarding their special buildings. I don't think it's actually that important.
NimoStar said:
And yes, castle is OP.
But it really isn't, did you check Lexiav's tier list? It's not a paradigm you cannot question, but gives you some idea on what is strong and what isn't. It was meant for JC and bank meta, though.
Town tier list
Outside bank meta it would be the same Necro/Conflux on top (Luna and Vamplords are just that good to snowball), I'd say Castle is a firm A tier but below those two.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 01, 2021 03:36 PM |
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Doomforge said:
But it really isn't, did you check Lexiav's tier list? It's not a paradigm you cannot question, but gives you some idea on what is strong and what isn't. It was meant for JC and bank meta, though.
Town tier list
Outside bank meta it would be the same Necro/Conflux on top (Luna and Vamplords are just that good to snowball), I'd say Castle is a firm A tier but below those two.
Putting Cove that low is a joke or he does'nt know how to play Cove.
If it is the terrain, then the exact same applies to Fortress, except Fortress has only 1 hero with Pathfinding where Cove has 3, so that would place Cove at least before Fortress.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted June 01, 2021 03:44 PM |
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And no one is right. Why you believe in video? I recommend you show your video, so you can see yourself they believe in you.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 01, 2021 04:28 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Putting Cove that low is a joke or he does'nt know how to play Cove.
Or maybe you just overrate it.
Cove is very expensive to play, its creature bank is the hardest to take without big losses (160 shooters? seriously? compare that with 100 iron golems or some griffins?) and the biom remains a problem.
If you don't play JC bank meta, it's a bit different, obviously.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 01, 2021 05:41 PM |
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Every argument is still "muh creature bank at a single map template"... my god.
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 01, 2021 06:08 PM |
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Yeah apparently creature banks, skeletons and genie lamps are the only things that mean anything to multiplayers.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted June 01, 2021 06:28 PM |
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The same matter you join to only +7lvl. In the WoG you join 7-10lvl. But.. Remember 10 Liches vs 1 Titan by HP. When 1000 Liches vs 100 Titans. H4 uses HP (monster and mapeditor). It after primary skills. Example of Archangels 30 att/def plus 99 beat the Titans or Liches, but they can beat the Archangels, if more amount, when HP and damage. Necromancy vs Diplomacy or Elixir. I don't think you understand, so I recommend you play Elite (SoD) teaches players by vision and proof.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted June 01, 2021 08:44 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
How would guys feel about 3 new artifacts that adds -1 (treasure), -1 (minor) and -2 (major) speed to enemy units? (Minimum speed should never go lower than 2, even combined with Slow.)
I think the concept is good and simple, I like it. Probably multiple slow artifacts is too good thou, or maybe it wouldn't be too much, if the artifacts would be equipped to non-misc artifact slots? The -1 speed treasure artifact would probably be the best treasure artifact there is.
But -2 speed on a relic artifact could be interesting, or -1 on major.
Phoenix4ever said:
skeletons
Wut? 
But about the creature banks:
I'm not personally much into the creature banks, but they should always be included to the discussion when balance is brought up, like it or not. They're included in nearly all random map templates, and they're original game objects. In scenario maps, the balance can be adjusted by the map maker, so IMO it makes no sense to talk about balance in those kind of maps.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 01, 2021 09:09 PM |
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Hourglass said:
I think the concept is good and simple, I like it. Probably multiple slow artifacts is too good thou, or maybe it wouldn't be too much, if the artifacts would be equipped to non-misc artifact slots? The -1 speed treasure artifact would probably be the best treasure artifact there is.
But -2 speed on a relic artifact could be interesting, or -1 on major.
If they used the same slots as the +speed artifacts, then you would be faced with the agony of choice of do I want more speed or do I want to lower the enemy's. So that would be a good idea imo.
HotA already introduced negative morale and luck artifacts, so I think negative speed artifacts would also fit well.
Yeah yeah you can have your creature banks, as long as I'm free from them. 
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted June 01, 2021 10:17 PM |
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Good! Then I want Devils/Archdevils use a true teleport without penalty. Devils are very fast.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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