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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 198 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 40 80 120 160 ... 194 195 196 197 198 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 14, 2024 02:08 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
How do you guys feel about Factory's 2 level 7 units?
I don't see the problem. You always get some other useful level 7 units, be it from banks or conquered towns and the great difference is you need to pay for these and they both cost crystal, being the dwellings so expensive that you won't have much accumulated, for sure.
I find harder to accept the ranged first strike, specially cause it looks like it was created to be exploited.
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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 14, 2024 02:45 PM

Yea.. First time I'm playing 1.7 in random Giant map.. No Factory has come, but I got Stronghold, and 6-7lvl dwellings also Torso artifact, so I go to 3-7lvl with, and I've 2 Giants and 10 Angels now.. Started game, I met fearsome Factory units, because I don't know well them.. But low HP.. I'm waiting for 7lvls, I want to see quality, raw, OP, etc
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Supreme Hero
posted January 14, 2024 06:57 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
I read a proposal on the russian forum about Factory's 2 level 7 units. It was to be able to select in the map editor if Factory should be allowed to build both level 7's or just one of them. (As in Heroes 4)
I would really like this feature, that or just make (both) couatls neutral units.

I'm not sure what this would accomplish other than doing the town all over again. The two 7 level creatures have been there from the start, and Factory has been within the idea of having two high level creatures. Everything should be rethought, and I feel it just wouldn't work.

Factory hasn't been found to be a strong town or anything like that, I'm currently thinking it's quite avarage, possibly leaning towards below-avarage.

Phoenix4ever said:

How do you guys feel about Factory's 2 level 7 units?


Not going to lie, have had really playing the new faction. After all the wait it was still worth that not everything had been revealed, and I have had fun doing some post-release analysis.

What comes to the new lvl 7's, they work bit differently than I expected. The mech path is clearly more expensive, and it seems it's more inconsistent to trying to build in the first week. The Coautls are much more manageable, but oh boy they're not comparable to dragons or angels, and unlike them they are much more restricted when it comes to soloing the early camps.

bloodsucker said:

I find harder to accept the ranged first strike, specially cause it looks like it was created to be exploited.

I agree that the autocombat results should be fixed, if there's no easy fix, I would suggest the autocombat wouldn't even trigger if you only have Gunslingers/Bounty hunters in your group.

I've not really been able to exploit them, in a normal battle the enemy will just walk to you.

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darkdill
darkdill


Hired Hero
posted January 15, 2024 08:14 PM
Edited by darkdill at 20:17, 15 Jan 2024.

I feel the need to suggest that the Factory Campaign be made a tad easier. I know the HotA campaigns are intended to be "by pros, for pros", but there's a difference between "tough but fair" and "brutally punishing". I've seen several replays on Youtube where players are doing all the pro tactics and they barely get by, needing to reload saves every time they lose even a single T1-T3 creature since any losses can make a future fight unwinnable.

It's made worse by how some fights are made so tough that you basically have to rely on dice rolls to win and otherwise have to restart the fight or reload a save each time you get RNG-screwed. That's unfair and makes it feel like you're not winning due to skill, but only because you were lucky. There should be a little more margin for error throughout the campaign so that you can afford to take a few losses outside of major battles and not ruin your chances of success.

I'm not saying the campaign should be made easy. I'm saying it should be adjusted so it doesn't feel totally unfair even for high-skill players, and should be adjusted so success doesn't rely on sheer luck.

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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 15, 2024 08:28 PM

But aged player goes to average level due to rust.. The same sports or chess.. Chess meter says



When you are 60 or 80.. You can't play Impossible.. So easier is a good thing..
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Brevan
Brevan

Tavern Dweller
posted January 18, 2024 02:41 AM

I'm really enjoying the Factory castle, and wanted to share some interesting combos I noticed:

1) Clone Automotons and rig the clone to explode so it sucks up an enemy's counter attack while doing solid AoE damage, it costs a good chunk of mana but can work awesome without Water skill.

2) Clone Engineers so the clone can repair a stack of tanking machines without using up the Engineer's repair charge.

3) Crimson Couatl's ability allows them to be immune to Armageddon while the Orb of Vulnerability is in effect.

4) Lure out an enemy stack with a sacrificial unit, then use another sacrificial unit attacking from the same square to remove the enemy's counter attack, then attack from the same square with your Olgoi-Khorkhoi to enjoy 3 attacks with no counter.

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted January 18, 2024 05:44 PM

Iíve been playing almost everyday since the patch came out and still going strong. Factory is a fun town. I like how expensive it is to full build up as it provides an enjoyable challenge.

My one complaint would be the cost of the dreadnaught dwelling. It should have cost sulfur and mercury imho, like the bounty hunter dwelling, so that it could act as an alternative option depending on what resources are available. Sandworms feel as vital to factory as Thunderbirds are to stronghold, which means the couatl dwelling will almost always be available before the dreadnaught. And the couatl just feels like the superior choice between the two.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 18, 2024 06:44 PM

Phoenix4ever said:


How do you guys feel about Factory's 2 level 7 units?



Probably the best usecase for Crimson Couatls is when paired with Frenzy or Clone.

The Clone can use the invincibility so it is guaranteed to survive at least a turn.

Frenzy is rather self explanatory.

Those units seem weak, but they do have plenty of utility with certain spells. One has to keep in mind though a full population of these units does slighly less than 50% damage of a full population of Archangels.



The robots are slow and clunky. Everything about them is clunky. Their speed, their ability, their laser animation (it's rather... ehh, how would I put it... it lacks the visual gravity?). You need teleport to make real use of those units, but by teleporting them you give up on casting something else, like the Clone mentioned earlier, which would probably benefit you more.




I think factory could use some buffs TBH. The most obvious ones would be:

- Bounty Hunters from 45 HP to 60 HP (I mean, come on, those guys are like a population of Harpy Hags..)
- Robots to 8 Speed (too slow)
- Couatls from 21 ATT/DEF to 24 ATT/DEF at least, which they had in beta

Right now the town is a mid tier in typical PVP like Duel or Jeebus, becuase they actually have the tools to get them going (early Halfings, Olgoi powerstack, Couatl+spells synergy).

However, for single player, you won't get Olgois from Pandora boxes, and you won't get tomes of magic every single game. And suddenly you're left with an extremely expensive and clunky town that just can't seem to get it going.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Supreme Hero
posted January 18, 2024 08:15 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 20:35, 18 Jan 2024.

I agree the Dreadnoughts could indeed get some changes. Currently, the mech path doesn't seem to be very worth it; The gunslingers aren't anything too special, the ability is kinda neat, but as the stack basically cannot get out of hand and thus it's not that protective layer.Also,at the end of the day they're unit with low hp, and are affected by melee penalty.

The Dreadnoughts could be somewhat viable, but it's just very hard collecting all the crystals. I think there's also quite a bit of gamble; in order to have any chances of buiding the mechs at the end of week 1, the player needs to start the path early on, and really focus on finding the crystals and gold. Because if you've started building the path, and then notice mid-week that it simply not possible, it's very likely you will end up with neither lvl 7 at week one. That's why it's far more simple and fail-safe to just follow the nature path week one, and start adding the mech path units from week 2 onward.

The automaton-mechanic combo feels pretty good thou. Since even the mechanics can repair suprisingly high number per unit, you can put automatons in rough spot, and still end up having a lossless fight, since they can be repaired even if fully destoyed.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 19, 2024 01:15 AM

Hourglass said:
The automaton-mechanic combo feels pretty good thou. Since even the mechanics can repair suprisingly high number per unit, you can put automatons in rough spot, and still end up having a lossless fight, since they can be repaired even if fully destoyed.


It's somewhat hard to make the enemies actually go for the automatons and not for the engineers. Even with tactics it sometimes just falls flat.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Supreme Hero
posted January 19, 2024 11:09 AM

Doomforge said:

It's somewhat hard to make the enemies actually go for the automatons and not for the engineers. Even with tactics it sometimes just falls flat.

I think you mentioned this before, and IIRC, you did mention high-end creatures like dragons. In that case you're absolutely right, especially without tactics; they would most likely hit something else, especially open Halflings.

I was mostly referring to battles against neutral enemies in somewhat early state in the game: When build, you get access to 5 Automatons. And in the start of the game, even if choosing Henrietta and having avarage luck, you should have a stack of around 15 mechanics, which would be exactly enough to fully restore a dead mech stack. (even 13 is enought to revive all, the one creature not being fully healed)

Now, by offering the Automatons, I meant you simply place them to enemy movement range. This will make enemies aggro them 100%, if they're the sole target. In best case scenario you can place them in a way that even if they morale after the initial hit, they could only still hit Automatons. Due their high speed, they will most likely outspeed the foes, so if you feel the stalling won't work anymore, you can simply reposition towards mechanics, if you feel the stack is being overrun, and there wouldn't be an oppoturnity for the mechanics to restore the fallen mechs.

So that's the early plan, obviously this won't work against shooting enemies, and it's not really suitable for creature banks.

For the later parts of the game, you can try building towards an unbeatable wall of steel, such as this.
Obviously, you can replace automaton stack with Dreadnoughts later on, and throw in Bounty hunters instead of the halflings.
Intrestingly, whereas both Sam and Todd would be fine early heroes for  the foundation of this strategy, they both just happen to start with Tactics. So it is by no means a "secret strategy", rather it has been thought out even in developement.

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Brevan
Brevan

Tavern Dweller
posted January 19, 2024 03:21 PM
Edited by Brevan at 15:25, 19 Jan 2024.

Oof.  Just faced a computer's Factory hero backed up by their Lightning Rod Grail building (about 160 lightning damage to all enemy troops at combat start (with Sorcery the damage is enough to bring down low Dragons)).  Judging by his troops (~12 Cyclops, 2 Firebirds, ~6 Wyverns, etc) he'd been hitting up creature banks hard, since I guess they're free for him now.  It's barely the end of month 1 so I can't think of ways to get around that hero, let alone capture his fully resourced and occupied castle, if I live to find it.

If they nerf the Lightning Rod to defending only its castle (similar to the effect of the Grail for Fortress, Dungeon, Stronghold, and Tower), or just to defending all the owner's castles, then it would still be a great Grail effect (like two free attacks by the Citadel's archer tower against all enemy stacks at combat start).

That aside, I really like the current stats of the Dreadnaught/Juggernaut ("Robots").  They're very similar to Hydras since they attack many squares without counter attack (unless you're moving), but uniquely they can shoot through a small obstacle.  Their speed works well with Engineers and Automatons.  During an attack without Waiting, your engineers can repair Automatons or Robots (depends how you line up the Engineers/Robots), and if you're Waiting then the Engineers repair the Robots while Sentinel Automotons get free attacks without needing repairs.  You could always cast Mass Haste, or use one of the Speed artifacts.  As it is, Engineers look strange because they're the only "human" without a mount that moves at speed 7, but I guess that's almost required since their 2-hex attack would kinda suck if they didn't have the movement to get around a 2-hex monster or two.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 19, 2024 03:44 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
How do you guys feel about Factory's 2 level 7 units?



Nothing wrong with it. Under certain (rare) circumstances this can make Factory make a strong town but then again that's how the game is anyway. For certain conditions/strategies each town exhibits strengths/weaknesses.

Factory's strength rather is in the creature's specialties (Repairing mech creatures, Automaton blow up, Sandworm devouring, First Shot, meditation, laser beam. Strong on paper but challenging to pull off given that some are mutually exclusive. So in order to make Factory viable you need to find ways to make use of the specialties.

In that sense Factory feels more exciting to play than older existing factions, there is more strategic variability it seems.
I've heard people say Factory was too special compared to old faction but if that's true I'll rather have it this way. Maybe some of the old factions aren't special enough instead.

How powerful on average Factory is in comparison to other towns only time and empirical evidence will show.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 19, 2024 03:54 PM
Edited by gatecrasher at 16:00, 19 Jan 2024.

darkdill said:
I feel the need to suggest that the Factory Campaign be made a tad easier. I know the HotA campaigns are intended to be "by pros, for pros", but there's a difference between "tough but fair" and "brutally punishing". I've seen several replays on Youtube where players are doing all the pro tactics and they barely get by, needing to reload saves every time they lose even a single T1-T3 creature since any losses can make a future fight unwinnable.

It's made worse by how some fights are made so tough that you basically have to rely on dice rolls to win and otherwise have to restart the fight or reload a save each time you get RNG-screwed. That's unfair and makes it feel like you're not winning due to skill, but only because you were lucky. There should be a little more margin for error throughout the campaign so that you can afford to take a few losses outside of major battles and not ruin your chances of success.

I'm not saying the campaign should be made easy. I'm saying it should be adjusted so it doesn't feel totally unfair even for high-skill players, and should be adjusted so success doesn't rely on sheer luck.


A problem already present in the HotA Cove campaign is that there are scenarios (often time-constrained by time limit or enemies growing to strong) you either need to be lucky to win in one go or you need to tackle in multiple attempts. A first scouting run to get an idea where to go and what to do (from the beginning or from "turning points) followed by the actual "business" run. Some scenarios that have you zigzag the map will require reloads when you've taken the wrong branch.
Now these kind of pre-scouting actually is some kind of poor man's cheating so it is kinda frustrating.

Have you actually tried lower difficulty settings? IIRC the effect should be bigger with the Factory campaign.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 19, 2024 10:21 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:24, 19 Jan 2024.

HotA Cove campaign on Impossible difficulty setting is a "rush or die" excercise: you have to take the enemy town at 127 (that is, 2nd week, 7th day), and hold it when AI comes back for it with a much bigger army than yours. This is what's required from you at the Terror of the Seas campaign, which is considered the hardest.

This goes against what many players that only play vs. AI are used to, so they do find it challenging.

Personally, I still rate HoMM2's Price of Loyalty campaigns (Descendants in particular if not allied with Elves) as more challenging/frustrating than whatever HotA has in store.

Also, the difficulty level drops to zero once you get some SP/Knowledge, Expert Earth magic and Summon Earth Elemental. Summon Elemental is completely broken in campaigns, you can rush the AI in 1st week with little to no consideration - it's not that hard when you summon a couple dozen elementals per cast with 400 mana remaining, eh?
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 22, 2024 10:37 PM

I just found out you can customize Universities and Seafaring Academies and allow Interference, even though it's disabled under allowed skills in map editor.

Suggestion: Could you do the same with Witch Huts, so we don't get the message with the hut has been deserted, when it picks a skill that is disabled.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 23, 2024 09:50 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:53, 23 Jan 2024.

The only time I saw that was when I tried to force a skill that was forbidden, Navigation on a map generated without water (but then I draw a lake...)
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Supreme Hero
posted January 31, 2024 05:42 PM

Some suggestions:

1) Whereas I understand why you wanted to change how the Town portal and DD are acquired, I would recommend moving the change under HD mod's Tournament rules. Currently, even DD works differently in that enviroment, so I think it would be a perfect fit. Currently, Town portal and DD for more casual games seem more of a "secret spells" which they should not be. I would suspect casual gamers being a bit loss after change.

2) I would change how you upgrade your Pixies. The most recent change to move the upgrade to Garden of Life (horde building) imo doesn't really make much sense. No other creatures can be upgraded after obtaining the horde building, so it seems a bit out of place. I would recommend moving the change to either Town hall, Marketplace or just simply to Mage guild. This way you can keep the building tempo up, and there still isn't a way to upgare the pixies on turn 1.

3) Similarly why Sleepkeeper exist, I would introduce an artifact to the game that kinda reverts the nerf done to summoning spells.

Summoner's stone
Misc slot
Major

Amount of summoned elementals is increased by 1 per spell power.

4) I suggest some changes to the Factory mech-line. Currently, I feel there ain't much of an true choice; the Crystal cost for Dreadnought building is usually too much for the week one, and players are kinda forced to go with the nature path. Typicially speaking, it's not worth going go for the risk, as you need to start building the path towards way before you have any idea if you're even given a chance of obtaining enought crystal on week one. I suggest changing the cost for something else. It could be some amount of cyrstals, and some amount of another special resource. This would make obtaining the mechs far more easier.

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LordCameron
LordCameron


Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
posted February 01, 2024 01:50 AM

Does anyone else find the Automaton -> Sentinel Automaton upgrade strange?

It reminds me of Gog -> Magog where you didn't want to upgrade the unit, until the HOTA changed it so it was actually a good idea in most use cases.

I guess Skeletons are still a "don't upgrade" type unit so it's not completely without precedence.

(This isn't a for or against, just an observation)
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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted February 01, 2024 06:07 AM

Demon? Hell Hound? And Centaur in WoG.. Player must have a choice..
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