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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 92 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 ... 82 83 84 85 86 ... 90 92 · «PREV / NEXT»
Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 05, 2019 08:29 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 20:30, 05 Aug 2019.

I kinda decided to expand upon the Eagle Eye debate. But instead of merging it, just giving it new effects.

Basic Eagle Eye: Lets you see your opponents spell points, morale, and luck.  
Advanced Eagle Eye: Along with the Basic effect, Lets you see your opponents skills and their level.
Expert Eagle Eye: Along with the past 2 levels, allows you to open your opponents spellbook and see all the spells they have learned, as well as see what artifacts they have.
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"Everyone is a schlong sucker." - Kayna
"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted August 05, 2019 10:52 PM

Oddball13579 said:
I kinda decided to expand upon the Eagle Eye debate. But instead of merging it, just giving it new effects.

Basic Eagle Eye: Lets you see your opponents spell points, morale, and luck.  
Advanced Eagle Eye: Along with the Basic effect, Lets you see your opponents skills and their level.
Expert Eagle Eye: Along with the past 2 levels, allows you to open your opponents spellbook and see all the spells they have learned, as well as see what artifacts they have.

I feel that although still a bit of a stretch, new effects for a skill is much closer to in-theme for Horn of the Abyss as an expansion than merging skills.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 05, 2019 11:08 PM

I don't get why pirates were made faster then witches and Sea Dogs faster then sorceresses but I think it was a bad move. Now it's less feasible to use several stacks of witches to cast Disrupting Ray on a target before the Pirates/Sea Dogs hit them hard.
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etore
etore


Adventuring Hero
posted August 06, 2019 12:34 AM

Suggestion: rename this thread to: "What to do with Eagle Eye?"

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 06, 2019 06:17 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:07, 06 Aug 2019.

@Bloodsucker Sea Dogs are just completely OP. I know they are expensive and HotA calls them glass cannons, but they are still more durable than Grand Elves for example. Perhaps it would make sense if Sea Dogs and Sorceresses switched speed again, but it seems like they are both too fast. Haspids too.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 06, 2019 02:31 PM

Yes, they are OP but this was the oldest trick in the book for HotA army disposition and now it doesn't work that well. Ok, you can wait and then they will attack in the right order but that means all enemy shooters will target the Sea Dogs before they can shot.
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 06, 2019 05:51 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 17:54, 06 Aug 2019.

Every town has at least one powerful unit with powerful ability. Don't see the big problem here.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted August 06, 2019 05:53 PM

Maurice said:
phoenix4ever said:
Scholar is used to teach and learn.


Yes, you're right. I didn't stop to think about that part of the skill. Maybe the learning part could be taken off, then, so Eagle Eye is needed to learn from other friendly Heroes?


Well, Learning has another mergeable learning part.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 18, 2019 12:17 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:43, 18 Aug 2019.

Add a new level of creatures

I think game would be better with a new set of creatures like this:

- Reduce the power of special dragons
 . Rust Dragons have their health reduced to 300 and cost only 5000G and 3S;
 . Faerie Dragons get 300 HP but 24/24 of Attack/Defense and more Power;
 . Both Crystal and Azure Dragons have their HP halved and prices reduced;

- All towns get a second upgrade to the level seven buildings that costs twice the price of the first. Second upgraded creatures would be superior to Rust Dragons, comparable to Crystal and Faerie and slightly inferior to Azure but more focused in special abilities then in Attack, Defense and Health. Their cost would be the double of the upgraded level seven.

Just to give an example

Castle: Serafins - 400 HP, 40 A/D, 60D, resurrects 3 times, resurrection power grows from 100HP to 150HP. Costs 10.000 Gold and 6 Gems.


Reducing the power of special dragons will no doubt turn events and lone heroes battles easier but timed events may increase the power of AI heroes guarding towns without ever been transposed to human player while super dragons can only be added once to a Stand Still hero and will increase player's power when he takes them, if coming from dwellings.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2019 02:00 PM

But why? This sound like an arbitrary alteration of the original game. For the sake of what? I can't see the benefit for gameplay.

Those special dragons are situational anyway, for special scenarios.
Where are you supposed to find the gold needed for those 3rd lvl7 upgrades?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 18, 2019 02:34 PM

gatecrasher said:
Where are you supposed to find the gold needed for those 3rd lvl7 upgrades?

That's the thing, they will be too expensive to build them everywhere and you won't be able to hire those creatures in large quantities unless you save every coin for that cause there won't be much left to plunder so late in the game. So it adds another layer to late game: which towns to build and witch new creatures to hire?
Things get more interesting if this suggestion is added to one of my previous: to have a button in the RGM interface that adds a daily event giving money and resources to AI.
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Gravedigger
Gravedigger


Hired Hero
posted August 20, 2019 11:51 AM
Edited by Gravedigger at 11:53, 20 Aug 2019.

Being honest i started playing HotA about month ago. Most of my time I'm playing single player vs 200% AI on custom maps, From that perspective HotA is 7/10

1. I don't really like gunpowder idea
2. Cove city ... it does not suit H3 at all for me
3. Artifacts - they nerfed resurrect skill of cloak of undead king, due to balance and they added new artifact HORN which takes 1 slot and resurrect 50% of killed units which joins you directly in battle... yeah there is more but let's go on
4. I can't loose the feeling that Hota will become flat field of creatures ... What i mean sooner or later every creature will become nerfed or buffed to the same level. Where is the point of that?
Online playing? I believe true balance can be obtained only when both players will get symmetrical map with same city to play, guards, artifacts, and so on. Otherwise there is always factor of road layouts, units, resources, heroes, and so on... Would be fun - probably no, but would be equal to both players.
5. Someone said about 3rd upgrade of 7th units --- I would go deeper, i would like to see some monstrous creatures, for example Mansion with 1 single creature 5x5 hexes, like a boss in MMORPG extremely powerful, hard to kill, just like endgame boss.
3rd upgrade of Angel seems fine to me - but it has to be done without buffing a speed of units. I would also like to see more slow creatures instead of lighting speed angels. This game need changes into more tactical fight since AI is just AI, flying from start position directly to enemy does not help.  

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted August 20, 2019 07:12 PM

Gravedigger said:
Being honest i started playing HotA about month ago. Most of my time I'm playing single player vs 200% AI on custom maps, From that perspective HotA is 7/10

1. I don't really like gunpowder idea
2. Cove city ... it does not suit H3 at all for me
3. Artifacts - they nerfed resurrect skill of cloak of undead king, due to balance and they added new artifact HORN which takes 1 slot and resurrect 50% of killed units which joins you directly in battle... yeah there is more but let's go on
4. I can't loose the feeling that Hota will become flat field of creatures ... What i mean sooner or later every creature will become nerfed or buffed to the same level. Where is the point of that?
Online playing? I believe true balance can be obtained only when both players will get symmetrical map with same city to play, guards, artifacts, and so on. Otherwise there is always factor of road layouts, units, resources, heroes, and so on... Would be fun - probably no, but would be equal to both players.



1/2 You're free to like and not like whatever you want, we all have our own ideas of what the perfect heroes 3 should look like. However, from the lore perspective, both gunpowder and pirates (Regna) are part of the homm universe.

3. Note that the Horn of the Abyss artifact is treated just like Armageddon's blade - you're unable to get neither of them, unless the map maker especially makes it possible. In random maps for example, both artifacts are banned. They're both designed to be part of the campaing, and they're made OP so players could have unique experiences while playing with them.

4.Where do you base this assumption?

(Non-cove) Creature balance has not been altered since the launch of 1.3 version (that was about 5 years ago btw) - and even there the flat stats were not changed, and only some Conflux creatures
were made to cost more gold compared to SOD prices. Some creatures may have learned new tricks along the way (such as harpies and shooters in general) and some may have become better or worse than they originally were, as new things have been added. But generally speaking, I don't see anything that would point them trying to make creatures perfectly balanced - whatever that's supposed to mean.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 20, 2019 08:54 PM

Gravedigger said:
1 single creature 5x5 hexes,
This works in the later games because they used a square grid instead of hexagonal.

I don't think it would work in HotA because it uses a hex grid. So a 5x5 hex creature would take a ridiculous amount of space on the game board and would just really not be feasible.
____________
"Everyone is a schlong sucker." - Kayna
"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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Spectra
Spectra

Tavern Dweller
posted August 27, 2019 04:48 AM
Edited by Spectra at 06:18, 27 Aug 2019.

I've read the previous recent suggestions for First Aid secondary skill and got a few ideas. Firstly, I have some considerations:

1. Restoring even 100 HP with Expert First Aid is not enough for most 7th level creatures stack. Consuming a secondary skill for that isn't worth. Considering that 100 is just a very rare best case, this clearly is bad.

2. Most or all of the 1st and 2nd level creature have an HP so low that they could be considered just as being either dead or alive during a battle, having few meaning for being injured or hurt. Healing the top-level creature of a stack of pixies is virtually meaningless.

3. Even without the First Aid secondary skill, the first aid tent should be far more useful to be worth buying it for your hero. Currently, the tent is almost useless.

4. The First Aid skill would be far much more useful if it could also cast Resurrection or Animate Dead.

5. Resurrection and Animate Dead uses a (P + (power x 50)) formula, where P is 40/40/80/160 for Resurrection and 30/30/60/160 for Animate Dead. For Cure, it is (P + (power x 5)), where P is 10/10/20/30, but Cure also removes negative effects.

6. Having just 75 points makes the first aid tent an easy target. However, most people rarely targets it because it is almost useless anyway and there are more interesting targets most of times. But, this would not be the case anymore if it was much more useful.

So, I propose the following:

- No First Aid skill: First Aid Tent casts Basic Cure in a random injured ally unit. The hero has no control of its behaviour. The first aid tent itself has just 75 points of HP.

Note that Basic Cure removes negative effects in addition of healing. This surely makes having a first aid tent very worth even if the hero has no First Aid skill.

- Basic First Aid skill: Hero gains control of the first aid tent. The first aid tent now casts Advanced Cure. The first aid tent itself has 200 points of HP.

- Advanced First Aid skill: The first aid tent casts Advanced Cure AND Advanced Resurrection (or Animate Dead) on the unit choosen by the hero. The first aid tent itself has 450 points of HP.

- Expert First Aid skill: The first aid tent casts Expert Cure (which is a mass spell) AND allows the hero to use Expert Resurrection (or Animate Dead) in any of its friendly units, including golems, gargoyles, elementals, war machines and even on the tent itself. The first aid tent itself has 700 points of HP. If the first aid tent is destroyed, it resurrects itself in the next turn, coming back with 1 HP (but having to wait still another turn for being able to resume its business). If the battle ends and the hero having the tent is victorious, he/she will keep it even if the battle ended with it being destroyed (i.e. it resurrects itself after the battle and won't be lost, like the catapult does).

With those modifications, both the First Aid skill surely become a very worth and powerful game changer badass skill. And even having the tent without the skill would be much more worth. Also, although this proposal is complex (it is not just redefining a few numbers), it should still be somewhat simple to implement because it mostly reuses already existing abilities already built-in in the game.

I also suggest modifying Cure, Resurrection and Animate Dead formulas, because using the magic school level to vary a constant small factor instead of the multiplier of the power (like many other spells does) doesn't seems to be right for me. Also, lacking a spell to resurrect golems, gargoyles, elementals and war machines don't seem to be right for me either because fixing up a broken machine or glueing up some broken parts of a statue should be something much more plausible than bringing the dead back to life.
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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted August 27, 2019 10:10 AM
Edited by RerryR at 10:13, 27 Aug 2019.

Cure and resurrect both on First Aid tent seems rather strong.
I would also propose a resurrection ability but not as a spell. It should work the following:
Additionaly to the normal heal the first aid tent can heal/resurrect 3%/6%/10% of total army hp in combat. After that, amount of heal is exhausted and no more dead troops can be resurrected. The extra heal is divided in several charges. After depletion, the first aid tent works as it does now. This would prevent endless blind/resurrect abuse as it currently can be done on WoG (or hota with spell) and would make sense because a first aid tent also has limited supplies.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2019 10:25 AM
Edited by gatecrasher at 16:29, 27 Aug 2019.

Some thoughts about Might/Magic balance:

-Maybe heroes of Magic classes should be able to cast twice in the first/second or third round of a battle. Could be added to Sorcery or Mysticism instead. Too strong?

-Or at least spell specialists (except probably for the likes of Eovacius, Solmyr, Ciele, Aislinn,..) should be able to extra-cast their spell for one time or to cast their spell at lower cost.

-The bonus for spell specialists should be calculated differently / displayed properly instead of this "increased effect, based on their level compared to the level of the target unit" nonsense.


Some thoughts for beefing up First Aid:

- When a hero has got the First Aid skill the tent could respawn after the battle the way the Catapult does such that you do not have to rebuy.

- Should generate a higher amount of HP. If the HP healed is higher than the damage taken by the creature, the rest of the HP should be resurrected.

- Or instead of simply healing, the tent should cast Cure.

- Maybe the heal/cure effect should be applied to an area like Fire Ball

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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Known Hero
posted August 27, 2019 11:42 AM

Very nice suggestion, Spectra. Assuming some important flux units can't be brought back to life, First Aid as you proposed will find its place among crucial secondary skills,even in multiplayer.
By the way i'd like to see it functioning just like catapult,no coming back with 1 hp thing.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 27, 2019 01:29 PM

Something Iíve suggested before with regards to First Aid is to also let it have a post-battle resurrection effect for the victor of the battle. Depending on the skill, it will resurrect a certain amount of fallen units to each stack that has been damaged at the post-battle screen.
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mihaid
mihaid

Tavern Dweller
posted August 28, 2019 12:31 PM

gatecrasher said:

-Maybe heroes of Magic classes should be able to cast twice in the first/second or third round of a battle. Could be added to Sorcery or Mysticism instead. Too strong?


Casting expert Berserk twice... imagine the carnage.

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