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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 01:52 AM |
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Ghost said:
purerogue said:
Your nose ends where my fist begins.
HANDICAPPED  Are you seen his an adult face..
I truly am at a lost for comprehension..
It's a saying.. do you "get" it?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 11, 2022 02:03 AM |
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purerogue said:
Ghost said:
purerogue said:
Your nose ends where my fist begins.
HANDICAPPED Are you seen his an adult face..
I truly am at a lost for comprehension..
It's a saying.. do you "get" it?
Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 02:14 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 02:18, 11 Mar 2022.
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This situation is actually one of those that no one could predict. So this war will have no winners. Mind that Europe and the US will live their usual life, and Russian oil and gas are double edged weapon. Someone needs to sell, someone needs to buy. Then, Russia plans to create their own processors, planes, etc. But I don't believe this will ever happen because if Russia really was capable to go independent, it would be independent before this conflict already. Now people in Russia are so joyful just because it's 2 weeks of sanctions, think what they would feel after 20 years of them. I hope this will never happen. No one country can survive in this world alone. Look at China. They trade with the world, their cities are piece of art. And Russia spent all monies upgrading their military which probably will fail even in this small conflict.
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titanfall2020
Known Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 07:09 AM |
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AlexSpl said:
Look at China. They trade with the world, their cities are piece of art. And Russia spent all monies upgrading their military which probably will fail even in this small conflict.
Lol, take your own advice and look at China. You missed the olympics where makeshift stadiums were built right beside dilapidated industrial buildings.
Its funny when people point to genocidal dictatorships believing they are enlightened
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 11, 2022 04:06 PM |
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Pol said:
And there some page about Donbas 2014
I read it, and it says what we already know, there is a war in Donbass.
The movie I linked says same thing, it does NOT claim ONLY Ukrainians are perpetrating war crimes, but it also observes an unbalanced conflict, in terms of army, military weapons and political will.
And when I say political will, if you read attentively the Porochenko (public speech 2014) quote I posted, and unless someone debunks it as being part of different context - which none here or anywhere else could do, it goes in a very different direction than what medias daily unleashed.
Porochenko claims a political will to exterminate the population in Donbass, men, women, elders and children. And sorry to say, that validates the so called "Russian propaganda", about Donbass people being threatened and discriminated. The movie starts with this speech, hence the link to genocide concept.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 04:24 PM |
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Umm - WHAT?
You quoted this:
Quote:
"We will have work, they will not. We will have pensions, they will not. We will have benefits for pensions and for children, they will not. Our children will go to school, their children will stay in the cellars. Because they don't know how to do anything. And that's how, precisely how we'll win this war !"
I don't know what YOU read into this, but for me it just says that "they" (whoever "they" are, probably the enemies of the Ukraine, the pro-Russian separatists) have no clue about anything and therefore they won't get anywhere, which is why they will lose the war.
Makes sense.
How this is claiming "a political will to exterminate the population in Donbass, men, women, elders and children" is completely beyond me, especially considering that this was obviously said AFTER the war had already begun - in the Ukraine, mind you. Not in Russia.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 04:35 PM |
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Are you drunk? Exterminate the population of Donbas? You sure he said that? Are you so easy to be manipulated?
You are sharing a movie that is composed of different propaganda ideas and pretending this is a quality documentary? You're using words taken out of context and want somebody to debunk? Debunk what? It's not even clear what the guy means. Go ahead and find the source or ask that french lady to give the source video. Responsible journalists should give the source no problem, so go ask and check.
Also, take a look at his inauguration speech for example?
https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/may-25-presidential-election/english-language-translation-of-poroshenkos-inaugural-address-on-june-7-351071.html
Here are some quotes:
"I do not want war, I am not seeking revenge, even though I can see before my eyes the great sacrifices made by the Ukrainian people. I am seeking peace and will achieve Ukraine's unity. This is why I am starting my work by proposing a peace plan."
"Living freely means being able to freely communicate in your native language and to be guided by the 10th article of the constitution which defines Ukrainian as the only state language and guarantees the unhindered development of Russian and all the other languages."
So you think the same person would say that we need to exterminate the population of Donbas?
----
On a different topic, so do you have an answer to my question? Is it YES or NO or still I DON'T KNOW? I'm waiting for an answer.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 11, 2022 04:48 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
for me it just says that "they" (whoever "they" are, probably the enemies of the Ukraine, the pro-Russian separatists) have no clue about anything and therefore they won't get anywhere, which is why they will lose the war.
Makes sense.
Children will stay in a cellar and elders being prohibited of pensions, is about "the enemy of Ukraine", yeah. Well, yes, you said it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 11, 2022 05:00 PM |
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ihor said:
On a different topic, so do you have an answer to my question? Is it YES or NO or still I DON'T KNOW? I'm waiting for an answer.
The last question I see from you is "So, what do you think, now? Do you still have no idea or you need more evidence? "
That is merely vague, seeing that most links you gave come from Ukraine, whose journalists lied a lot since the conflict started. 13 guards on island killed, nuclear plant bombed, jewish monument destroyed, a lot of "facts" supposed to lead to international uproar but totally made up.
And no, I am not drunk, that's a jerk-like attempt to shut the other. I just don't buy the bad/good guys binary slave attitude, conflicts of this caliber have always multiple and complex causes.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 05:02 PM |
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Didn't you think that he meant for example, that the life on the occupied territories under Russian separatists isn't great? Children would stay in cellar = afraid of Russian separatists? No pensions = Russians wouldn't pay pensions (btw Ukraine paid pensions for all those years to those on the occupied territories if they come to the controlled territories).
It's just one of the options, but who knows what he meant. Where's the source? Why are you using piece of video taken out of context as some evidence? Why not presenting entire video?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 05:05 PM |
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 05:11 PM |
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Man, there are posts, in social media, posts by Russians, they were bragging, there are hundreds of those posts. Hundreds. There are pictures, videos, also by Russians, hundreds. The only thing Ukrainians did is compiled that stuff into a giant database of facts (yeah, with sources, screenshots, etc, not like your video) and everybody who wants can check. Looks like you don't want to check. So I don't see any point in further discussion. You have your opinion, which can't be changed, live with it.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 05:19 PM |
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Edited by ihor at 17:20, 11 Mar 2022.
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@AlexSpl
I was reading the news today and wasn't sure what happened with some airstrikes on Belarus territory, possibly by Russian jets to provoke Belarus to officially enter the war on the Russian side. What do you think about that? Does Belarus want to fight against Ukrainians?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 05:38 PM |
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Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:
for me it just says that "they" (whoever "they" are, probably the enemies of the Ukraine, the pro-Russian separatists) have no clue about anything and therefore they won't get anywhere, which is why they will lose the war.
Makes sense.
Children will stay in a cellar and elders being prohibited of pensions, is about "the enemy of Ukraine", yeah. Well, yes, you said it.
He doesn't say that. He says LITERALLY that these things will happen Because they don't know how to do anything.
THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO ANYTHING. Not, we will prohibit them anything. You can't just interpret something into a text that isn't there.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 06:04 PM |
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In Belarus there is no reliable media anymore, so I read both Russian and Ukrainian sources. The officials say it's a fake.
No one here from those who I know wants to go to war, of course. People are scared, prices skyrocketed, but there's no panic yet.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 06:12 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 18:12, 11 Mar 2022.
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Here is the most trusted (in my opinion) Belarusian source of information, though it's not the famous and free tut.by - https://www.onliner.by/
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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted March 11, 2022 06:46 PM |
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Salamandre said:
I read it, and it says what we already know, there is a war in Donbass.
The movie I linked says same thing, it does NOT claim ONLY Ukrainians are perpetrating war crimes, but it also observes an unbalanced conflict, in terms of army, military weapons and political will.
And when I say political will, if you read attentively the Porochenko (public speech 2014) quote I posted, and unless someone debunks it as being part of different context - which none here or anywhere else could do, it goes in a very different direction than what medias daily unleashed.
Porochenko claims a political will to exterminate
It says that there is war in Donbass and also why, because Donbas was invaded by russian paramilitary forces, exKGB in 2014. Luhanks is just the same. So you see who is the causator.
As of Poroshenko, please never ever get things out of context. You can then easily understood them wrong, like in this case. (Outlined by others, so not going into this again.)
Taking things out of context, mixing facts and fabulation, false assumptions, that is propaganda. And what you said about Porochenko is straight taken from RT. Source of all lies itself.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 08:56 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 21:06, 11 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
Taking things out of context, mixing facts and fabulation, false assumptions, that is propaganda.
Propaganda from both sides. Both Russian and Ukrainian media cannot be trusted. The truth, as we know, is out there somewhere in between. People trust more likely what they personally want to believe in. But one thing stays certain, this situation is a big miscalculation, I still cannot believe this happened.
As for banning Instagram, Facebook and so on. I don't use them, so can't really say if others are "gravely concerned" about this. But I wouldn't be happy if they ban Steam, for example.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 09:11 PM |
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As usual, the important thing is not what anyone is saying, but what anyone is DOING. And last time I checked Russia launched a full-scale military attack on the second-largest European country.
If it was about "the Russian population in the Donbas" - which would already be a big stretch, considering that there already is a war on for 8 years - and IF Russia would have used all other channels - UN and so on, to get resolutions against Ukraine and whatnot - the maximum of what might have been considered an "appropriate" raction would have been to deploy Russian military into the Donbas and possibly advance to secure a security zone of 20 km around the Donbas border - that is, West of the Donbas.
This would have been a military escalation, albeit with a "defensible" justification.
All-out war against the Ukraine, though? Unjustifiable.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2022 09:14 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 21:14, 11 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
If it was about "the Russian population in the Donbas" - which would already be a big stretch, considering that there already is a war on for 8 years - and IF Russia would have used all other channels - UN and so on, to get resolutions against Ukraine and whatnot - the maximum of what might have been considered an "appropriate" raction would have been to deploy Russian military into the Donbas and possibly advance to secure a security zone of 20 km around the Donbas border - that is, West of the Donbas.
Wise words. I'd rather send there the international peacekeeping forces though.
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This thread is pages long: 
