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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 09:31 PM |
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And it was an excellent idea. Except that fact that people believe in brute force more willingly than to authorities. The UN ought to have its own military to be real power. Now it's just kinda a forum, like this.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 09:50 PM |
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 10:10 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
2Kipshasz: The idea to eliminate fear and fully enjoy your inALIENable rights.
Like, "you will own nothing and be happy"?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 10:20 PM |
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To own nothing is better than to do not own nothing  Actually, much pain caused by greed. And greed can be a lethal weapon. When most people need basic comfort, someone needs luxury. Name at least one ruler who wasn't greedy? Mean that greed for power counts.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted February 28, 2022 10:25 PM |
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 10:26 PM |
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Great, another one who thinks things appear from the sky..
Move to China 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2022 10:29 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 22:30, 28 Feb 2022.
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Provide first basic comfort for all people and then go greedy. No one will be against.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 01, 2022 01:39 AM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 08:22 AM |
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Look, that's complete hogwash. Since when is the fact that there are extreme left or right wing groups active in any country a reason to declare war on them? I mean, take ANY country.
And then - how can SLAVS be Nazis? They would have to embrace that they are subhumans.
So this is all just smoke and mirrors.
Do they have a couple of problems with regard to human rights and so on in the Ukraine? Sure. And Russia hasn't? Or other countries, say, Belarus?
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 09:36 AM |
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Edited by orzie at 10:00, 01 Mar 2022.
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JollyJoker said:
And then - how can SLAVS be Nazis? They would have to embrace that they are subhumans.?
The deep irony is that Slavic neo-nazi groups selectively adapted these principles, so in their eyes being a Slav is enough (and for most - exclusive) to qualify for the "master race". How convenient. At the same time, nationalist movements propagate supremacy of a Slavic nation of choice, which, as you can understand, is not the same.
In Russian official media, including Putin's statements it is conveniently mixed over so "nationalist", "nazist" and "fascist" are the same word. "Nazist" is used the most, because war against nazis can be always "justified".
Regarding Ukraine, there are confirmed "volunteer" army units composed of Ukrainian nationalists, which are now used by Putin as excuse for the said "denazification" whatever that means. Basically, in Russian propaganda, all Ukrainian forces who still resist are "nazis", regardless if they ever identified as nazis, or nationalists, or simply people who are defending their homes.
The even deeper irony is that the army units of Donetsk/Lugansk entities also include nationalist units, this time employing Russian nationalists. Some of these people may or may not have Russian passports. This is of course swept under the rug, as well as the fact that there are a lot of other people with radical ideologies of many sorts.
The key point is that Ukraine has its Right Sector which was generously given screen time during the 2014 conflict.
At the same time, in Russia itself open radicals have been exterminated by the federal security service for the last 20 years. These people are either dead, in jail, abroad (including participation in the current conflict on both sides) or in hiding.
Of course, when you visit some pro-Russian or pro-Ukrainian militarist communities, you can see a different picture which is, er, more complex.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 10:13 AM |
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orzie said:
JollyJoker said:
And then - how can SLAVS be Nazis? They would have to embrace that they are subhumans.?
The deep irony is that Slavic neo-nazi groups selectively adapted these principles, so in their eyes being a Slav is enough (and for most - exclusive) to qualify for the "master race".
I meant it ironically (because there is no limit to human stupidity, Slavic, Aryan or otherwise), but it doesn't change anything about the selectiveness of the aggressive finger-pointing.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 11:14 AM |
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Things are gonna get worse before they get better. Russians just hit the center of Kharkiv with a missile, the second biggest city in Ukraine.
I am glad to see that the world is very united against Putin and his insane aggression. Sanctions are working actually better than I thought. One Ruble is a measly 0,01 dollars now. Targeting the funds of Putin and his oligarch buddies also puts on pressure. Heck even Switzerland, the country synonymous with neutrality was forced to go "nope, we are not neutral anymore". Amazing.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 12:33 PM |
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How to make world hate you in less than a week.
"No, Russia can't be understood
With mind or held to common standard:
Her stature is unique for good -
Just faith in her is all we're granted."
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 01:15 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 13:17, 01 Mar 2022.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 01, 2022 02:12 PM |
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Blizzardperson
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 02, 2022 01:23 PM |
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@Sal
It's a standard pre-emptive invasion, in the anticipation of Ukraine possibly, eventually either being in NATO or being more and more quasi-NATO. The active territorial disputes are supposed to mean Ukraine can't join, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have or won't happen. So, act now or be unable to act later. That's the idea.
It's not looking like it will turn out to be anything other than 1) a defeat or 2) a pyrrhic victory, but I guess Putin wanted to try even though he already knew Europe & N. America would react the way that they are reacting. A stupidly easy explanation could be the generation he and his staff are a part of it. In his head and a lot of other people's heads, Ukraine is Russia and Russia is Ukraine.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 02, 2022 02:18 PM |
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A more realistic explanation would be that in his mind, NATO placing nuclear warhead as close as Ukraine is unacceptable, as it was in 1962 when the reversed situation occurred in Cuba, and we know how Kennedy reacted. Exactly as Putin today, sending army and threatening of nuclear war, right?
Ukraine joining NATO will not happen. Politicians should start discuss other options, as maintaining Ukraine as a demilitarized buffer zone between NATO and Russia, with Russia recognizing its borders within such conditions. Sanctions also can help, but common sensed sanctions, not a fascist position. What we assist today is an ongoing fatwa on Russian artists and overall representative personalities abroad, being fired, cancelled and harassed on the simple reason of being Russian.
Such measures will only tighten Russians with an unbreakable bond.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2022 03:39 PM |
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After your last post it was clear that you'd come up with nonsense.
1) Ukraine couldn't and wouldn't have joined NATO - that wasn't on the plate. The whole nonsense with "nuclear weapons in the Ukraine" is nonsensical.
What isn't nonsensical is the fact that after this Russian aggression NATO has the agreed right to move their forces to every NATO country they desire.
2) There is no "fatwa" - what we see is instead some kind of choice for Russian artists: "Condemn the war, then all is fine - don't condemn it, go home."
That's no fatwa. That's FAIR. I mean, maybe you don't get it, but there's a war on and when it's finsihed the 2nd biggest European country will be rubble.
Russia started a war of aggression which it prepared for months. They lied about it the whole time, which means you cannot believe a word of them - that's the basic and simple truth. A treaty isn't worth anything.
And what is the readying of nuclear weapons? The threat of a big terror attack - that's what it is.
There is no excuse for this.
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Blizzardperson
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 02, 2022 03:56 PM |
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I don't really get the nuke argument unless I'm missing something obvious. Poland or Lithuania are just slightly further away (Lithuania closer to some Russian cities) and nobody uses 1960s warheads anymore. If Russia decided to nuke D.C. today it would be able to do it in under an hour and nobody could stop it from happening.
It's just something to say because it sounds good. It's really just a pre-emptive invasion to try to get the jump on NATO over Europe's most contested and divided country. Putin has openly lamented the loss of influence and territory post-USSR. It's not a secret.
@JJ: Never say never, but even if they never became NATO they could squeak around the edges, get various arrangements, equipment, favors, etc. Stuff that would make Russia mad, and already has. It doesn't justify an invasion, but it does explain it. People always have motives.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2022 05:00 PM |
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Nah, it doesn't even explain it.
Ukraine was better prepared for a war than in 2014 - but if there WAS any "bad" intentions by the West, don't you think they would have supplied Ukraine with more "equipment" than they could actually bring to bear? Modern anti-air stuff, anti-tank weapons and so on?
Look at Finland. With everything that's happening they might like NATO membership - so would the Russians preventively attack Finland as well to prevent them applying by installing some puppet regime?
In short, Russias behavior doesn't make sense. They are basically prodding with a big stick unto a nest of sleeping hornets because they fear the hornets might wake up one of these days?
They would be better off by putting diplomatic pressure onto Europe to accept the fait accompli of the Crimea, to negotiate something for the Luhansk and Donbass regions and to try and get treaties that secure Ukraine's neutral status.
What they actually did, is totally clumsy - not even CHINA is happy.
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This thread is pages long: 
