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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: HOMM3 Tactics
Thread: HOMM3 Tactics This thread is 69 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 40 50 60 69 · «PREV / NEXT»
DoddTheSlayer
DoddTheSlayer


Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
posted October 05, 2004 02:20 PM

That would explain why castle sitting is considered a lame tactic.
Because it is exploiting a bug.  Im running out of ideas here  Hey Frank and co. keep them coming.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 05, 2004 04:50 PM

First, castle sitting is not exploiting a bug. Second, it's a sure way to lose the game.

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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 06, 2004 01:17 AM

Is that why the top dudes in ToH use that tactic?

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 06, 2004 01:20 AM

Enlighten me then, what's so good in that? You sit in your town, I sit in mine and keep pressing end turn?
What prevents me from taking over the map while you are waiting my attack? Am I missing something here?

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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 06, 2004 01:24 AM

Don't get me wrong; I don't approve of the tactic, and never even used it, but it does seem to work for them, no?
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Lancelot
Lancelot


Hired Hero
posted October 06, 2004 11:45 AM

Thx all for fixing my mistakes
btw, armorer skill and specialisation, and air shield - YES, increases the damage of turrets. That's why I prefer to take a stack of wyverns and angels before atacking enemy castle playing Tazar.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 06, 2004 03:19 PM

Quote:
Don't get me wrong; I don't approve of the tactic, and never even used it, but it does seem to work for them, no?


I just can't see why it would work for them. Does it? If so how and why? What do you call townsitting anyways?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 06, 2004 08:42 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong; I don't approve of the tactic, and never even used it, but it does seem to work for them, no?


I just can't see why it would work for them. Does it? If so how and why? What do you call townsitting anyways?


Townsitting means, when u see your opponent coming into your area, u do NOT face him on the normal battlefield, but go back in your town and sit there, waiting for him to attack you IN your town.
Try to destroy his catapult in the first round(s), so when he hasīnt "earthquake" or cyclops and the catapult didnīt hit the wall for a whole, you normaly have NO chance to win, expect your army is full of flyers..
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 06, 2004 09:58 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 6 Oct 2004

I understand, but why would your opponent attack you in your town then (without the necessary spells I mean)? What about taking over the map, collecting all artifacts and producing 3 times as much creatures (since he can keep only 1 town that way)?

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frank
frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted October 07, 2004 08:17 AM

Quote:
so sometimes it is possible for arrow towers to do over 500 damage.

well, i guess that's not a lot considering the ballista is capable of doing thousands of damage...


The most amazing damage though comes from Master Gremlins if you ask me.  Try this: 100 master gremlins with 6 individual master genies.  If you are lucky in the spell order you can produce over 2500 damage

Hint: all spells that increase your defense have to come before frenzy, like stone skin and prayer.   Add to that precision, bless, bloodlust...

Week 2 Jenova level 5 can kill throng mighty gorgons with a lasting long enough mass slow !


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justdoing
justdoing


Adventuring Hero
#2
posted October 07, 2004 10:02 AM

Quote:
Hint: all spells that increase your defense have to come before frenzy, like stone skin and prayer.   Add to that precision, bless, bloodlust...


hmmm......

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tanjun
tanjun


Hired Hero
Heroes 3 noob
posted October 07, 2004 04:21 PM

Normally, I don't use master gremlins as they die easily. They are normally the targets of AI and hence when I fight with my opponents in the battlefield, most of my casualties are master gremlins and therefore it is difficult for me to have master gremlins. Besides, 100 master gremlins cannot possibly produce 2500 damage. the maximum damage of master gremlins is only 3-5 damage. Thus, 100 master gramlins mean that the damage that is inflicted by them is 500 damage. Spells cannot possibly increase the damage by 4 times. Besides, 100 master gremlins cannot possibly kill throngs of mighty gorgons. If they are slowed, they will move at a speed of 3. That means that they will only need 4 turns to reach your master gremlins. In addition to that, there is a range penalty for ranged attackers. Therefore, during the first turn that u shoot mighty gorgons, the damage is reduced to half.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 07, 2004 04:39 PM

Dear Tanjun,

after i read your post, i have to say, u should learn a bit more about damage calculation.
Sure the gremlins have a damage range of 3-5, but that DOESNīT mean they only can do a max. of 5 damage points per gremlin. If this would be true, an angel would NOT be able to do MORE damage than 50.
The most important fact about damage calculation is the difference between "attack skill of attacker" and "defense skill of defender". The higher this difference is, the higher the damage.

So when u can raise the attack skill of a gremlin to 25 (attack skill of the hero, + things like frenzy...), the gremlins will do higher damage against other units.

The (nearly) exact explanation about damage calculation is mentioned in this thread: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=11801

Hope this helps..
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frank
frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted October 07, 2004 10:29 PM
Edited By: frank on 7 Oct 2004

to Tanjun:

You arent obliged to shoot until your Master Gremlins deals full damage.  I shield my Master Gremlins until they do in hard fights.  Please test before saying things like '' cannot possibly''.   Master Gremlins dont die easy.  The way I use them they nearly dont die at all.

As frequent readers of this topic know, I'm inspired by turns in my ACTUAL games.  This one was yesterday against an Emperor. Jarbakas, my main hero, 10 attack & expert archery skill, did slay during the same turn 140 dendroid guards and then 160 pit fiends and finally 122 Mighty Gorgons, en route to my opponent's castle.   All I had was 136 master gremlins, 8 naga queens (hardly ever used in any of the fights) and 5 groups of master genies.  When I saw 20 dendroids fall on one shot I was curious of the damaged I had done and it read 2576.

If you dont test it for you own thirst of knowledge I guess you are just going to have to take my word for it...  or my opponent's !  

PS  I dont blame you for not testing I hardly ever test anything myself.  That would be angelito, csarmi, xarfax, lancelot, etc.. field of expertise.  I read with great interest their posts & I appreciate their dedication for bringing a new light on so many aspects of HOMM3.  Undoubtedly one of the richess game ever.

 

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 07, 2004 11:05 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 2 Apr 2005

Your 2576 damage must have been a lucky one (actually fortune is quite a good spell on the long run!). That also implies that you can kill about 25 dendroid guards per shot on average and thus swarm of dendroid guards don't seem senseless (you can run out of shots though), maybe even an unlimited number if you have nice baits (your master genies) to keep your cart intact.

To anyone who does not understand what I mean by "baits".

AI has a very simple target following strategy. He shall gor for the closest creature unless there is a ranged opponent within two turns reach. Slowed guards move 2, so with 2-3 genies you can pull them back and forth forever. If you have mass sorrow, CAST IT! though.

I have a strong feeling that war machines are considered as shooters, or are at least very high on the AI's preference list (they do not attack back after all and that's a good point).

Some words of AI attacking preference (that can save your life in harder fights!).

Only thumb rules, the exact values could be found with patience.

He shall try to do the biggest damage while doing the biggest number of "kills".

He shall try to take as less damage as possible from retal.

I think that he puts the two together and uses some combination of it to decide what to do (something like substracting the second damage from the first).
I also believe that the second part (how much damage does he take) plays a bigger role here.

AI tries to maximize his HP at anytime while minimizing yours PER action (that's the thing determining what spells he shall cast, that's why you see so many elemental summons).

He sees one move in advance. That means several things.

First, he shall try to block shooters if possible (he knows that the shooter will get a free hit on him otherwise. (I am afraid this is not completely true, maybe shooter block is just burnt deep into his strategy)

Second, if he has a small stack doing negligible damage, he shall use it for soaking up retaliation (he knows what his next move will be).

Third: there is usually no cooperation amongst its units.

Another important fact is that he won't use wait if he can do a safe attack instantly.

That's why you have such an easy time occupying a red dragon dwelling if you have basic tactics: all you need is something easy for the dragons to attack and they will no outwait you.

Another good strategy against fast fliers:
If you really cannot defend your shooters from attack, make them a target! Place a small (preferable single) stack next to your shooters so that it'll be attacked instantly (high preferance: AI can block your shooter AND make a positive hp attack) instead of waiting for example.

Place a single centaur next to your grand elf stack for example. The Silver Pegasi has to choose what to do.

If they attack your elves, they'll do 70 damage, but the elves will retal for 60 killing 2 of their ranks.
If they attack your centaur next to the elves, they'll do 8 damage and lose no HP and they blocked your elves. Sounds like a fair deal for the AI. He does not consider your next moves at all (you'll be killing that silver pegasi stack with your main cent group and the elves will have full arrow at the other stacks (who were attracted to come over to your side by other well-placed single cent stacks), with mass slow/mass haste you can make them start next round too and that means a lot of dead groups and now defended elves.

This strategy can be used against level 7's even (any dragons for example), but remember: your candies (sacrificial stacks) should be well-sized (enough for the AI to attack them instead of your elves!).

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DoddTheSlayer
DoddTheSlayer


Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
posted October 08, 2004 12:44 AM

Are you talking about putting a two hex unit in front of elves againnst drags?
And could you do this putting a one hex unit by the side of the elves?
I am just thinking about the drags 2 hex attack
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom

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justdoing
justdoing


Adventuring Hero
#2
posted October 08, 2004 02:00 AM

Quote:
Third: there is usually no cooperation amongst its units.


oh i don't know about this one.

dw.

week 2 day 1

attacked middle town with 16 birds 3 beths and other cannon fodders, usually considered an easy fight turned into a nightmare.

conclusion, don't siege a town with arrow towers when you don't have attacking spells (for example, no magic arrow on cursed ground) and there are shooters in computer's army.


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tanjun
tanjun


Hired Hero
Heroes 3 noob
posted October 08, 2004 04:10 AM

Sorry to everyone for causing such a big fuss here. I have made a mistake in the damage of master gremlins which ranges from 1-2. Sorry about that. Perhaps I have to apologise for my crude language used in the above posts because my English is not very good. I just feel that 100 master gremlins inflicting 2500+ damage is not possible but since Frank have tested it out in practice and that has been proven, I have nothing to say.
Sigh, I lost to the AI when playing a medium map yesterday. I don't know how they have gotton 86 air elementals within month 1 week 4 and 53 gorgons and 68 basilisks within month 2 week 3. I think I still have to discover more strategies and practise more of my HOMM3 skills.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 08, 2004 09:40 AM

For example, you place your units like this:

1 centaur, elves, centaurs, dwarves, 1 centaur, 1 centaur

Now the 1 centaur on the top will be surely attacked without waiting (blocking your elves). All you have to do now is killing the stack blocking it by your main stack of centaurs (backwards in your turn) and your elves can shoot free. If you do not place sacrificial stack next to your elves, you risk your elf being attacked (the AI will attack and want to block your elves at the same time) or to be waited out by the silves pegasi.

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Lancelot
Lancelot


Hired Hero
posted October 08, 2004 11:38 AM

MIN AND MAX DAMAGE

Hmmm...
Reading Frank's post I remembered one feature that I've read a lot years ago. I think, in H3 help.
In H3 you can't do more than 300% and less than 30% of basic unit damage.
For example, if 100 peasants will atack azure dragon in afmy Tazar 30 lvl, they will inflict exectly 30 damage.

Please fix me if I'm wrong.
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