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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: HOMM3 Tactics
Thread: HOMM3 Tactics This thread is 69 pages long: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 20 30 40 50 60 69 · «PREV / NEXT»
RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted October 16, 2004 10:30 AM

A peculiar question just popped into my head

There is a castle hero with estates as specialty. Now I was thinking that on just about any map this would be good.

Here's my reasoning. On a poor map it would be good for the extra gold.

On a rich map it would still be good, because if you take experience from the chests, you will get residual gold from his special, thus making up some of the gold as well as already having extra gold to afford taking experience. Obviously taking experience from chests will result in a superior hero, due to a higher level. However I think that one should be able to afford taking at least half experience with this guy as main, because you already get 750 gold each turn at just level 10. Leveling up would happen at twice the normal rate, this means expert earth magic that much earlier, maybe expert logistics. You just get more abilities earlier and as the game progresses you make up for the gold you lost not taking gold earlier. So I think you would be slightly less rich, but would have a hero with stats much quicker.
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted October 16, 2004 03:12 PM
Edited By: Sir_Stiven on 16 Oct 2004

Quote:
On a rich map it would still be good, because if you take experience from the chests

stop right there.

Thats problem A

You dont take exp from chests unless exceptional cases, now go back and do homework

bobnabik:

At most maps you know when you can expect an attack or go for an attack, this gives you a hint on when you need spells on your main.

Scholar heroes you use as 2nd hero to earn exp and there is no particular need for main to go back to starting town (if mage guild built there) which can save you alot of time.

Personally i seldom build mage guild first days, and then i usually have main hero out on adventure. Main heroes magic book usually comes from 2nd town or startingtown if i gotta go opposite direction week 2 to get some more fighting action.

As for returning for spells, if you got TP then use that.

If not..set up a chain of heroes from main to mage guild town. put all troops on 2nd hero and attack a stack of slow creatures with main and retreat. Chain back the units to main or prefered place while you rehire main in mageguild town and he will have all spells. All in one day.

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted October 16, 2004 10:44 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Sounds a lot like "play it by ear".

I very rarely kill my main for this reason. Don't know why, I do it a lot with scholars and scouts to move arts. Never got in the habit of it I guess.

Even killing them off I find the problem with scholars is timing. Getting eveyone in the right place at the right time. They always make it there....eventually.


About the chest XP/Gold thing.

My problem is temptation. I usually take the gold, but sometimes I just can't help myself. I really like that new skill or upgrade in early game. It's like keeping my hand out of the cookie jar. I know it's bad for me, but I really really want that big fat juicy cookie inside.

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted October 16, 2004 11:14 PM

Of course I always take gold, but wouldn't you get enough of it back taking some experience with an estates specialist?
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frank
frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted October 17, 2004 03:13 AM

Estates heroes ruleZ  

If I play castle native rules with 130%/hard templates or higher diff/easier templates I will pick Haart all the time.  If you get expert estates as early as level 4 you already make 600 golds/turn.  With any estates hero for that matter I will try to get expert estates as soon as possible taking 1500 and 2000 value in gold chess for xps.  The reasoning is simple the extra 250 gold per turns over advanced estates for a regular estates hero will get you a 2000 gold chess in only 8 turns.  Taking xps out of chest after Haart has reached expert estates isnt worth it at all though even if Haart for some reason is your main hero.

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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted October 22, 2004 09:38 AM

Does anyone know how the archers are split when they face 3 angels?  Sometime against very large archer groups without tactic you need to position your angels at the right place to attack/block archers right on first move or else you'd lose 1.  Especially against sharpshooters or enchanters.  With pikemans I would position my angels in #2 #4 & #6 spots but if archers are in 4 groups, #1 #3 & #7 would serve me better...  I was wondering if there is a predictable number of archer group depending on the number you are up against (lots, horde, throng)?

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 22, 2004 01:10 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 22 Oct 2004

Yes and no. It seemed to be like this.

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=8741&pagenumber=2

Every tile on every single map has a well determined type (it never changes). The type contains two important informations for us:
1, Is there an upgrade amongst them? u=0,1
2, What is their confidence level c=0,1,2

The army you attack with determines another useful variable:

3, Your relative strength to theirs is divided into 6 different cetagories in percentages: 6:0-50, 5:50-67, 4:67-100, 3:100-150, 2:150-200, 1:200+; call this number the strength level of the monsters.

The number of stacks you will face is simply c+s.
This cannot be more than 7. After this, u will  be checked, and if true then one of the stacks you face will be upgraded (unless you face only one stack).

I am not sure what we mean on relative strength here (neither was Wub who created the wonderful post I am referring to), but I suppose it should contain the strength of you hero too (if that's the case, then you have to add up the strength of all your stacks and multiply it by the geometric average of (1+A/5) and (1+D/5) where A and D are your attack/defense skills repectively - g(a,b)=squareroot(ab)).

He tested it for goblins against goblins only (maybe creatures have their own agressiveness level too), but I think it should work regardless of the type of creatures.

Note that this whole testing (and the conclusions) have been done by Wub. All I did was posting it here slightly modified to make it easier to read.

I am not the one to say thanks to if it works and not the one to blame if it doesn't - I haven't tested it myself. My experiences tell me that it must be at least 90% true. The idea is surely true.

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Endor
Endor

Tavern Dweller
posted October 22, 2004 08:06 PM

WHAT A GREAT GAME THIS IS!

After reading this tread(took very long) I must say that this game is truly genius. Think about the amount of time invested in this game by TOH/WW players all over the world. After all, this is an old game and one would think that all aspects of the game are revealed and analyzed by now. This thread surely proves that it is not the case. It seems like new doors are opened very time things are discussed here. Thanks to all the players who has contributed to this thread and a special thanks to Frank for sharing some of his expertise( make no mistake, hes not revealing everything ), and also for starting this topic in the first place.

- Endor


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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted November 10, 2004 02:34 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: angelito on 1 Apr 2005

26) How to play Jebus tactic.

Jebus is played as a castle war.  Whichever the starting difficulty the strategy is the same.  Get angels first week.  At 200% its doable but you may have to not build citadel and castle.

The way to manage buying heroes:

If starting heroes were picked you already have one problem solved... you have a main hero.  If not then you keep the best possible main hero garrisonned until a better one shows off.  The first hero to be bought should always be the none native.  Chances are you will get one of the following: gargoyles, harpies, wolves, cerberi/imps, centaurs, pixies, serpent flies.  Thats what you want to give as a single unit to every scouts you buy.  If your scouts can move freely, ie no blocks in all directions, move your main hero last or not until you clearly see the best path to follow.  Slow scouts should move first picking free gold mostly but also piles or scrolls on the road.  Once the path is cleared, move your fastest scout (ex: log heroes, tyraxor, piquedram...) along the paths your cleared.  That can translate to buying one or two extra heroes.  When do you stop buying heroes?  As long as you have 2500, keep doing it!  Jebus is very rich and 8 heroes day 1 will ensure you will get if you span in every directions the most it offers as soon as possible.
Usually you will have 2 directions to follow via the road.  I'd send a magic arrow hero (if I can) one way and my army the other way.  The leading heroes towards the end of both paths should move every turns as strait foward down the paths as possible to get your 2nd and 3rd castle.  Main hero should always move after all your scouts have moved.

What to do first week with your main hero:

You dont have to do all the fights rather than the important ones.  Visit the things that will improve your stats: Marletto, Arenas, pandora boxes, visit a stable and fight hordes of zombies  As you uncover your territory focuss on discovering a cavalier dwelling or a portal of glory dwelling.  You can open them day 6 or 7 when your main hero and army are ready.  Day 7 should end with your main hero either in your main castle (buy stable day 1) or on an outside stable with a link from your main castle and towards all the money building you couldnt do first week.  Your goal is to acquire earth magics and logistics.  If those arent offered keep picking your starting secondary skills.  As soon as you get earth magic you don't take anything else until you reach expert earth with only exception being logistics.  Expert earth (slow) will allow you do to full banks and conservatories early week 2.  Your 2nd week army will likely be strong enough to allow taking Stores and Treasuries even horde griffins consevatories with scouts.  If you see horde medusas or throng dwarves + lots battle dwarfs you may need/want to use your main hero for xps purposes.

How to build your extra towns:

Tavern, town hall, market...  Then it depends on how wealthy you are.  If you are about done exploring and you dont see many ressources left its best stop building for the first week.  Ultimate goal is Angels with Castle.   If you dont have archers dwelling prebuilt then so be it, no archers week 1.  Best is to buy your magic guild day 1.  Try not to depend on trading too much at least not until you have 3 markets and an outside post.  Sometimes you dont have the choice though and trading all to get angels is ok.  You will get plenty ressources from stockpile week 2 to get your Archangels and possible high level magic tower.

With any luck with earth and logistics & if you plan well enough your main hero route you may be attacking your opponent in his castle day 13-14 with several AAs !  




EDIT by angelito

+QP given. For the fact this template is played very often nowadays (itīs not liked by all players though...@rychen), i give a reward for this description. Helps them newer players a lot. Thx for that

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 17, 2004 09:10 AM

First of all congratulations for this fine thread, Frank and keep up the good work.i've took my time this last few days to read it from the beggining and i found out a lot of new things. There are some things i didn't agree and maybe,if you'll aprouve it, i'll bring back for further discussion.As for your last post about the jebus template, i never saw this one yet.I didn't play on the zone yet but, played alot on hot seat and tcp/ip and i only encountered templates like 8xm8, 8xm12, redy or not, etc. What kind of templates do you play on the zone? How can you determine a template for a random map before starting the game(i can only see what template i'm playing when i press "i" for information after starting the game)? So you can choose what template you want to play in advance? Are theese custom templates(jebus, ring etc.)? Where do i get theese?
{i asked almost the same questions in another forum but didn't get an answer, hope i'm not bothering anyone}

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted November 17, 2004 11:29 AM

3do has its own file, where all the common templates are located. This file is part of another file, so u canīt find it in any directory. Itīs called "rmg.txt".
Some times ago, there was someone who extracted this rmg.txt file from the original one. That was the time, we all could see how the template work.
If the game starts to make a random map, it "takes a look" in your data directory to find this file, and if it isnīt there, it looks into the original one which is included in the bigger file.
So all u have to do, is to download a template (from the TOH site for example), save as "rmg.txt" in your data directory and then u can make a map based on that template.
The most played templates as far as i know are:
Jebus, Blockbuster, Balanced, True Random, Extreme....
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 18, 2004 09:55 AM

Quote:
3do has its own file, where all the common templates are located. This file is part of another file, so u canīt find it in any directory. Itīs called "rmg.txt".
Some times ago, there was someone who extracted this rmg.txt file from the original one. That was the time, we all could see how the template work.
If the game starts to make a random map, it "takes a look" in your data directory to find this file, and if it isnīt there, it looks into the original one which is included in the bigger file.
So all u have to do, is to download a template (from the TOH site for example), save as "rmg.txt" in your data directory and then u can make a map based on that template.
The most played templates as far as i know are:
Jebus, Blockbuster, Balanced, True Random, Extreme....

Thanks for the info on that, angelito.In the meantime i've found out a couple of new things from another thread, in wich i invite you to subscribe.One more question: where exactly in ToH can you find the downloads for those templates?
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 18, 2004 11:52 AM

http://www.toheroes.com/h3maps/Random.htm
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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted November 28, 2004 09:15 PM

Hey, Frank, have you ever thought making a FAQ or something like that?
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 06, 2004 03:14 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 7 Dec 2004

hit and run fights

Start with the simplest one:

(1) 50 sprites vs 30 zombies on grass. Sprites move 10, zombies move 4. Sprites have no retaliation.
Wait, attack, run away, wait, attack, run away.

Not a big deal.

(2) 50 sprites vs 30 dwarves on grass. The same, you might say. Well - not really.
First of all, there can be a battle dwarf stack. Second, dwarves can get morale.
Third, 6-7 stacks can corner you.

Now dwarves do 2.4-4.8 damage each. It means that a single stack of dwarves can do 12-24, killing 4-8 sprites. Sounds like a disaster? Yes! Can you prevent them from getting good morale? Nope (you'd need sorrow or oppression). Now look at this from the other side: your sprites do 50-150 damage per round (I assumed 5 attack and 0 defense on the hero). Dwarves are dumb, but won't go into sure death. Only a single dwarf would attack your big sprite stack (kamikaze) if he has another choice. Does he? Yes he does! Use 7 stacks of sprites, 6*1 and 1*44. That'll save your butt so many times that you'll lose count.

You can also avoid being cornered that way - just lure the stacks where you want them to be with single sprites.

You used safety play and distraction (Stiven had a good word for the latter one).

(3) Taking a psychic dwelling day 1.
You have 60 sprites and want to attack 6 psychic elementals. The good news is: they are in one stack.

You have to do 300 damage total. 60 sprites do 48-144 damage. You need 3 attacks (or even more). You can't do more than 2 in a row. That's too bad, suppose you did only 145 damage total. 4 psychics live killing 8-16 sprites each.

The same: use 5*1 sprites (6*1 if you are scared). You have a lazy method and a faster one with more losses.

Lazy way: all sprites wait, psychics move. All stacks attack. Sprites back to corner, minions follow and corner it (as if it were a shooter). Psychics move closer. Sprites wait, psychics kill 2 stacks. Sprites attack, etc...

This is called defending your "shooter". Any main stack can be a shooter.

Smart way: all sprites wait, psychics move. All sprites attack. All sprites move back, one single sprite moves behind the psychic elementals IN range. Psychics are back to starting position. Repeat.

This method is called martyr (it's the candy method, really).

(4) Never underestimate creature specialists! Goblins with the speacialist move 6 and with just 35 goblins you can easily kill hordes of level 1's with 4-5 speed.

Hit and run is more difficult this time. Since you don't have no retaliation, you have to estimate your damage well. This includes calculations pre-fight (what you will face and in how many stacks). For example, 36 goblins faced 6*11 troglodytes. Another things:  defending against morale (keep at least one single stack close to your main stack), keep half the stacks lured away (with candy, if needed!). You can even surround your main stack if needed (shooter protection).

Note: you will face 5-7 stacks because you are considered weak by the AI. Do not bring additional creatues, 5 wolves do not help much but can convince the AI using less stacks making you lose some units (not too much though if you are smart enough to take retal away).

Safety play again

For some reason you have only elves in your army (20-25) and are to face horde of pikemen with Ivor.

You have two choices:

1, You use single elf stacks to defend your main stack(s) from morale.
2, You try shooting even at half range if opposing pikemen/halberdier stack can reach you with morale in one turn. Or just move away and wait till they get in range.

Dendroids

In my last game there were too many things to do to use 1 big army. So I used 22 grand elves as first army, 35 goblins (goblin spec hero) as second. A bit later (day 5) I had a third one: 3 dendroids, 2 centaurs, 1 unicorn and 3 pegasi (the other two pegasi was used on scouts/chainers).

First opponent: 5*7 riders + 7 raiders. No spells used. Result: 2 centaurs lost.

Second opponent: 3*15 pixies + 15 sprites. Result: no losses.

Third opponent: 5*15 gnolls, 15 marauders. Result: no losses.

Watch the HP's, use the trees as candies (better said: spider webs ) and hunt them down. I almost lost a tree to the wolves. The gnoll fight was very hard, those bastards do a lot of damage.

Morale facts

With positive morale, you get a chance to make a second action (only if you have already made one!). The probabilities are: 1/24, 2/24 and 3/24 for +1/2/3 morale respectively. It is capped at +3.

With negative morale, your troops have a chance to freeze in combat. The probabilities are: 1/12, 2/12 and 3/12 for -1/-2/-3 morale respectively. It is capped at -3.

(yes, forget what the manual says - it's been tested and true!)

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moraptembul
moraptembul

Tavern Dweller
male biatch
posted December 08, 2004 05:51 PM

First of all hello, to all of you heroes fans around here. i have been around for a while now and i decided to join as i see there are some tournaments going on for new players and i would very much like to join this.This thread is the greatest, i have never seen so much knoledge of heroes all my life.How come do you guys know so much?For exemple how do you know this:
Quote:
Only a single dwarf would attack your big sprite stack (kamikaze) if he has another choice. Does he? Yes he does! Use 7 stacks of sprites, 6*1 and 1*44. That'll save your butt so many times that you'll lose count.



Can you really predict where every stack is going to move?
regards moraptembul

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 07:39 PM

AI predictability

Yes, and you can do it too.
Just think yourself into the AI's place. It's strategy is quite simple, you will see some guidelines in this forum. Just read back a few pages.

For example, in this particular fight (sprites vs dwarves) you can make the dwarves chase your single sprite stacks.

You also know what they will sttack if they have a choice: they'll prefer attacking a single stack to the 44 sprites stack.

It's very simple and logical. I said, dwarves are dumb, but don't like to die. They do not cooperate either. The only cooperation you can see is that a single dwarf attacks your main stack (because the damages done to the two sides are comparable) and then the others go after it (they do not like to be retaliated upon).

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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted January 27, 2005 12:31 AM

I am not a ToH player (am registered though but play only with my friends), congrats on the thread, it has some things I never even thought of (like that you can control the output of Portal of Summoning or find out how much resources the opp has by seeing what can you 'build' when it is his turn...). Here is something courious about anti-magic (maybe not that useful, but who cares):
To dispell the anti-magic spell you need the exact lvl of water school as your oppounents earth is, except in one case - you CAN dispell expert anti-magic with only adv water. Ie. if castle casts anti on archangels try to place a dispell coursor over the stack - that can maybe give you a hint is mass slow an option. This facr ofcourse also ie. prevents dungeon heroes of dispelling anti-magic in many situations (castle has basic water at least). Cheers!
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DoddTheSlayer
DoddTheSlayer


Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
posted January 27, 2005 01:25 AM

Afaik. you can only cast dispel on your own troops until you get expert water. then you can only dispel everything on the battlefield after getting expert.

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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted January 27, 2005 01:58 PM

If anyone can test this, it seems to me we are both wrong, I dunno how I got to that conclusion which I wrote, and I'm sorry for what is false, but I am definitely sure that you can dispell anti-magic with no earth using adv water (just tested, so you don't need expert water).
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