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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted January 15, 2014 09:21 AM |
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@mckarpow
- on "balance" temp i do not go over 5 heroes for no reason
- diplomacy is as good as the player using it, when 2 players at the same lvl use it - the effect varies - one joins some zombies - the other gets marksmen - that's why it's considered 'too much' for multy - just forget it exists
- full crypt is something you practice on single player with every race and after long you'll know when and how to enter it - it depends on a lot of things - including terrain for +1 speed and the proper order in which the units will get to act. - ideally you want a stack that can 1 shot kill the skeletons/wights and a stack of shooters to strike at the vamps/zombies OR a stack with 7 speed to kill the vamps without getting hit back (i.e. - 'steal' their retaliation with 1 fast unit) ect.
- killing lots lvl2/3 shooters is what you need to be able to do with all races, most tactics use lvl6 units to do that. magic arrow/haste/stone skin/heal/fast units with 7 speed/tanking with you own shooters/blocking with 1 stack of 1 guy/using the skill "tactics" ect. are mandatory ofc. - just try it
- on heroes - one does not simply start with Ivor - 'dig' in your tavern and don't hesitate to hire a better hero 
p.s. - last: don't ask Qs here - start your own thread and ask in details - like: on day 3, main hero Ivor (with book) - lvl 5, maxed offense, basic tactics, 5 pegases, 43 cents and 10 elves - i have to kill lots marksmen on grass...
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mckarpow
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2014 10:31 AM |
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Ok, thanks for your replay:
So, I will post my tactic here.
On some templates you can always find a necro castle. You can recruit some wraights there. Now right before a final battle or in any other moment of the game you can equip your heroes with 7 stacks with only one wraight each. Than for example before after battle you attack enemy main hero with your 4-5 heroes to drain all his mana and than you attack him with your main.
xlnt said:
@mckarpow
- on "balance" temp i do not go over 5 heroes for no reason
- diplomacy is as good as the player using it, when 2 players at the same lvl use it - the effect varies - one joins some zombies - the other gets marksmen - that's why it's considered 'too much' for multy - just forget it exists
- full crypt is something you practice on single player with every race and after long you'll know when and how to enter it - it depends on a lot of things - including terrain for +1 speed and the proper order in which the units will get to act. - ideally you want a stack that can 1 shot kill the skeletons/wights and a stack of shooters to strike at the vamps/zombies OR a stack with 7 speed to kill the vamps without getting hit back (i.e. - 'steal' their retaliation with 1 fast unit) ect.
- killing lots lvl2/3 shooters is what you need to be able to do with all races, most tactics use lvl6 units to do that. magic arrow/haste/stone skin/heal/fast units with 7 speed/tanking with you own shooters/blocking with 1 stack of 1 guy/using the skill "tactics" ect. are mandatory ofc. - just try it
- on heroes - one does not simply start with Ivor - 'dig' in your tavern and don't hesitate to hire a better hero
p.s. - last: don't ask Qs here - start your own thread and ask in details - like: on day 3, main hero Ivor (with book) - lvl 5, maxed offense, basic tactics, 5 pegases, 43 cents and 10 elves - i have to kill lots marksmen on grass...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 17, 2014 10:52 AM |
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It is useless against human player, unless he is an amateur and he stays there like a duck to be attacked by low level scouts.
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mckarpow
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2014 11:37 AM |
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Yes, If you can't suprise your enemy you can't use this tactic. Btw. what's the difference between that tactic and hit&run for example? Both works only if enemy main hero is exposed.
Another tip/interesting fact for maps with water: you can hire heroes just to dig for a grail in the coast and leave holes on each possible square, enemy's heroes won't be able to attack you.
Another tip: don't play with inferno. It's true that if you use demon farming it can be very strong. The problem is that it's very easy to screw something up. You should convert all 1-3 levels to demons the week that final battle take place otherwise you will have to convert a new population - you're loosing some Hp by splitting your stacks, you loose some time, you need more guards to do that, it's too complicated.
Another tip: when playing with stronghold you don't buy orcs and cyclops, you're going all in into hand to hand combat. You can have a place for fodders. It's important to remove retaliation before you attack with wolves, they have double attack, it's good to use their's full potential with second hit.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 17, 2014 03:57 PM |
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mckarpow said:
Another tip: don't play with inferno.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted January 17, 2014 06:12 PM |
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I m looking for some balance on MMA. Actually, the problem is the two players must have the same h3bitmap.lod for playing together. I m asking a question, which is over to "balance races problem", why mass haste spell still so strong (as mass slow spell) ? and who agree, if i m mistaken myself.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 29, 2014 01:33 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 02:12, 29 Jan 2014.
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I found out something strange - I'm sure it's known, though - but if red player attacks blue player and they both have a stack of Sprites and, say, one stack Air Elementals. The same of type of creature have the same speed. Now, the attacking player's stack of Sprites will start first every round, however, if blue's stack of Air Elementals die, then blue's Sprites will start first the next round. Why is this? Am I missing something logical about it?
Anyway, it's a good thing to know.
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eXalted
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 29, 2014 02:01 AM |
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Edited by eXalted at 02:05, 29 Jan 2014.
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Hey, I'm a long fan of Heroes III, however I've only played it when I was a child using only simple tactics. Now when I returned to the game and explored how deep it is compared to what I remember when I was younger, I'm noticing that I use the same simple strategies as before.
I'm using one main hero and 1 or 2 more scout heroes with an army of 1 (one!) 1st level creature and exploring the map with them. And this is it. I am supplying all the army to the main hero and clearing the map using him, earning levels and experience only on him. I know that this is far from smart..
So what are you experts doing with your heroes? How many of them do you hire for let's say a Medium/Large map? Do you have 2-3 heroes with armies and using all of them to kill neutral creatures? Or are there some more complex tactics concerning this?
If I have many heroes with average army what is the counter if my opponent have one hero with great army (my friends are also noobs like me soo.. same tactics there)?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 29, 2014 10:25 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 10:36, 29 Jan 2014.
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hippox89 said:
I found out something strange - I'm sure it's known, though - but if red player attacks blue player and they both have a stack of Sprites and, say, one stack Air Elementals. The same of type of creature have the same speed. Now, the attacking player's stack of Sprites will start first every round, however, if blue's stack of Air Elementals die, then blue's Sprites will start first the next round. Why is this? Am I missing something logical about it?
Anyway, it's a good thing to know.
Sprites have a speed of 9, Air Elementals have a speed of 7. Provided all stacks act as soon as they're allowed to do so (as opposed to waiting until other stacks have moved), you keep this order:
1) Attacking Sprites act
2) Defending Sprites act
3) Attacking Air Elementals act
4) Defending Air Elementals act
Rinse and repeat. What the game does, however, is that it compares creature speeds to one another. When two or more creatures are tied for same speed, the game sorts them according to priority. In the above case, both the attacker and the defender have a stack tied for highest maximum speed (9). At the start of combat, this means the attacker gets priority and moves first. In any other phase of the game, the priority is determined by whoever acted with a stack before determining priority: the player who didn't get to act, gets priority. That's why the attacking Air Elementals get to move first after the sprites, and not the Defending Air Elementals.
Now looking at your example, the defending stack of Air Elementals die, so we're left with three stacks: 2 stacks of Sprites and a stack of Air Elementals for the attacker. In your example, the defending Air Elementals died before they got to act, so the last stack to act in that particular combat round were the attacking Air Elementals.
Next combat round begins and the game has to determine priority again, because two stacks have same speed: namely, both stacks of Sprites. Since the stack of Air Elementals of the attacker were the last to act right before it (in the previous combat round), priority is given to the stack of Sprites of the defender to start that round.
If the defender didn't have the Sprites in the above example, but only Air Elementals, then the battle order would be:
1) Attacking Sprites
2) Defending Air Elementals
3) Attacking Air Elementals
Reason for this is that after the Sprites acted, the game has to determine priority for the two stacks tied for same speed. Since the attacker got to act right before, the defender gets priority in this case. Note that this also happens even if the defender had some sprites that got killed off (maybe the attacker killed them with a spell) before the attacking sprites acted!
Now, it is possible that a player has two stacks that are tied for speed. In that case, it's quite useless to determine whether the stacks belong to the attacker or defender, because they both belong to the same side. Suppose for instance that the player has Pixies (speed 7) instead of Sprites. The Air Elementals also have speed 7, which means they're tied for same speed. In that case, the game works from top of the battle line to the bottom (this is the same lineup as in the Hero screen: leftmost creature stack gets placed highest on the battlefield map and stacks consecutively to the right get placed lower, with the rightmost stack at the bottom).
If the Pixies are left of the Air Elementals in the Hero screen, the Pixies will always move before the Air Elementals during battle (unless they somehow get a difference in speed due to spells or so). Note that this applies even if for instance the stacks are changed around with Tactics! If the Air Elementals were to the left of the Pixies in the Hero screen, then the Air Elementals always go first (with the same reservations and exceptions).
Using this knowledge, you can sharpen your own battle tactics by careful ordering of your troops before commencing battle, as well as determining which enemy stacks to take out first. Also, the "Wait" command can be used strategically to change which stack acted last! 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 29, 2014 10:44 AM |
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eXalted said:
So what are you experts doing with your heroes? How many of them do you hire for let's say a Medium/Large map? Do you have 2-3 heroes with armies and using all of them to kill neutral creatures? Or are there some more complex tactics concerning this?
I usually only play campaign maps, so my choice on what I do largely depends on the campaign mechanics. Usually, one or more Heroes carry over to the next scenario (but not always) and when they do, they're usually level-capped.
In that usual case of Heroes carrying over with a level cap on each map, I make a careful selection of which Heroes I want to take along and level each of them up. I start with focussing on my main Hero, which in the expansion campaigns is always a specific Hero provided to the player. I max that Hero in spells, skills, stats and experience, carefully taking note of Trees of Knowledge (I use those last, to reach the level cap as needed). In the mean time, I use my secondaries for the more menial tasks, which gives them experience as well.
If those secondaries carry over, I make sure to maximize their spells, skills, stats and experience as well, to give the best possible start in the next scenario. I simply rotate them into frontline duty as soon as my main Hero gets maximised.
In maps where there's no carrying over of a Hero (in some campaign maps and stand alone maps) I usually focus on a main Hero, but I usually recruit a handful of secondaries who get to level up as well in the shadow of the main Hero.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 29, 2014 01:39 PM |
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@Maurice
Thanks for informative reply. I understand how it works now. It's appreciated. 
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szilellis
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 30, 2014 11:44 AM |
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If you leave your halbs 1 single strong stack the swordmen will probably split to 3 stacks, maybe two.
If you spit to 2 stacks, the swordsmen will split to 4 stacks, maybe 3 but less likely.
So if you play as i described with 2 stacks of halbs, you most likely attack 1st all 4 stacks of enemy swordsmen despite all stacks have speed 5.
Where you got that info from?
Normally, the amount of stacks the AI creates in battle depends on the complete strength of your army, NOT on amount of stacks you split them.
Yes, CPU balances armies strength and decide stack quantity, just like you do. If you have decided to go with 1 stack means that you considered your army weaker than you prefer and if you are right, it is so, the CPU knows the same. That your army is stronger but not much stronger. So CPU creates more stacks as balance of power favors CPU side. If you go out with Septiena for example with several walking dead, lots of goblins will split to 7 stacks since winning is almost certain. CPU never evaluates spells, only creature combat. So you cast 1-2 death ripple spells and all goblin die as simple as that.
To get back to your question, you go with 1 stack, means you believe you are not much stronger than enemy army.
If you are right, CPU knows so stacks will be 3 or 4.
If you are wrong and your army is weaker than you think, stacks will be 5 or even 6.
If you are wrong and your army is stronger than you think, stacks will be 1-2.
Now you decide to go with 2 stacks, meaning you believe your army is sufficiently stronger.
If you are right CPU always knows so stacks will be 1-2
If you are wrong and your army is actually even stronger, CPU will choose 1 stack
If you are wrong and your army is weaker, Stacks will be 3-4.
Numerical example:
You have 100 halbs.
1. enemy is 50 halbs (50% your army)
enemy will split to 3 stacks, 17, 17 and 16.
you need to go 2 stacks. why:
if you go 1 stack you attack 1st 2 stacks and kill but 1 enemy stack will attack you with full numbers killing 3-5 halbs.
if you go 2 stacks you kill 7-14 halbs, the remaining max 10 will mostly kill 1 halb.
Having at least 1 AT/DEF you most likely dont loose any halb on retaliations because more likely only 2-5 halbs will practically survive.
After you wait properly positioned, you strike 2 stacks, suffer retal but no casualty, then strike first 2 times if you let enemy stack #1 or #2 play because you need to strike enemy stack #3 which is full and will play last on that turn.
How many halbs you loose depends on hero AT/DEF, but if you loose 2 halbs when split to 2 and strike first, you loose about 6-8 if you use single stack and again strike first (i laways mean strike first TWICE after the proper wait).
I hope this helps
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szilellis
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 30, 2014 11:51 AM |
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Maurice said:
mckarpow said:
Actually most of the stuff he writes is either wrong or useless
Indeed, like for example this gem:
szilellis said:
So combat rounds goes like that:
your stack 1 waits
enemy stack 1 moves within your stack 1 attack zone
your stack 2 waits
enemy stack 2 moves within your stack 2 attack zone
enemy stack 3 moves within attack zone from both stacks
enemy stack 4 moves within attack zone from both stacks
your stack 1 attacks enemy stack 1
your stack 2 attacks enemy stack 2
next round
your stack 1 attacks stack 3
your stack 2 attacks stack 4
(if enemy stacks survive will now attack)
Note that the assumption is that all stacks have the same speed. In that case, as soon as the next round starts, it's not your two stacks that get to act first. Instead, enemy stack 1 will act first (since it was one of your stacks that acted before it and speed is identical), and then after your stack 1, enemy stack 2 will act before your stack 2.
Furthermore, at same speed, the AI will never move into your attack zone unless it can reach you the same turn, at higher difficulty levels. It will only blindly walk to its doom at the easiest settings.
Setting = Hard or more.
enemy stack #1 will 'lock on' you stack #2 or lower. Have you ever wonder why stacks tend to move DOWN and forward? If you position correctly, enemy stack#1 WILL ENTER your stack #1 attack range in its attempt to strike first your stack #2 or more that it has 'locked'. Try it out and you find out it works.
Remember, tips are tips, but some tactics few people use are exactly hard to understand, harder to apply and even harder to find out. Else there would got used by all simply and from day#1.
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eXalted
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 02, 2014 01:30 AM |
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Edited by eXalted at 01:31, 02 Feb 2014.
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Thanks for the explanation on the heroes count (and the email =] ).
I have one more question. I want to explore more tactics in depth and for that purpose I have one a little strange question:
On a scenario like <b>Marshland Menace</b> and playing with Castle, what is the best tactic on multiplayer. Do I go for units, or Capitol? DO I try to capture the two nearest castles as soon as possible and try building economy? Or something else?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 02, 2014 11:12 AM |
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Just for your informaton...
I will soon clean this thread, especially the last 4 pages from all the questioning and "basic" somewhat called "tactics".
This is a thread where we share GREAT tactics which aren`t common and known only by very few.
If you have questions to specific scenarios in game, open a new thread and post pics and ask detailed questions.
But this thread should be a very good reading for all who want to know about things they have never eard about, or they have never thought it would be possible.
So if there are any posts you want to save, copy them and post them in a new thread, so they are save.
I will start on wednesday....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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heroes_player
Known Hero
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posted February 02, 2014 12:06 PM |
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Well in my opinion not all of them are wastes. For instance, I find sizellis's tactics possibly useful for the players who want to minimisize their losses in neutral fights
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szilellis
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 04, 2014 02:18 PM |
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heroes_player said:
Well in my opinion not all of them are wastes. For instance, I find sizellis's tactics possibly useful for the players who want to minimisize their losses in neutral fights
Well, thanks.
I was about to explain how you calculate stacks to win a 2 vs 3-4 stacks easily by setting the numbers that way so enemy stack 1 survives with 1%-15% percent numbers. when retal is inevitable then the retal stack strength is all you can do. if you attack in that way (crippling stack that will retal) you can actually turn to your advantage the fact that few enemy stacks will have to move (and attack).
Positioning is critical too but hard to explain. Also, if experienced with this tactic, your stack will not have the same number:
Common setup:
Stack A : 50
Stack B : 50
Advanced setup:
Stack B : 55
Stack A : 45 (1 hex forward)
Try the above with 20-25 creatures of same speed/lvl
Looks like i write some things poorly so i maybe use youtube or something.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2014 02:39 PM |
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szilellis writes many not true things so i guess it's fair to clean topic.
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VAL
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 13, 2014 09:44 AM |
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WOG Map Probelm
Hello,
sorry for writing here, but i cant find a WoG Thread.
I made a single player WOG map and wonder about:
1. One neutral hero uses Dimension door but he couldnt have that, not as spell, not as scroll. how could that work?
2. another hero drives right trough a forest(surrounded by water) with his ship?
Thanks for help
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2014 11:58 AM |
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For the first problem it is a bug, AI uses water walk as fly. The only solution is to remove water walk from AI availability and possible give the boots if need. Also new wog objects act as pyramids when AI visits them, so it is possible he got the spell that way, too.
The second problem never saw, no idea.
@Edit: now that I think more, it is possible that the script "passable terrain" allows boats to fly over obstacles, but never played with.
I would remove that script from data/s or disable it in wog options.
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This thread is pages long: 
