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TyrAntilles
Hired Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 12:27 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Winston said:
If you want to focus on making the game into a nerfed e-sport, that's what you should use major change mods like WoG for, not something like HotA that aspires to be a third expansion for the game. Part of what the vanilla heroes is about and that makes it memorable is finding all of the OP stuff and having fun however you want to. Just don't use it if you consider it OP. I don't use conflux, and it's not a problem to me.
"Just don't use" is not a valid excuse to me, it means I have to limit my gameplay and who says other players or the ai will do that. I refuse to use Town Portal, DD, Cloak of the Undead King, Armageddon's Blade and Shackles Of War for the same reason, I think they break the game. And that's why I dissable them in the editor, I wish I could use them, but I just can't in their current state.
Btw I don't like WoG, I prefer classic heroes.
I do agree with Winston but not completly. I agree that a big part of the beauty of Heroes III is to play your best, survive or die, until you find the overpowered stuff and then win the game feeling like a god. I hope this joy won't be taken away by nerfing skills, spells and arties to make them even, for the sake of an equilibred game to the end. This was done by Ubisoft with Heroes V and that's precisely why I like a lot more Heroes III. The feeling of incomensurable power that your hero can achieve in Heroes III is PRICELESS, and I believe this should be preserved at all costs in HotA.
Same is with skills or stuff that does not have the same value. Luck is a big part of the game and getting a less useful skill sometimes when I don't have a choice, only increase my thrill when I finally am able to learn the good skills. To make all skills useful the same, looks like a mistake in my view.
On the other hand, some stuff can be twiked to make it more usable. For example I think is a nice idea to nerf a little bit the Conflux town to bring it in line with the others so you don't need to BAN it in any game.
I believe in the good judgement of HotA team!
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 12:41 PM |
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Galaad said:
Don't feed him Winston, I know it's hard but many of us tried and it's always the same thing.
Sigh, I just don't understand how you guys likes that unbalanced stuff. Winston even prefered un-nerfed (is that word?) necromancy and probably un-nerfed Conflux too. I just don't get it. But of course you are allowed to play or think any way you will, as will I. And I don't like that a game is mainly decided by luck, what does it matter if you are the best player in the world, but the opponent won because they got lucky.
@Worros welcome to the Heroes Community mate.
Go get HD mod and Horn of the Abyss version 1.4.2 asap, I'm sure you and your dad will love it. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 08, 2016 12:52 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:10, 08 Jan 2016.
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I think the nerfs for Necro and Conflux are ok, I think if the team does some slight changes to skills like Learning in the future it will be ok too (I consider it risky but I trust in them), I also think these changes won't be big enough for you.
The problem if you have everything equal is that it won't be the same game anymore. You can't suppress the 1's and 2's or even the 3's from a dice roll, they might come. It is part of the game. Not even to mention the random works in a way that if you understand it you can't have more than one "unwanted" skill.
Most of us tried to redirect you towards wog but maybe your thing would be VCMI, it will allow you to redo skills as you want and you can also have Cove and the cannon.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 01:01 PM |
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Lol people always try to direct my towards WoG, I'm fine with HotA and I will stick with it. I trust HotA crew knows what they are doing and they have made excellent quality content so far. Only thing I wish is I could have a little more control over things, but I accept that I could'nt a long time ago.
And of course there will always be a random element to the game and that's fine, but some things like Cloak of the Undead King or Armageddon's Blade just breaks it. I don't like Town Portal or Dimension Door either, but that's just me.
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 01:16 PM |
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Worros said:
I am sorry to interrupt this discussion but I have literally JUST discovered these boards and am mind blown how I could have been so out of date and how I never realized that HMM 3 has such a strong community.
I am still a fan of HMM3 and still play it to this day. I play HMM3 Complete and I thought that was the last thing ever to come out.
Please tell me, how far behind am I and where can I get new stuff?
I am so happy to have found these boards. People talking about HMM 3. My dad (60) and myself (33) have been playing this game on LAN for years. It's a bit harder now days ofc as I don't exactly live with my parents any more but sometimes I just grab my lap top and go there for a day so my dad and I can play Can't wait to tell him there's more then we knew about
Get Horn of the Abyss here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&pagenumber=1
It's a mod made by a Russian team which introduces a new town, bug fixes, balance changes and a lot more. It shares the same quality as official expansions (in my opinion) and gives the game we all love so much yet another spark of life. :-)
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 08, 2016 01:26 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
And of course there will always be a random element to the game and that's fine, but some things like Cloak of the Undead King or Armageddon's Blade just breaks it. I don't like Town Portal or Dimension Door either, but that's just me.
We know and we also know you don't like First Aid, Learning, Mysticism and Eagle Eye enough that you're mentioning those frequently, urging the team to change them.
Basically, WoG, VCMI and HotA each have a certain scope of what they aim to do, what they want to provide the player. You keep insisting on HotA, while also insisting on the aforementioned balance changes - which are outside the scope of HotA and clearly so. However, they're in the scope of WoG and VCMI, so it's no surprise that when people keep reading your persistent messages about those changes, that they point out you should go for WoG or VCMI.
The only one who doesn't seem to grasp that, is you, since you keep repeating the same issues you have with those spells, skills and artifacts over and over again; issues which are outside the scope of HotA, as indicated by numerous people, including the developers of HotA themselves. What more do you want?
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Worros
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 08, 2016 01:33 PM |
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pellish said:
Get Horn of the Abyss here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&pagenumber=1
It's a mod made by a Russian team which introduces a new town, bug fixes, balance changes and a lot more. It shares the same quality as official expansions (in my opinion) and gives the game we all love so much yet another spark of life. :-)
Thank you. Will make sure to give it a shot
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I played HMM2, liked it a lot. I play HMM3 to this day and think it is the best of the series. I tried versions pass HMM3, none of them came even close.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 01:36 PM |
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Maurice said:
We know and we also know you don't like First Aid, Learning, Mysticism and Eagle Eye enough that you're mentioning those frequently, urging the team to change them.
Basically, WoG, VCMI and HotA each have a certain scope of what they aim to do, what they want to provide the player. You keep insisting on HotA, while also insisting on the aforementioned balance changes - which are outside the scope of HotA and clearly so. However, they're in the scope of WoG and VCMI, so it's no surprise that when people keep reading your persistent messages about those changes, that they point out you should go for WoG or VCMI.
The only one who doesn't seem to grasp that, is you, since you keep repeating the same issues you have with those spells, skills and artifacts over and over again; issues which are outside the scope of HotA, as indicated by numerous people, including the developers of HotA themselves. What more do you want?
Well that's good that my point have come across. I can't do anything more than hope for some skill changes from HotA and if not, then I'll probably survive anyway. They have mentioned they are considering it however and maybe also a nerf to DD, so I have not given up hope.
I'm simply stating my point and I don't wan't to play WoG or VCMI.
(I'll post this again as I don't know if it drowned in the discussion)
@Worros welcome to the Heroes Community mate.
Go get HD mod and Horn of the Abyss version 1.4.2 asap, I'm sure you and your dad will love it.
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 01:43 PM |
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@ Worros: read this, it contains everything you want to know. You'll be completely up to date afterwords.
phoenix4ever said:
Btw I don't like WoG, I prefer classic heroes.
If you prefer classic Heroes, stop asking for annoying changes of the classic Heroes.
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TyrAntilles
Hired Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 04:23 PM |
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Aionb said:
If you prefer classic Heroes, stop asking for annoying changes of the classic Heroes.
==>  +1 from me!
Worros said:
I played HMM2, liked it a lot. I play HMM3 to this day and think it is the best of the series. I tried versions pass HMM3, none of them came even close.
==> +1 from me! That's exactly how I started Heroes series and how I feel about Heroes games.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 04:35 PM |
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Aionb said:
If you prefer classic Heroes, stop asking for annoying changes of the classic Heroes.
Okay HotA then, but that is almost same/same. No point in arguing about this anymore.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 05:06 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
"Just don't use" is not a valid excuse to me, it means I have to limit my gameplay and who says other players or the ai will do that. I refuse to use Town Portal, DD, Cloak of the Undead King, Armageddon's Blade and Shackles Of War for the same reason, I think they break the game. And that's why I dissable them in the editor, I wish I could use them, but I just can't in their current state.
Btw I don't like WoG, I prefer classic heroes.
I don't see the point except "Cloak of Undead King", it is indeed super powerful. DD can be powerful, a limit capped at 2 or maybe 3 ports per day (maybe also higher manacost for every port would be enough). TP is balanced as it is, maybe manacost rise but thats all. AB is also well as it is, I would prefer it as "Set Item" like in campaign for all hell like items (Sword of Hellfire, Shield of the Damned, Hellstorm Helmet, Breastplate of Brimstone). Shackles of war: balanced for major artifact.
The only thing I feel is damn inbalanced is the might/magic hero balance, it's enough for the first 10 levels to snow up the whole balance but thats the HoMM3 gamestyle and will ever be, same as turnbased relailiation (instead of simultanous) or missing fog of war...
Same for "Angelic Alliance" Items with +x all Primary Skills vs. rest of relics. Dunno why ppl don't cry about that stuff. "Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment" has solid +6 everything = 24 points, whole set = +21 everything (84 points total) compared to "Titan's Thunder" (34 points total coz or -3 opposing prim.) all are "relic" class. If it was for me a new class is needed after "relic" to support these insane buffs of AA set (maybe call it "legendary" or something for Sword of Judgement, Lion's Shield of Courage and Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment). But anyways... what I wanted to say... Most ppl don't complain about it and feel that stuff fits to HoMM3.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 05:30 PM |
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Angelic Alliance is awesome, but it is also very hard to assemble. 5 relics and 1 minor artifact.
Cloak of the Undead King is very easy to assemble, a treasure, a minor and a major artifact.
Armaggedon's Blade is just one relic artifact and Shackles is just one major artifact, it removes heroes and takes all their artifacts, that's pretty damn powerful.
The idea about "legendary artifacts" sounds interesting, but in reality it would probably be very hard to decide if some artifacts are relics or legendaries. But some artifacts are indeed too weak or too powerful for their level.
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Worros
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 08, 2016 06:43 PM |
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@Aionb - thank you
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I played HMM2, liked it a lot. I play HMM3 to this day and think it is the best of the series. I tried versions pass HMM3, none of them came even close.
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Gauvain
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 08, 2016 07:32 PM |
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Someone can tell me what are the fonts used in hota for bigfont and medfont ?
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 07:38 PM |
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I agree with assembly for the Cloak, but as for AA you don't need full set to be damn OP. 3 relics are enough to be unbeatable (helm, sword, shield), the prayer is a nice add, but nothing more. Armageddons blade won't drop in standard games anyways, so unquestinable. Shackles aren't that powerful imho, it just prevents an enemy/self to flee. doesnt mean the hero can't be rebuyed at all... u just lose your troops and artifacts. Better stick your stuff to your main hero with powerful units but nothing new imho.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 08, 2016 08:02 PM |
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Earlier I actually banned the helm, sword and shield cause I found them too powerful, especially if you compare them to the necklace and sandals which are also relics. But now I ban as few things as possible as I don't wanna limit the gameplay too much. But those things I mentioned I still find too powerful.
I mostly play solo vs ai or hotseat with friends versus ai and I simply believe Shackles makes it too easy, same with some of the other stuff. Too unbalanced and too easy.
If playing without TP, DD and Shackles game actually becomes harder vs ai, not that I ever lose, but a bit more challenge is always welcome.
Yes Armageddon's Blade is only a campaign artifact and probably should stay that way.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 08, 2016 08:14 PM |
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well I ain't gonna make demands or harp on it, but personally since they have rebalanced stuff I'd love if the HotA guys reworked the crappier skills to a tournament edition standard, they've already given Navigation an amazing whole new life and correcting the useless garbage to make all heroes reasonably usable would make it even more interesting and satisfying to me lol
I hate the idea of the objectively gimped heroes, it's so anti-strategy and pretty bad game design, probably not what NWC really intended ideally lol
I love Heroes 3, but this is one of the only blatant flaws of it IMO, the few lame skills and by extension the imbalanced spell schools, I agree some of the OP **** is part of the charm but I think that should be built up fair and square on the adventure map, not be built into the heroes already lol
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 08:40 PM |
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Yeah I agree, but we'll see how HD Mod and HotA will evolve. Let's hope it'll get a pvp community/platform since it's the only thing still missing for HoMM3.
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Dairy
Known Hero
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posted January 08, 2016 09:13 PM |
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How can be one taken seriously with balance demands / advices, when he only plays against computer, with or without friends (both ways only against computer)...
That's by the definition of not being capable to say what's obtainable/achievable/doable during an online PvP match, since you won't have "unlimited" time to collect and buff your main hero.
But then again, that's just my opinion, I mean no offence at all.
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