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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 17, 2016 06:04 PM |
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natalka said:
The game mechanics will not change. I hoped to make a difference there but I am only making subtle changes to a broken game. When presenting them the real issues , they tell me my view is biased towards multiplayer. So be it..heroes 7 will never be good, only slightly better than H6.
When a hardcore fan of particularly H7 is leaving you know how bad the storm is.
yeah regrettable but very unsurprising to be honest, sinking into the sea of mediocrity even before expansion release,
there isn't anywhere left to hide behind for this team really, it's been contempt for the audience and patronising all the way (veiled or otherwise), they obviously know better than everyone else, well IMO they're just not folks who have what it takes to be at the helm of Heroes lol
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 06:17 PM |
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Natalka, did they give you any explanation as to why they are not changing the current system?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 06:19 PM |
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natalka said:
The game mechanics will not change. I hoped to make a difference there but I am only making subtle changes to a broken game. When presenting them the real issues , they tell me my view is biased towards multiplayer. So be it..heroes 7 will never be good, only slightly better than H6. I was defending the game for so long because my hope for it refused to die. I would change that, and that and the other thing but nothing is going to happen...so today my hope died. RIP
When a hardcore fan of particularly H7 is leaving you know how bad the storm is.
Welcome to the club.
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 06:32 PM |
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natalka said:
The game mechanics will not change. I hoped to make a difference there but I am only making subtle changes to a broken game. When presenting them the real issues , they tell me my view is biased towards multiplayer. So be it..heroes 7 will never be good, only slightly better than H6. I was defending the game for so long because my hope for it refused to die. I would change that, and that and the other thing but nothing is going to happen...so today my hope died. RIP
When a hardcore fan of particularly H7 is leaving you know how bad the storm is.
For me it is kind of bitter sweet to read it, why ? Because on one hand it's good that you have realized that this same team which made HVII won't change it enough to make it better overall, considering making game mechanics changes. On the other hand I guess, all hope is lost, I have lost it some time age considering HVII but still Articun kept me at least little bit optimistic that it would change for the better.
But I say move on the anther game, why ? Still, the devs approach to the game is Wrong, they say your view is biased towards miltiplayer ? oh please, about 90% of the people playing heroes plays singleplayer not multi, so the main focus should be put on singleplayer. This whole mutliplayer thing messed up the game in the first place! They tried to make game mechanics for multiplayer and make the game as much balanced as possible, what made the game very simplified and basically flat without any replayability 
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted March 17, 2016 06:40 PM |
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This is where Heroes VI failed. Or one of the reasons it failed. It tried to focus too much on multiplayer so, the omitted town screens, they omitted randomness, and gave the game too much of an RPG element, but, i think that one of the main reasons we wanted to play multiplayer was because of the great single player experience. At least for me, it was never the other way around, i remember i only played multiplayer on Heroes III and IV and i wanted to because i had a really good time playing single player and wanted to share that.
Also balance has become another thing to fear about. There was no heroes game with true balance but that was also one of its strong points. There is no need to homogenize everything. Heroes VII has done that, both creature role-wise, ability-wise, magic-wise, hero-wise. Everything fell flat, basic, simple, almost identical. I have been shouting for customization for this very reason, if you have to choose from creatures, at least something might be different. The i shouted about making specific roles for the creatures so that at the very least the playstyle of each faction might feel a bit different.
But when you propose stuff, you cross check them with others and see they agree to the points (Elvin here is also in part trying to promote this with his current thread) and you learn that they are not willing to do something but still stay on their own vision that has generated so much negative feedback, you start loosing some to a lot of hope.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted March 17, 2016 07:05 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 19:09, 17 Mar 2016.
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articun said:
and you learn that they are not willing to do something but still stay on their own vision that has generated so much negative feedback, you start loosing some to a lot of hope.
exactly. I have to argue about basic things like why warfare skill is useless for final battle and in the end they told me, my view is handicapped because I only think about final battle (or biased towards multiplayer balance is my interpretation).
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted March 17, 2016 07:33 PM |
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natalka said:
articun said:
and you learn that they are not willing to do something but still stay on their own vision that has generated so much negative feedback, you start loosing some to a lot of hope.
exactly. I have to argue about basic things like why warfare skill is useless for final battle and in the end they told me, my view is handicapped because I only think about final battle (or biased towards multiplayer balance is my interpretation).
It sounds like you were fighting for a couple of good things and views. Great heroes games should have skills which are not totally OP at the beginning of the game, in this regard Limbic is correct. But if some skills are also almost useless in later parts of the game, it is even worse. Who would spend skill points for something that is not useful later.
The same is also for the heroes specializations and some other skills and spells. I assumed they do not want to implement the mechanics dependent on hero level. But what is another way to make the skill/spell/spec useful during whole game lenth?
I also agree with what has been mentioned about multiplayer. Nowadays most of companies try to target both single & multiplayer gamers. As a result, in most of cases it ends terribly. I do not think it is possible to make a game for both of them, at least not if making them together, it makes a combination liked by nobody.
H7 has in my opinion strong stories and also the trailers promised to be focused on the story, but the game has also very limited replayability (and the used argument is that in multiplayer you may choose the class you prefer). I think making two different games (or half-different like Dark Messiah was) for single and multiplayer would help - different rules and game mechanics for them.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted March 17, 2016 07:36 PM |
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted March 18, 2016 01:08 AM |
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I watched lately the forum only for few important lines, not saying anything; As I suspected long time ago, the game is dead, now Nat is confirming that!
See you later (after few years in the future thx to ubi)  
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2016 08:29 AM |
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Articun said:
This is where Heroes VI failed. Or one of the reasons it failed. It tried to focus too much on multiplayer so, the omitted town screens, they omitted randomness, and gave the game too much of an RPG element, but, i think that one of the main reasons we wanted to play multiplayer was because of the great single player experience.
That is a common misconception. It did not even support multiplayer, much less mechanics that work well in multiplayer. Dynasty weapons required CAMPAIGN(!) grinding and were not in any way balanced for multi. Reputation was most definitely not a feature for multi but rather single. Map editor and lack of RMG did not support map creation for multi. Game instability, connectivity errors and the most terrible chat system I have ever seen do not in any way show that this game was meant for multiplayer. It did not even have SIM TURNS nor were they placed as a development priority and that is an absolute must for multiplayer.
So no, not even. Which only means that those decisions were just.. unfortunate? Misguided? Straight out embarrassing?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2016 08:42 AM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2016 08:47 AM |
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That wouldn't be politically correct 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted March 18, 2016 08:53 AM |
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Elvin said:
Map editor and lack of RMG did not support map creation for multi.
Heroes 7 editor is even worse because now you can`t mirror a map like before which means that the mapmaker has to manually copy and mirror all objects on the map. It seems developers are not interested in making this happen.
I have told them that all the multiplayer maps I played for heroes 5 were mirrored...
ah yes multiplayer..my view is biased again..damn..but if I don`t push for multiplayer part of heroes no one else is doing anything in this direction anyway..
and what is multiplayer anyway in heroes?! I think heroes multiplayer experience is single player for the 90% of the game time...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2016 09:12 AM |
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Our suggestions aren't even multiplayer-related. They are simply about proper design, gameplay variety and balance curve. Everyone benefits if some crappy skills remain useful in lategame as opposed to dead weight garbage skills. Especially when they aren't even essential early on! And when certain classes have them as GM skills when they could have had something actually decent.
These are basic things, not hardcore multiplayer changes 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2016 09:17 AM |
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MP is all about overall balance - that is, the difficult part. 
Not having MP a lot means, balance becomes unimportant. The way camapigns are done nowadays, balance plays no role, because one way or another you'll be scripted into a winnable situation. In SP it also doesn't matter since it's imba from the start, human against AI(s), so balance isn't a problem either.
It gets difficult when you consider that most imbalanced things also tend to be fun to play in SP (but of course can't in MP).
No matter what - balance needs a lot of time because it needs a lot of MP playing, results and statistics, which means, a lot of organized support, if you want to do it right.
It also helps, when the initial balance isn't too far off the mark.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2016 09:20 AM |
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Somewhat agree but we should not treat single player as anything goes! I don't mind imbalances here and there but we are talking about balance here and there.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 18, 2016 09:21 AM |
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Elvin said:
These are basic things, not hardcore multiplayer changes
Shocking revelation
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2016 09:31 AM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2016 09:44 AM |
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Elvin said:
Somewhat agree but we should not treat single player as anything goes! I don't mind imbalances here and there but we are talking about balance here and there.
That's what I meant with it helps, when it's not too far off the mark initially.
I mean, if you include simturns and an RMG in your plannings MP balance necessarily must feature as an important development goal, because without overall balance MP is no fun.
Generally, all imbalances backfire sonner or later, no matter the fun they are, because things must not be too easy, and with a double handicap for the AI you can forget it.
What I wanted to say is, OF COURSE you should be biassed for MP, because that what needs balance and in the long run games become boring without balance.
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lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
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posted March 18, 2016 10:18 AM |
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natalka said:
The game mechanics will not change. I hoped to make a difference there but I am only making subtle changes to a broken game. When presenting them the real issues , they tell me my view is biased towards multiplayer. So be it..heroes 7 will never be good, only slightly better than H6. I was defending the game for so long because my hope for it refused to die. I would change that, and that and the other thing but nothing is going to happen...so today my hope died. RIP
When a hardcore fan of particularly H7 is leaving you know how bad the storm is.
This is the END my friend(s) 
Where is Erwan le Destroyer of Heroes now?
He was so brave to meet with fans before the game was released to whisper lies... and now he is hiding in some dark cave 
The only positive I see: The weekend is coming!
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World of Heroes (Czech fansite)
The Shadows Over Ashan (H7 community DLC)
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
