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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER- This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 09, 2018 01:40 PM

Aine or Neela is a good hero, but not the best, because of HoMM shares Earth, Gal, etc They (players) forgot Halon. He's rare hero, when HoMM saves him, and Halon is "better" hero. In WoG, Halon could be "the best" hero. My guy thought mysticism is better than scholar, he wastes too much magic mana. And therefore he picks Halon. It told also his game style. So his HoMM opens the Halon, etc And your heroes and skills are always the same, but closed.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2018 01:46 PM

@ebonheart...

First things first, holy crap! Yeah, the gargoyles do have 16 HPs. Why  have I always been under the impression that they have 12 HPs?? Dang!

The nagas... yeah, they're expensive indeed, I somehow overlooked this aspect. Honestly, though, I don't find their building to be expensive for how good they are. I mean, I think they are worth every coin they cost. As comparison, I find the cyclops dwelling WAY more expensive for what they. Break the walls in a siege?? Pfff, the catapult does that anyway, it's not worth wasting 20 crystal on building the cyclops when you can get upgraded Behemoths that will butcher everyone anyway

Aine... yeah I thought so, that you meant to play her as a secondary her, but I wasn't sure since you've put her alongside Neela, which I still don't understand what you don't like about. Armorer specialists take the 2nd spot in the list of cheating heroes, after logistics specialists.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna play H3 again because all this talk about Tower (a town that I'm not very good with and thus play it only rarely) has gotten my appetite for H3 up

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2018 01:49 PM

Ghost said:
Aine or Neela is a good hero, but not the best, because of HoMM shares Earth, Gal, etc They (players) forgot Halon. He's rare hero, when HoMM saves him, and Halon is "better" hero. In WoG, Halon could be "the best" hero. My guy thought mysticism is better than scholar, he wastes too much magic mana. And therefore he picks Halon. It told also his game style. So his HoMM opens the Halon, etc And your heroes and skills are always the same, but closed.


What?? Halon is not a good hero. On every map you can find magic fountains and/or towns to replenish your mana quite frequently, and if you don't find any of these objects at least 2-3 days apart (but you do), there's always the mysticism skill that can solve your mana problems for good. So, why would you pick a mysticism specialist? It's waste of specialty if you asked me

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted September 09, 2018 09:49 PM

Halon is not main material and he is not special either, apart from being one of the few Tower heroes with the ability to get 3x creature stacks at the start.

@Monere
Hehe have fun!

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2018 10:11 PM

Ebonheart said:
Halon is not main material and he is not special either, apart from being one of the few Tower heroes with the ability to get 3x creature stacks at the start.

@Monere
Hehe have fun!


No chance of that NOT happening since I play this game monthly, but thanks

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 09, 2018 11:54 PM

I think that you never used opening hero goes to land, and immediately fight against monsters with magic arrow, and his armies are gremlins and gargoyles to get a wood, ore, etc and then very far from kingdom. AI does well. I think that you wait for large army, example of magi or master gremlin. Is it right? IDK, but your skill with, what do you see about the game.

Halon is a good hero, and you need archery, what's the basic skill from tower, you hope get a armorer, and then wisdom, air, next logistics, etc without scholar, eagle eye, etc

I waste too much magic mana, and I love a map, where aren't magic well, etc If I have intelligence, view air/earth and TP. I'm very far from kingdom. When 12 mana, I back to town, but Halon wants to continue
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted September 10, 2018 06:46 AM
Edited by Ebonheart at 06:46, 10 Sep 2018.

Magic heroes are very weak on the map due to low attack/defense ratings aswell as mana issues. In other words I do not wait for Master Gremlins and Magi before I start draining the map. Hence, offense/tactics/logistics are amongst the first choices.
Halon is nothing special and weak overall. Archery is a waste until the middle of the second week.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 10:02 AM

Don't know whether that has been said, but apart from the fact that most Tower heroes are crappy and battle may be half over already when you finally get your first move, the obvious Tower weakness is, that when you look at the unupgraded creatures, only Stronghold is weaker (but Stronghold is also a lot cheaper).

In other words, you need to upgrade ALL the critters, and that is especially true for Giants which are as crappy as Bone Dragons, Giant to Titan being the best upgrade in the whole game. Fielding unupgraded creatures is possibly the worst thing you can do, and that is a big disadvantage with a view on your heavy hitters.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 01:32 PM

@JollyJoker.... to clear the map you only need to upgrade the gremlins so they can shoot. Both magi and nagas can clear the map efficiently, they just need a boost in speed. A haste spell and / or Necklace of Swiftness / Ring of the Wayfarer are very good items for Tower (well, for anyone, but for Tower more than anything), and they are quite easy to find on good maps.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 02:01 PM

Clearing (part of) the map isn't the whole game, obviously, because clearing the map is only for getting the XP and skills for your hero and the resources to build up your town(s), which would be unnecessary, if clearing the map youd be the actual goal.

As it is, however, it's just a means to the end of beating a comparable opponent, easier against the AI on what you may call an MP map (regular map with the possibility to pick random towns), more difficult against opponents on maps with specifically tailored AI opponents, and even more difficult against a human player, all depending on map richness and difficulty, both in level, as well as in neutrals.

Sure, if you have time and the map is "friendly", you may have no problem to get Titans running, but in every scenario where you can't get them on the map, you will suffer.

Basically spoken, everyone else will be up to strength faster. Keep also in mind, that if you give you artifacts ans spells, the others can argue with the same premise.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 02:26 PM
Edited by monere at 14:27, 10 Sep 2018.

@JollyJoker.... The point I was disputing was this one "...you need to upgrade ALL the critters..."

You've never specified what the upgraded creatures are needed for (to clear the map, or to win the game), and since you've never specified which of the 2 cases you were referring to I assumed that you are referring to clearing the map, since winning the game could be said by any un-upgraded town, not just tower.

So, if clearing the map is what we're arguing here, then my point was that you don't need upgraded Tower creatures to clear the map because both magi and nagas can clear the map efficiently, even without the haste spell. With haste / artifacts even better. The only creature you'll need to upgrade are the gremlins, but I don't think even they are needed in certain circumstances

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 02:54 PM

No, we are of course talking about WINNING - as I said, clearing the map is just a means to the end (and here the speed of clearing matters, so the speed of the clearing creatures and the availability of Logictics and/or movement artefacts matter as well).

And, no, Tower needs to DEARLY upgrade their best creatures and that's is extremely expensive - other towns don't, in relation to each other. I mean, sure, depending on what settings and map to play, you can beat a map with Naga Queens alone, but that's not what we are talking about here, because this is basically about comparing twons with each other, and fact is, that if you take a weekly Tower production with Giants, the upgrade of said Giants to Titans will increase the overall strength of the tower by roughly 1/3.

If the Tower armies are caught out in a situation where they have to fight with unupgraded L7s against another town with unupgraded L7, it will have a VERY hard time, which is why everyone would try and do it.

The question isn't whether a town can beat a given map (against the AI). The question is how a town fares against others under comparable conditions.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 03:03 PM

You're saying that Tower needs ALL of their creatures upgraded in order to win, but this applies to ALL towns, not just tower.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 03:40 PM

All units are crap without the upgrade, with the Giants being the biggest letdown. In practise, you'll have an ore problem building the simple creatures, and while Giants are cheap, grading them up will cost you, big money (and after that you have to recruit them), the problem being that upgrading Mages needs the Library, so that upgrading your most important creatures (Mages, Genies, Nagas) and getting the mage guld up will cost you a significant amount of ALL available resources.

Between all those demands danger is you are caught out with some half-cocked brew.

And this doesn't apply to other towns. To give an easy example, you don't need to upgrade Skeletons. You don't need to upgrade Demons. You don't need to upgrade Gogs. You don't need to upgrade Angels. You don't need to upgrade Beholders...

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Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2018 03:47 PM

monere said:
You're saying that Tower needs ALL of their creatures upgraded in order to win, but this applies to ALL towns, not just tower.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you


Actually this does not applies to all towns. Inferno has one of the best unupgraded army.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 03:56 PM

Otuken said:
monere said:
You're saying that Tower needs ALL of their creatures upgraded in order to win, but this applies to ALL towns, not just tower.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you


Actually this does not applies to all towns. Inferno has one of the best unupgraded army.


Inferno is an exception, and then, even they might need the Efreeti upgraded in some situations. But generally speaking, all towns need their creatures upgraded... well, the creatures they're carrying along anyway, cause I doubt people will ever upgrade Dendroid Guards, or Walking Dead

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 04:12 PM

You are wrong about Dendroids.

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Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2018 04:13 PM

I still think Titan is unbalanced unit and contradicts Heroes concept. Normally shooters are expected having less HP than flyers and grunts for covering their shooting advantage like Marksman or Grand elves. But they are some shooters that almost as durable as grunts which are evil eye and medusa. They have high HP as shooters but they deal little damage.

Whereas titans have the highest HP and deal the highest damage. A shooter should not have the highest HP and damage at the same time for game balance.
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 10, 2018 04:57 PM

Ebonheart said:
Magic heroes are very weak on the map due to low attack/defense ratings aswell as mana issues. In other words I do not wait for Master Gremlins and Magi before I start draining the map. Hence, offense/tactics/logistics are amongst the first choices.
Halon is nothing special and weak overall. Archery is a waste until the middle of the second week.


Halon gets better skill, if you use him. Tower culture/strategy/spirit is a archery, if he/she is a wizard. Titan gets 50% damage, and makes a total of 60-90 dmg. Wizard is a very powerful magic, and archery supports troops. Easy! If player knows how to make magic as chess openings, middle and endgame. The spirit of the game works well with archery The thing is the fact. But your own thing. No problem!
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 06:18 PM
Edited by monere at 18:28, 10 Sep 2018.

JollyJoker said:
You are wrong about Dendroids.


not at all. You only upgrade them when/if someone is attacking you, cause otherwise you never take them with you because they're too slow. And the same goes with zombies, golems, and other creatures

@otuken... if Titans had even 50 less HPs (so 250 HPs) Tower would have rarely - if ever - defeated someone, because every town has army that carries the town to victory, and for Tower that army are the Naga Queens and the Titans. Nerf any of these units and you can say goodbye to Tower winning any games.

So, you either leave the Titans as they are, or, if you lower their HPs to please otuken then you add those additional HPs to another creature, or you distribute them evenly among the other creatures of Tower, but even then I'm not sure Tower would manage to defeat anybody... except for Fortress maybe, cause Tower usually rapes Fortress, but I wouldn't bet my money on Tower anymore had they lowered Titan's HPs by 50. Not to mention that Black Dragons already deal a lot of damage against the Titans and they hit them first, too. Had the Titans had even less HPs than they currently have.... it would be game over before the end of turn 1

The moral of the story is: stop picking on MY Titans

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