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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER- This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2018 10:15 PM

Salamandre said:
What he means is that low stats scouts can level much faster and safer when using arch-devils because no retal ability.


But that can be said about any level 7 creature, not just the ADs

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 13, 2018 10:18 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:18, 13 Sep 2018.

monere said:
But that can be said about any level 7 creature, not just the ADs

If you try that with Gold Dragons, for instance, you will lose some from time to time. With AD it's money the bank...
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 13, 2018 10:19 PM

Monere, why don't you read what people write?

He said on ogres and golems - high HP but slow. Low stats scout means you will probably lose some, but when archs, no retal = safe battle;

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2018 10:21 PM
Edited by monere at 22:21, 13 Sep 2018.

bloodsucker said:
@MonereA simple strategy you will never see in competitive MP, since they wouln't waste half a dozen level 7 units to power-up a scout, while in SP, with the necessity to take every single town and kill every single hero, powerful scouts will help a lot finishing faster.


They are good for scouts, yes, but as I said above, that's true for any 7 level creature, not just ADs. Put an Archangel on scouts and you can clear the map / level up / kill every single hero / etc. just as fast as with the ADs. Put a Black Dragon on your scouts.... an Ancient Behemoth.... even a Chaos Hydra.... you get the point

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2018 10:23 PM

Salamandre said:
Monere, why don't you read what people write?

He said on ogres and golems - high HP but slow. Low stats scout means you will probably lose some, but when archs, no retal = safe battle;


Oh, I do read what people write. Failing to connect the dots, however, is a different story

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 06:47 AM
Edited by Lth3 at 06:47, 14 Sep 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
I don't play competitive multiplayer, I don't think I would find it very fun either.


MP is the best thing. fun depends if you play against the same skill as yourself though. not way above or way below. a good indicator of player skill is time per turn, like beginner and intermediate players prefer 1-2min, advanced 4min, expert 6min per turn or more

bloodsucker said:
I don't believe you would like it, either but Inferno seems weak specially on Multiplayer. I've used some Archdevils as support troops for Miriam in many scenarios and they do wonders. Fast to flee and excellent to kill slow/high life neutral armies like Golems and Ogres, they help a lot on developing scouts. But in the end, with a dozen towns, only ArchAngels and Titans keep their usefulness, unless it's a custom map.
Note that the fact there is no bank spawning devils helps to keep Inferno weak, at this moment all strong towns but Rampart have a way of getting reinforcements from the map, in HotA.


it is only an average town if you don't demon farm. in comparison Necro is a weak town if you don't skeleton farm. just that skeleton farming comes a lot easier

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 14, 2018 10:15 AM

monere said:
They are good for scouts, yes, but as I said above, that's true for any 7 level creature, not just ADs. Put an Archangel on scouts and you can clear the map / level up / kill every single hero / etc. just as fast as with the ADs. Put a Black Dragon on your scouts.... an Ancient Behemoth.... even a Chaos Hydra.... you get the point


What matters in this respect are two things:

- Speed. Higher speed on the creatures carried by a Hero means the Hero has more movement points at the start of the turn. Hence also the cheesy tactic of handing over all but the fastest creatures to another Hero, picking up all the slower units at the start of the next turn; this way you can benefit from maximum movement points possible. Especially for Scouts, movement speed is important.

- Damage absorption / mitigation. Scouts inevitably end up in combat from time to time. Since AD's don't suffer retaliation and are flyers for all practical purposes, they are probably the best tier 7 creature at avoiding damage. Their hitpoints are low for a tier 7, but these battles fought by Scout Heroes are usually tactical battles against small numbers of enemies at most. Other tier 7 creatures either suffer retaliations or aren't as mobile as AD's.

If you rank the tier 7s according to this, AD's are among the top.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 10:31 AM
Edited by monere at 10:31, 14 Sep 2018.

in theory, you're right. In practice, I have always felt more confident with ancient behemoths on my scout, especially that I usually use quick combat. With quick combat it's been times when I've lost ADs when using the scouts, but with ABs almost never. And with Archangels even less than that.

But anyway, I'm not taking away from the AD's merits. I personally LOVE that creature, both design-wise and gameplay-wise. It's just that I don't see them as the best tier 7 creature to use on scouts

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 10:57 AM

monere said:
in theory, you're right. In practice, I have always felt more confident with ancient behemoths on my scout, especially that I usually use quick combat. With quick combat it's been times when I've lost ADs when using the scouts, but with ABs almost never. And with Archangels even less than that.

But anyway, I'm not taking away from the AD's merits. I personally LOVE that creature, both design-wise and gameplay-wise. It's just that I don't see them as the best tier 7 creature to use on scouts


i will teach you how to play Heroes. we will start from the basics

Step 1: Disable Auto Combat

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 14, 2018 11:32 AM

Lth3 said:
Step 1: Disable Auto Combat


I guess that depends on the outcome of the battle. It's true that the auto combat AI is horrible, but if your losses are acceptable, it saves you the hassle of micro-managing every single battle.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 11:50 AM

Nah, I'm gonna keep using auto combat

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 12:00 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 12:06, 14 Sep 2018.

Maurice said:
Lth3 said:
Step 1: Disable Auto Combat


I guess that depends on the outcome of the battle. It's true that the auto combat AI is horrible, but if your losses are acceptable, it saves you the hassle of micro-managing every single battle.


you are right. and we are living in 2018 and have the almighty HD mod for that. man behind it is genius

monere said:
Nah, I'm gonna keep using auto combat


then you shouldn't judge creatures so obliterantly based on your gameplay shortcomings


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-P_ljZDoM

just a good video to put things into perspective

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 12:14 PM
Edited by monere at 12:15, 14 Sep 2018.

I was so eager to watch that video but then I saw dude's face on top of the video and went like "eww, no thanks! I'm outta here".

I'm not joking, I get triggered easily by things that I don't like and one thing I don't like is watching a clip with some random dude showing his mug like he's some important VIP or something. If that dude is you, I'm sorry, but I'm not watching the clip to see your face, I'm watching the clip to see what you have to say / prove / whatever.

Fix that BS and I promise I'll watch the clip

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 02:34 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 14:37, 14 Sep 2018.

you are one triggered m**o or smth

he's just a streamer as far as i'm concerned. for it to not look fabricated it seems most likely he was recording it live

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 14, 2018 02:55 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 15:42, 14 Sep 2018.

monere said:
In practice, ... I usually use quick combat.

So, we were all talking to a wall? Of course Archdevils are weak if you use quick combat, that's the point: you use that thing between your shoulders to outsmart the poor AI and gain experience without losing any units or spending too many spellpoints from a battle that would be lost if both sides had similar (thinking) resources.
That's why I say it's a waste against other humans in my second post, humans don't fall for bait.

Maurice said:
It's true that the auto combat AI is horrible
It doesn't matter how good Auto Combat is, there are only two situations: you can outsmart it and win an disfavorable battle with a scouts army or you can't and need to bring a powerful army to match his force. If Auto Combat (AI) was much better you would need very advanced tricks to outsmart it but the principle is the same.
Curiously, for long I didn't understood some custom maps cause I didn't realized this simple principle and was trying to outmatch AI's strength.

monere said:
I was so eager to watch that video but then I saw dude's face on top of the video and went like "eww, no thanks! I'm outta here".
It's a petty you didn't stayed for just a bit longer since the battle is the perfect example of what we have all been saying. No way Auto Combat would give you that win but after a long and boring fight he got 6000 experience day one using a quite small number of units even weaker then ArchDevils.
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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 03:27 PM

even against a human ADs are neat. they can safely hide behind a couple of hundred ( or thousand ) stack of demons after performing a no retal attack

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 14, 2018 03:40 PM

I got one rule: NEVER use Auto Combat, it sucks, badly.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 14, 2018 03:53 PM

Auto Combat only makes sense in SP if you use the "replay battle" feature from HD Mod. The all purpose of the game is to use your brain to win battles sooner then you would if you were waiting for muscle. That's why Salamandre made Conquistador mod, some of us find to start without any resources way too easy and need to boost AI to keep some challenge after the first weeks.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 03:55 PM
Edited by monere at 15:58, 14 Sep 2018.

Lth3 said:
you are one triggered m**o or smth

he's just a streamer as far as i'm concerned. for it to not look fabricated it seems most likely he was recording it live


Yes, I am easily triggerable, especially by mimbos who need to show their pretty faces when they have to say something that doesn't require their face to be seen. It's common sense and curtosy, really, and sadly many youtubers don't have it.


Quote:
I got one rule: NEVER use Auto Combat, it sucks, badly.


At first, I'm not using it, but as the game progresses and months are starting to pass I am turning auto combat on. Why would I waste time fighting each battle if I suffer no casualties?


Quote:
So, we were all talking to a wall?


Kind of. I only understand and reply to what I want to understand. Everything else is meaningless to me.


Quote:
t's a petty you didn't stayed for just a bit longer since the battle is the perfect example of what we have all been saying


No, it's no pity at all. When someone shows me a clip on tactics I expect to watch the tactics, not the guy who demonstrates said tactics. Again, it's common sense and respect for people not to show your pretty little face when the purpose of your video is TACTICS, not how pretty (you think) you are.

Also, I have said many times on many threads on this forum that I am NOT pro at Heroes 3, and don't intend to become one, either. So, stop trying to prove the world to me cause I don't care. I'm only playing this game for fun (and I'm having lots of it even against the AI, which still beats me 30-40% of the time), and let's agree to move on

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 14, 2018 04:09 PM

If you use a quick combat. What I know a little QC. A few of skeleton own place is 7, if you use all 1-7 armies, otherwise place is 6, etc and then stronger monster like dracolich is 1 place, if legion monster, but not stronger than dracolich, so place is 2. Weaker or a few of army is always in 7 place. Ok short, but you get the best result. H4 is more hard to use QC against AI. Yes, fun to play if you have learned. And H4 one campaign you force to use QC, you win a battle without losing armies. But you can't get a prize. My guy said solution for any kind of rule is QC
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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