Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -TOWER- This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 07:24 PM

monere said:
I doubt people will ever upgrade Dendroid Guards, or Walking Dead

Quote:
You are wrong about Dendroids.

Quote:
not at all. You only upgrade them when/if someone is attacking you


Conclusion: you make sense only if/when people are never attacked.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2018 07:37 PM

Tower would still be one of the strongest town in game if Titans had 50 less HP since as far as I remember tower produces one of the most hitpoints per week alongside Rampart and Conflux. Decreasing HP or/and damage is necessary for Titans. But I think adding melee penalty could be another option. Tower is not only strong with nagas and titans, their other troops are also strong, only master genie is a bit weak.

What about Ghost Dragons, Archdevils, Archangels, Chaos hydras or Gold Dragons? They do not shoot but have less HP than Titans. Ok let's assume Ghost dragon is reasonable creature because easy to build the dwelling and one of the cheapest 7.th level creature but Archdevil? You will say they have no enemy retaliation ability but isn't shooting ability already a kind of no enemy retaliation ability also much more secure version since unlike devils you don't have to send titans to enemy forces thus your titans will not get butchered by enemy forces like devils.

Just compare Archdevils and Titans you will notice that how imbalanced are Titans and how need them to get nerfed.

Black Dragons? There will be always less Black Dragons than Titans because their dwellings require mage guild level 2-3.
Sending Black Dragons to Titans would just accelerate Tower's victory. Then Iron golems Naga Queens and Titans'itself will kill all dragons. Dungeon is too weak town and has no chance againt tower. Dungeon's native terrain is problematic and if they start in surface, they will suffer from starting at non-native territory.




____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 10, 2018 07:43 PM

By the way, did any of you guys try my set of Challenge maps?

They were actually thought as a regular challenge feature, where you have to beat the map with the best score you can manage. If anyone thinks Tower is seriously OP, you might try the Tower map.

(Sorry for the shameless self-advertisement.)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 08:46 PM
Edited by monere at 20:55, 10 Sep 2018.

JollyJoker said:
Conclusion: you make sense only if/when people are never attacked.


my, my, what a smart guy we have here.... NOT!


Otuken... at worst, you will get black dragons one week later than Titans, and considering that they hit first and that they reach the Titans in the 1st turn, and that they have better stats, and that they hit the Titans with extra 50% damage.... well, you do the math! Titans are freaking balanced as they are, so stop complaining! Just because you can't play Tower it doesn't mean that Titans are too strong. Genies, Magi and Gremlins are squishy as f*ck, and golems usually stay in the castle. You can't win with Gargoyles alone, so you have to give Tower some decent creatures or else they lose 100% of the time. And those creatures are the nagas and the titans.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 10, 2018 09:20 PM

monere said:
JollyJoker said:
Conclusion: you make sense only if/when people are never attacked.


my, my, what a smart guy we have here.... NOT!


Guys, provocations are against the CoC. Focus on the content or the issue at hand, not on the person.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2018 09:28 PM

Underground is so poor in terms of resource and almost impossible to get Black Dragons earlir than Titans. Dungeon suffers from lack of cost effective shooter like Marksman, Grand Elves or Master Gremlin this mean Dungeon will suffer from much more casualties during cleaning map compared than other towns.

If you find a though opponent against tower, Necropolis would be better choice than Dungeon since Black Dragons' damage bonus is definitely not enogh to beat tower. Dungeon only has better lvl5 unit whereas other Tower units are better.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 10:37 PM

Maurice said:
monere said:
JollyJoker said:
Conclusion: you make sense only if/when people are never attacked.


my, my, what a smart guy we have here.... NOT!


Guys, provocations are against the CoC. Focus on the content or the issue at hand, not on the person.


What is CoC??

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 10:41 PM

Otuken said:
Underground is so poor in terms of resource and almost impossible to get Black Dragons earlir than Titans. Dungeon suffers from lack of cost effective shooter like Marksman, Grand Elves or Master Gremlin this mean Dungeon will suffer from much more casualties during cleaning map compared than other towns.

If you find a though opponent against tower, Necropolis would be better choice than Dungeon since Black Dragons' damage bonus is definitely not enogh to beat tower. Dungeon only has better lvl5 unit whereas other Tower units are better.


According to you all towns are garbage except for Necropolis and Castle, which - coincidentally or not - are the most overpowered in the entire game. Which means.... you don't know squat about this game.

I think even I would be able to beat you at Heroes 3, and I can't even beat the AI lol

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2018 11:09 PM

I don't waste my time by playing with an idiot that considers Conflux the worst town which is banned in competitive games.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 10, 2018 11:20 PM
Edited by monere at 23:21, 10 Sep 2018.

Otuken said:
I don't waste my time by playing with an idiot that considers Conflux the worst town which is banned in competitive games.


I've always considered Necro fans to be whiny lil' kids who need all the help they could get to pull a win. Now I have proof too

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2018 04:10 AM

You have to update your software, guys. Hota expansion fixed a lot of issues about tower, conflux, inferno and every other town, map templates, spells and (some) skills. Is like talk about RoE once SoD is out, keep informed about updates because the game and strategies you describe there doesn't exist anymore, nobody is playing it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted September 11, 2018 05:34 AM
Edited by Ben80 at 05:40, 11 Sep 2018.

Salamandre said:
You have to update your software, guys. Hota expansion fixed a lot of issues about tower, conflux, inferno and every other town, map templates, spells and (some) skills. Is like talk about RoE once SoD is out, keep informed about updates because the game and strategies you describe there doesn't exist anymore, nobody is playing it.


HotA is one of many Heroes mods, HotA is not original Heroes 3. Nobody grant HotA team permission to pretend continue Heroes 3 add-ons, neither  owner of Heroes 3, nor Heroes 3 fans.
It's like to pretend to continue some genius literary work. Suppose you are a good reader and fan reader, but it does not follow you can write something good yourself.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2018 06:10 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 06:19, 11 Sep 2018.

I know no other mod which is used as platform for every actual H3 tournament, worldwide. Also I know no other mod which was built and set using data, reports and ideas from the best players around the world. Hota is multiplayer designed expansion, so towards balance in priority. For instance, here are the Tower fixes, aren't they at the core of what you guys discuss?

Building tree:

Altar of Wishes, Golden Pavilion, Upg. Golden Pavilion, Cloud Temple and Upg. Cloud Temple no longer require Mage Guild level 1 and Mage Tower.

Golden Pavilion and Upg. Golden Pavilion now require Altar of Wishes.

Upg. Altar of Wishes no longer requires Mage Tower (Mage Guild level one is still required).

Building prices:

Golem Factory price in gold is decreased from 2000 to 1500.
Upg. Golem Factory price in gold is decreased from 2000 to 1500.
Mage Tower price in gold is decreased from 2500 to 2000.
Altar of Wishes price in gold is decreased from 3000 to 2500.
Upg. Cloud Temple price in gold is decreased from 25000 to 20000.

Heroes’ starting armies:

Amount of Stone Gargoyles increased from 3–5 to 5–7.
Amount of Stone Golems increased from 2–3 (or 2 in Josephine’s second slot) to 4–5.


In addition, all towns with a fort have dwelling level 2 prebuilt - isn't that fixing some of the most sensible issues about races?

You sound like macron1, having some personal grudge on Hota, not the best environment for objective analysis. I don't play Hota as I prefer Wog/era but is not so hard to see Hota is a faithful expansion, both quality and gameplay related.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted September 11, 2018 08:36 AM

Salamandre said:
I know no other mod which is used as platform for every actual H3 tournament, worldwide. Also I know no other mod which was built and set using data, reports and ideas from the best players around the world. Hota is multiplayer designed expansion, so towards balance in priority.



And still nobody grant HotA team permission to pretend to be almost official add-on.
I think original Heroes 3 actually don't fit to be full-fledged sports discipline, and HotA is interesting effort to transform Heroes 3 to sport discipline.
But I don't see HotA as true add-on.

Salamandre said:

For instance, here are the Tower fixes, aren't they at the core of what you guys discuss?



There are many points in original game which are debatable. However usually such debatable points make original game even more interesting. There is specific "spirit" or "aura" of original Heroes 3.

Salamandre said:

In addition, all towns with a fort have dwelling level 2 prebuilt - isn't that fixing some of the most sensible issues about races?



Contrary - it is one from many examples when HotA corrupt original game a little bit.
About HotA quality - I have analyzed some HotA ideas/novelties. HotA game analytic quality much lower than in original game. Game analytic level is quite high in original game (despite the fact that many fans think the opposite).
And, again, there is big difference - source of changes in add-on. Creators of game and some game fans - very big difference.
Sometimes I wondered - why HotA team don't understand some game points, though they investigate game already many years... And of course answer clear - they are not creators of game.
By analogy, some reader may know by heart some literary work - better than author. But he can not to create something like this...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 11, 2018 08:55 AM

You guys both have good arguments.

Personally, I like Tower to be expensive. I feel really challenged when I try to win with this town, and when I finally get the Titans.... oh boy, I'm ecstatic

On the other hand, feeling the need to "fix" this town is also normal because the CA$$ is poured into the developers accounts by the masses, not by the few extra, ultra, mega, pros who can beat the game in the harshest conditions. And the masses don't usually like tough challenges or unbeatable games, they just want to have fun, so you gotta cater to the masses

I've never played HotA either, and I will probably never give it a try considering all these balances. I also have no idea what Era is, nor do I care about it at the moment, but I'm sure as hell glad that WoG has come along. For me that is the best way to play Heroes, and I'm having so much fun with WoG that I genuinely don't feel compelled to try any other mods / versions, etc.

I mean, I am 100% positive that I've NOT tried all of the WoG settings and customization yet, even though Ive been playing it monthly for the last 15 years or so. And the reason I haven't tried all of the options is because the ones I like are so damn good in my opinion that I don't feel compelled to try anything else until I get bored of these settings first. And since I haven't gotten bored of them after 15 years... well, I guess I'll be playing WoG for at least 15-20 more years, although I predict a lot more than that

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2018 09:01 AM

Era is wog next generation. About 130 mods, easy to enable and disable, best fun ever as it never runs out of new ideas. If you are into single game and already played vanilla for years, that is for you.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 11, 2018 09:26 AM

monere said:
What is CoC??


The CoC is the Code of Conduct, the rules by which you are allowed to post on these forums and which you agreed upon when you signed up here. They can be found here, or through the link of FAQ/Rules at the top of the page.

As such, your post ...

monere said:
I've always considered Necro fans to be whiny lil' kids who need all the help they could get to pull a win. Now I have proof too


... addressed at Otuken is in violation of rules 1 and 6 of the CoC. Consider yourself warned.

I am keeping my eye on the posts made in the forum sections I am moderating and while I am generally lenient in my attitude - as I feel that for the most part we're adults and hence should have a sense of responsibility in the way we behave ourselves - it does have limits.

That applies to everyone here, by the way. Adhere to the CoC and address the issues at hand - not the person writing it; that's my job.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 11, 2018 10:36 AM

Guys, can't we just agree that there are many tastes und purposes to play a game and that mods are a good thing, even when not everyone likes them? I think, that Heroes 3 is a very good game, but not perfect by a long shot - or maybe just not completely done, if you want to. It's not worth an argument: when so many people like a game over such a long time, then obviously the game does something right.

So whether Hota is good or bad - if you find it good it gives you more stuff to delve into, and if not, well, you didn't pay for it, you are not forced to play it, so what?

For the matter of town comparison, it should be obvious that an asymmetric game like this cannot be balanced for each and every map, setting, and purpose, It should be clear that if game values become very bag, things get out of whack. Hero bonusses for the Offense and Armorer specialists, Skeleton armies, Behemoth damage via defense reduction, Archangel cloning and letting them resurrect instead of casting Resurrect ... the list is long, and standing practise has been to build maps based on these things, that is, to accept it and have fun with it - while on the other hand trying to find a solid platform where to play competetively on.

How good a given town is, depends on the settings, the map size and especially the heroes you can play or not play. Obviously, when you play Tower with random heroes on impossible, and you get Piquedram and find Serena in the Tavern you are royally screwed, no matter what, and the question you can ask is, is it right to allow such a big difference in quality, when you could also get Cyra plus any Alchemist except Piquedram and Josephine.

Does anyone remember the time H3 came out, perchance? The dreaded and deadly Gremlin rush? The heroes came with 50+ Gremlins at the time - and when they would flee from battle you could rehire them with full starting troop contingent. So starting on any other level than Impossible, you'd shed your Gremlins except enough to not be killed in a battle, attack the nearest stack, surrender and rehire. Do that a couple of times, you got a couple hundred Master Gremlins day 1 to blitz everything. Of course you could do that with everyone - Trogs, for example, but obviously MGs, especially in that numbers beat the crap out of everything.
It was fixed, of course - but things CAN be unbalanced, obviously.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 11, 2018 11:14 AM
Edited by monere at 11:26, 11 Sep 2018.

Salamandre said:
Era is wog next generation. About 130 mods, easy to enable and disable, best fun ever as it never runs out of new ideas. If you are into single game and already played vanilla for years, that is for you.


Ok, I will check it out

@Maurice.... I don't care too much about what you have to say, or do... so don't bother warning me cause it doesn't do anyone any good. I am lenient in my attitude, too, but when a born loser (otuken) calls me idiot out of the blue and YOU, as a moderator warn ME, instead of that nuisance of a human.... well, I get triggered.... BADLY.

You wanna see how much I care about your warnings? Go ahead and limit my privileges, or close my account, ban my IP, or whatever your "adulthood" tells you it's right to do. If you ever close my account and/or ban my IP I will just purchase VPN just to create another account... if I'm in the mood to do it. If not, I will never get back to this forum ever again, unless I somehow manage to create the game I'm having in mind and I will come here to take in all of the glory of my awesomeness.

I am piss poor, I have no friends, no money, no life perspectives, no anything basically, and people who have got nothing to lose are the most dangerous ones. So be careful who you're threatening, because I am equally mature and intelligent enough to know NOT to get into meaningless fights with anyone, but when other, supposedly mature and intelligent people (you) threaten me I get triggered and start crying... or worse. If that idiot had called me idiot (which he has) I just let it go (as you can HOPEFULLY see from my replies), but when you, or other people who are in charge and are supposed to see the truth, and they don't see it, are picking on me.... I don't like it.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation of CoC. I honestly had no idea what that meant, nor do I need to know which those rules are, because I'm guiding my entire life after one healthy principle: don't harm others so that others won't harm you. And I think I've been quite faithful to this basic rule so far.

I've had my rant, you do what you think it's best. Just make sure you don't overreact because amazing people like me are rare

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2018 12:17 PM

Popcorn. I receive such warnings every week and even if I'm more amazing than you I just comply, I like order.

Also they have to justify their moderator fancy income.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0851 seconds