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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 10:20 AM |
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Quote:
Most of us in toh don't play dungeon much anymore because of the stalkers ability and new perks ,we consider them overpowered and too easy to play 
HUH??
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 10:22 AM |
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I suggest a QP, a lot of work and it's not some noob-babbling 
Minos are trash, stalkers die right away in the final battle so go with assassins instead so they at least can poison someone before going down, if you really want to use all your army to its maximum potential, reds are good with light warlock, and raiders all tend to die extremely fast and I don't understand why, their stats show they should be tough, but they are not 
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 11:15 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Most of us in toh don't play dungeon much anymore because of the stalkers ability and new perks ,we consider them overpowered and too easy to play
HUH??
I mean most after the talk on mods, we can still play dungeon with each other though
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 11:20 AM |
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How many times did you actually win with dungeon without using hit and runs? 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 11:40 AM |
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Quote:
How many times did you actually win with dungeon without using hit and runs?
ask Betruger The best h5 player if you ask me. Dunno if he still plays, but..
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 11:43 AM |
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He doesnt play anymore. And yes, he used to do in hof what i do in tote on some maps, thats why i dont understand where this "overpoweredness" comes from...
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 26, 2008 04:37 PM |
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Edited by nameless at 16:40, 26 Mar 2008.
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a quick note... will not post pt 2 until tonight as my brain is actually taking in information for tomorrow's midterm so i think i'll use the opportunity, HOWEVER... thank you for your comments and here are some of mine -
i consider furies quite useful in creeping still... of course we all have different ways of doing things... but I suspect we pretty much would have the dungeon hero look the same by week 4 while getting to that point via different routes as it were... so at the end of the day it's probably little more than a matter of personal preference...
that being said, and i will address this tonight, there are week 1 and 2 situations (particularly packs of level 6 with the exception of witches/matrons/mistresses and pit lords, casters in other words) where you may not yet have enough SP and mana (or advanced enough sorcery) to just cast invisibility and finish the neutral off before it wears off.
with the casters you have no choice, you've got to do exactly that. with all others, IMO this is where the furies kick in. 6 stacks of 1 stalker and 22 or 19 furies tucked in in the corner. I usually lose none against a pack of non-caster level 6, and even come away with mana if there isn't a well accessible nearby. i don't always want to waste a turn on DR either, unless absolutely necessary.
cheers!
PS: doomforge, very well said, stalkers definitely are trash for final battle.
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 26, 2008 04:46 PM |
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Quote:
Furies in battle field causes more problems in the creep for now.
Don't be afraid of losses for stalkers while creeping, there's there just to help with creeps, in final battle 5 or 50 doesn't matter, all die in first turn anyway
Oh no, I'm not worried about that.  I just like to have enough for that one power stack to last me through creeping and either eliminate the unnecessary DR pit stops or at least keep them to a minimum.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 26, 2008 05:03 PM |
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Nice post, QP applied. Looking forward to part II. Good luck with the examns.
____________
What will happen now?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 05:09 PM |
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Quote:
stalkers definitely are trash for final battle.
Not true, actually they can eliminate a whole stack of low level creatures.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 08:11 PM |
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yet assassins are better in the end
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 08:21 PM |
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Quote:
How many times did you actually win with dungeon without using hit and runs?
A lot hyhyhy (seriously)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 08:23 PM |
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hey there.. gave up on poker already ?
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 08:26 PM |
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Naaa id doin better evry day. Just came buy to see how things are going but im not quitting poker, ever Fell in love and raping everybody , can be anything better?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 26, 2008 08:27 PM |
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Or stalking the heroes forums is harder to give up on
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
How many times did you actually win with dungeon without using hit and runs?
A lot hyhyhy (seriously)
We were talking about those 2-3 castles maps that you didnt play with dungeon
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 09:26 PM |
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Quote:
Naaa id doin better evry day. Just came buy to see how things are going but im not quitting poker, ever Fell in love and raping everybody , can be anything better?
you mean you play for cash? So it's actually true that you can make a living out of online poker? I wouldn't object that..
Sry for offtopic :<
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 27, 2008 12:48 AM |
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Since its my topic you got my forgiveness Doomforge
Returning to poker, yeah, i play for about 6 months now(had couple months break for exams) and im a winner at stakes $ .5/. When it comes to living off it , well, these are considered to be small stakes and i still can pull off couple hundreds euro/day. I dont even try to imagine what is going to happen when i move up in stakes. Best part is that i didnt put a cent to start whole thing. I won a freeroll to get some cash for starters and kept going from there.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 27, 2008 12:59 AM |
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Was supposed to be .5/1
I have no idea whats going on with this logging thing. I can write as if im logged but it still wants me to put my password, which by the way doesnt work (dont remember it even , just got it remembered by system) and i cant edit things.
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nameless
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 27, 2008 01:21 AM |
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Edited by nameless at 01:31, 27 Mar 2008.
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Dungeon Pt II
Okay, today I was going to dwell on the early creeping, but before we get to that, some of the comments have prompted me to detour (or rather backtrack) a little and revisit the eternal Yrwanna vs Sinitar debate, as well as discourse on the furies a little. I love an intelligent discussion, so please bring your corrections.
While I'm on the topic of corrections, let me make it known that I've really mostly played H5 with my old buddies who have played Heroes with me since, oh, like 1999 or so, when we all got into H3 at the same time while still in high school. All my friends have different preferences from me, as in, no one likes to play Dungeon really... as a result, I have not played against anybody who specializes in Sinitar. I allow that I therefore may not have seen his full potential (although my personal experience says that I have, while mastering him myself, and that he's rather limited). Sinitar abusers, you people please feel free to set me straight (or try to do so, at least).
With that being said, we proceed to Yrwanna vs Sinitar.
The bonuses of taking Yrwanna in ToE are the following three:
- Enlightenment/Intelligence
- 6 more furies than normally
- endgame furies do wicked damage
Of these hands down, Enlightenment/Intelligence rules supreme. When I play Sinitar, I do not always get Enlightenment immediately. There were games (on large maps) when I wouldn't get it period. That's FRUSTRATING. It kills the early creeping, because you're forced to get by hand to mouth with 1 knowledge and are generally lucky to go up to 3 in week 2 without arties. You could say that the arties are there, but it ain't always so. I always choose the artie as my starting bonus but what are the chances it'll be Necromancer's Helm or the deck? If not, and there's none around, you're pretty much screwed and have to get by with what you have.
And what you have is little mana and 6 less furies than you could have had. Unless you get Vayshan/Kythra you have 6+5 from week 1 Blood Arena. 11 furies + 8 more on day 8 if you've left a chain of heroes between your town and your main hero to give him/her that week 2 army. So playing Sinitar without Vayshan/Kythra appearing in your taver in weeks 1-2 you will have 19 furies, with either Vayshan or Kythra 16 furies on day 8, with both Vayshan and Kythra (rare but happens) 13 furies on day 8.
Playing Yrwanna you have without Vayshan/Kythra 25 furies, with Vayshan/Kythra 22 on day 8. Even if the Rare happens and you got one in your tavern in week 1 and the other week 2 you still have 19 furies on day 8.
Now the question is of course, do we really (given the stalkers and invisibility) still need furies in ToE?
I am pretty convinced that we do. But correct me if there's another way.
Here's why I need them. I use Yrwanna's furies (and an increased amount of mana) to creep level 4-6 walkers in weeks 1-2. I call them Power Walkers, PW. By "walkers" I mean anything that doesn't shoot or cast, so things like Wyverns qualify also. Unless I have enough mana and a well nearby, I will dump the power stack of the stalkers off to my garbage hero and surround my furies with 6 stacks of 1, tucking the furies in either a corner or by some obstacle (nothing gladdens me like a log or some other debris on the battlefield in weeks 1-2 against the PW, believe you me).
I also usually have Yrwanna accompanied by the alien hero from week 1, so no stalkers get wasted. But that's just my OCD acting up.
Speaking of OCD, here's how I situate the troops against the PW (O = 1 teal // X - a stack of 1 unit for whom this battle is probably their last) during the first turn (furies must be placed in the corner during the tactics stage so as not to waste their first turn):
OXOXOOOOOOO
XOXOOOOOOOO
FOXOXOOOOOO
It's no secret that most PW's are large creatures. In fact, Djinns, Rakshasa, Raiders, Cavalier, Hell Charger, Nightmare, Wight, Wraith, Unicorn, Wyvern all qualify. Yeah, I'll take my chances with Djinn.
Yrwanna really gives you multiple options here. If you've picked up luck early and visited the adventure luck/morale boosters like the good boy or girl that you are, your furies will be getting more turns and likely do double damage at least once but often enough twice that you can almost count on it. It takes the PW who will usually be split in 4 stacks two turns to reach the outer rim, which is
OXOXOOOOOOO
XOXOOOOOOOO
FOXOXOOOOOO
and once those guys die, you replace them with those who had stayed inside, so now it looks like this:
OXOXOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
FOOOXOOOOOO
With any luck, the furies will go at least 6 times before anything happens, and Yrwanna will either take shots or cast spells as often. If you have field obstacles on your side, you'll have even more time at your disposal. This is a really painless way of creeping the PW's in week 2, often enough not even wasting much mana, claiming every mine/artie/resource in your way, and building up your hero. By week 3 Yrwanna usually has 10-12 SP and 60-100 mana. Then you refill that mana once, either via well or DR, and you're set for all of week 3, keeping the furies out and killing everyone with the spells.
This is really how I've always done it... If there's a better way to creep the PW's in week 2 please let me know. This strategy has never failed me on large maps, and I am always where I want to be in week 4, and that is 150+ mana, ~20 SP, ~10 offense, ~10 defense on a so-so rich map, and I nearly always have the right skills. I don't know if it's just my luck, but with Yrwanna I usually get offered the luck skill early, so we're talking wizard's luck also.
But we'll talk about the right skills tomorrow.
Me go study now. In the meantime educate me, and let me know what you think.
yours,
Nameless
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This thread is pages long: 
