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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted May 17, 2008 12:41 PM |
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Quote:
I don't know if it's just me... I do think Sinitar is better to use than Yrwanna. I think Sinitar is faster and Yrwanna is a bit slow in terms of building the skills. With Basic Destructive, I can creep fast with Sinitar. I still do not understand why you guys say Yrwanna is faster. Maybe I misunderstood that part. I guess I should use Yrwanna more so I would know what is this 'fast' thing about her means. 
Also, I want to try the 'other side' of Dungeon, the might part. Lately I got tired of doing the conventional way. It seems very predictable and my opponents can counter easily. But still I know that the might Dungeon way can not guarantee free a win. I just want to try it. I do feel good when learning new things. I think I had browsed this thread and I haven't found some post about the might way's creeping and build or if there's any I must've missed it.
If anybody can share me these things about the might way:
- creatures used in creeping
- spells used in creeping
- heroes used
- hero's build in different map sizes
- some tips for final battles
I hope I'm not asking too much. Just give me some ideas, coz I really know 0 about this.
-creatures used in creeping - everything you get your hands upon. basically stalkers/assassins, furies are your core of the army
-spells used in creeping: haste and regeneration
-heroes used - all of them can have a might build. I prefer Sorgal though and Eruina
hero's build- one magic school, enlightenment, attack. this is the core. From here you can take almost anything, luck, leadership, defense, warmachines, they are all useful.
some tips for final battles - you have high attack and initiative. use them by taking a sylvan-like approach, hit fast, hit hard
btw, how are you guys doing?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 17, 2008 12:49 PM |
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Hey he's alive! I have been playing random lately but otherwise improving my skills 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted May 17, 2008 12:53 PM |
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Hehe, cool, random is a nice way to improve your skills 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 17, 2008 01:08 PM |
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I still don't feel confident about inferno and dwarves  But that is to be expected, I have played them the least times and I'm not really interested in them.
Rat race is a good map for trying them, easier earlygame than others.
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2008 07:26 PM |
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I would like to add something about might dungeon, about red dragon.
How to use a might dungeon with red dragon is somehow very similar with using inferno.
Red dragon is somehow one of the most tricky creature (because of its incinerate).
Most of dungeon player will 80% pick black dragon (including me), but after i realize how powerful red dragon is, i begin to think higher about this awesome creature.
Most people pick BD because of its immunities from dark, second, red dragon incinerate require a good trick to become a very powerful bility. Indeed with high morale, haste spell, slow, puppet master, blind, and teleport assault, it is easy to use incinerate, but without those, it is very tricky.
High lv dark spells are rarely offered in dungeon's mage guild. Morale means kythra, because leadership is rarely offered to all dungeon heroes. As for haste, we can get it asap from power of speed. Teleport assault means that we waste our hero turn to cast offensive spell, but sometimes, it's better to incinerate asap than to cast a destructive spell, but beware, incinerating in red dragon's first turn means we lose the chance to breath attack, i usually aim for any possible breath attack in my red dragon's first turn, if there is no possible breath attack, then it's better to TA+incinerate or cast a spell.
Now,how useful incinerate without those? If you understand the trick, it can become as useful as with those things.
As almost all creature that go one on one with red dragon is always defeated (except magma dragon), so why not use this advantage.
As incinerate stack with luck, one lucky incinerate can completely annihilate another lv 7 creatures of equal number with the red dragon.
Somehow, i found out that in attacking and defending position, incinerate can be very useful. In defending, we place our most targeted creature (furies and riders) near red dragon, any melee attacker that approach those two must be very careful, or they will dissapear immediately (get incinerated).
In attacking position, we can easily create a situation that enemy creature will have no choice but to approach red dragon and we can protect melee frontal fighter like riders, minotaur, hyrda, etc by placing them near red dragon, thus increasing our possibilities to incinerate.
So, with red dragon, we can control enemy movement easily, it's like that we control/steer the battlefield entirely. If you play not rusher inferno a lot, you will learn this trick easier. Controling most of our enemy movements is one of the most poweful strategy.
Our only goal is to make red dragon incinerate his enemies each turn. With 5 or more luck and right creature placing, you will find that this creature is indeed one of the mightiest creature in heroes 5. But beware of puppet master, frenzy, and slow, slow will highly reduce our chance to incinerate, but it's still highly possible if we can create the above attacking situation.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 09:30 AM |
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The problem is, your red dragons have 0 defense, you might not be able to incinerate anything after they got hit .i take 100% red dragons if i got light spells and for its extra initiative.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 18, 2008 10:54 AM |
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Played a game with a buddy of mine. He picked Dungeon/Sinitar and I went random; ended up getting Dungeon/Lethos. What was worse was I didn't have a Warlock in my tavern. Map we're playing had 4 Dungeon towns.
And I cried a little to myself. Conventional wisdom was that Lethos sucked. And I was crying while I upgraded my stalkers and crying up until my first fight where all 4 stacks of creeps started the fight being decayed.
Sometimes things are so obvious they make me want to smack my head and say, "Of course! How obvious!"
Case in point, Lethos has a poor man's ignite from the get go. Free decays, mass decay, and stalker invis conspire to kill creatures quickly and efficiently. Decay damage is earth, so your slippers juice up something else besides Stone Spikes, Showers, and Implos. Gotta be careful though, creeps like mages like to dispel, zealots will purge it from each other, and so on and so forth.
I've went Destructive/Ignite with him and was just watching stupid amounts of creeps dying horrible deaths while my stack of 8 stalkers just sat back and chuckled.
And of course since I like to use Ignited Fireballs/Walls, and Mass Decay, that means I'm was gonna need Sorc for Arcane Training and Erratic Mana. He's level 21 now and has yet to be offered Enlightenment.
So my buddy thought he was reinventing the wheel and rushed one of my border towns with Sinitar with a horde of stalkers and a pack of invisi-witches. He had no idea who my main was. Lethos shackled him, got 4 of his 7 stacks to be poisoned (he likes to spread them out), and blew the crap out of him.
Good times.
Oh, and the moral of this story? Lethos doesn't suck. Far from it. He's really, really, I mean, really good.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 10:56 AM |
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Quote:
The problem is, your red dragons have 0 defense, you might not be able to incinerate anything after they got hit .i take 100% red dragons if i got light spells and for its extra initiative.
With correct unit placing, it can be minimalized. And ofc never send red dragon to the front alone.
Well, my problem is not that they can't incinerate because they die before having the chance to do it, but my enemy's armies is already reduced to a number that is not effective to be incinerated, sometimes it's already defeated.
Yup, 1 initiative is a significant difference, it can decide whether it is a breath attack or not.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 18, 2008 11:16 AM |
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Good game Gootch 
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 12:15 PM |
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Well, i dunno how many times i said it, but all dungeon heroes are good, and i mean all. Given time to develop, Kythra and Lethos are the most scary of them. Lethos can be used in a very nice might way with only dark(no destructive at all) if the map has utopia or spell shop. If you play careful and know what you're doing you dont even need spellshop or utopia. Eagle eye is your best friend. Have it in 100% of the games
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 18, 2008 01:12 PM |
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Out of curiosety:
How the heck does sacrifice alter really work?
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 18, 2008 06:36 PM |
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Quote:
Careful and know what you're doing....
Love Kythra/Empathy. However, I have yet to put together an awesome might oriented Dungeon. I still lose troops here and there when I creep. Power of Speed is nice, but while it is awesome for final battles, all it's doing is helping me to lose my troops a little quicker while I'm creeping.
Now going pure dark with Eagle Eye. There's a gleam in this post that suggests you know something the rest of us mere mortals don't. What Dark spells are available to learn? Didn't they make it so you can learn spells from your own troops again? In that case, the invisi-witches can teach slow, confusion, and vulnerability. But that's relatively common knowledge though.
The real question then becomes, can you learn the spells they cast with their whip strike? Because if you can, we're talking a free week 2-3 Frenzy, aren't we?
Still puzzling over where to find Blind and Puppet Master at places that don't involve Shops, Utopias, Mage Vaults, or Pyramids. Alternate succubis have a kind of PM and unicorns have blind but aren't those innate abilities and not spells? Hmmmm.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 07:00 PM |
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Yup, raining down destructive magic is easier and simpler than using power of speed or dark magic.
Early games, the problem is not power of speed or dark magic, it's because tier 1-3 dungeon creatures have a very low growth. It's nice if minotaur growth is a few more higher than how it should.
Might dungeon may survive in hard difficulty with randomize heroes, but in heroic? you will be doomed if you try might dungeon (i mean without destructive). What will you use? Stalker and furies alone is not enough, even covered with slow, weakness, suffering, haste, regeneration, etc. Sure, a minotaur guard is very nice addition (attacking twice), stalker has high initiative, it can steal retaliation for minotaur guard, but it's still not enough for heroic. My only option is summoning magic, aim for fire warriors asap. But we face the same problem as dark magic, using dark magic, our chance to get high lv dark magic spell is slim, using summoning, our chance to get summoning magic (not the spell) is slim.
There is no other path than destructive in heroic.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 18, 2008 07:07 PM |
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I strongly disagree.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 18, 2008 07:09 PM |
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I think Dungeon's Irresistable Magic ability is too overpowered. I did the "Hate Breeds hate" scenario yestarday and I was able to destroy two enormous armies of Dwarves (together 100 Shieldguards, 500 Spearwielders, 450 Blackbear Riders, 420 Berserkers, 350 Rune Patriarchs, 50 Flame Lords and 11 Magma Dragon) versus my tiny dungeon army (60 Stalkers, 50 Blood Sisters, 89 Minotaur Captains, 20 Grim Raiders (the pink ones), 75 Foul Hydras (the orange ones), 40 Shadow Matriarchs and 9 Red Dragons.) I only managed to defeat them due to the already overpowered Luck skill, but my Hero (Agbeth) also had expert Dark Magic (no perks), Advanced Destructive (no perks) and Expert War Machines (Ballista - Tripple Ballista and Catapult). I managed to defeat the two armies by confusing the Rune Patriarchs and constantly killing the Bears and Berserkers with Circle of Winter. These were the only spells I used, all the other enemies were defeated by brute force. I still had 40 Matriarchs, 60 Minos and 50 Hydra's left when I won... Dungeon is completely IMBA
(I mean, Circle of Winter did at Advanced mastery, without Master of Ice 426 dammage; Completely insane !). Really, Luck, War Machines and Destructive are already as IMBA as they can get, but as a Warlock's skill they even are more powerfull than ever...
The whole faction is just insane...
And oh, after these two battles, a third Dwarven army as great as the two armies together popped up and destroyed me completely (I lost  ). Frustrating it is, losing with such an IMBA faction, but at least I kicked some @$$ before losing (I'm gonna try this again today, and I hope to win this time  )
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 18, 2008 07:10 PM |
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I don't see what the problem is. Even without destructive you still have the spells with pretty good spellpower, you just can't touch lots of tier 7 by week 2
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 07:37 PM |
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The problem is in heroic large maps, or bigger. Try most big maps with few chest early.
In heroic, no war machine inferno can beat dark/light dungeon creeping speed, unless that inferno doesn't have adv gating.
Slow dungeon will be hit really hard in late game. Dungeon armies won't stand a chance againts might faction, thanks to its low number, red dragon is a better fighter againts might faction, but even with his help, dungeon will never stand a good chance.
There are no problems in hard, but in heroic, destructive path is far more faster and safer than dark/light, however, summoning dungeon is not that bad.
No war machine inferno can save almost all of its imps by sacrificing demons (even if they extinc), lots of stong caster can be cleared as fast as no destructive dungeon.
With low mana (because it's drained by imps), no strong dark or light spells, equal lv, and equal creature number, it's a very hard day for dungeon.
No war machine inferno is one of the slowest creeper in the game, still, it can become as fast as dark/light dungeon.
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted May 18, 2008 07:42 PM |
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Quote:
The real question then becomes, can you learn the spells they cast with their whip strike? Because if you can, we're talking a free week 2-3 Frenzy, aren't we?
I believe you can. If you can learn spell from Earth Daughter´s Withering Attack, than it should be possible to get from Whip Strike too. Not 100% sure though.
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Result matters
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Even if it's possible, learning it from mage guild is faster.
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted May 18, 2008 08:11 PM |
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Quote:
Even if it's possible, learning it from mage guild is faster.
But Dungeon doesn´t have Dark Magic in Mage Guild, so no Frenzy from your town - you will depend on map and luck with town/guild.
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Result matters
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