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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered
Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2007 03:37 PM

It's possible on how many maps.. 1? Double castle maps with an external tier3 dwelling only. Try to play peninsula with Ossir, you'll understand..

Maybe u don't understand the true power of those hunters What other heroes like victorio/havez can do, ossir can mostly do the same, only deleb seems special in peninsula since she can take the sea early.
But peninsula is a war machine map anyways.
If you only play map = peninsula, then i guess u will have different concept on races


Dwarf heroes aren't as good as dungeon hero, yet troops are not as good as haven's and sylvan's, its just a good mix. Surely not a walking god

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2007 03:42 PM

Hehe of course the topics name is an exaggeration. This race isn't fully discovered yet but certainly it has big potential.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 07, 2007 03:56 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:56, 07 May 2007.

Quote:
Maybe u don't understand the true power of those hunters What other heroes like victorio/havez can do, ossir can mostly do the same, only deleb seems special in peninsula since she can take the sea early.
But peninsula is a war machine map anyways.
If you only play map = peninsula, then i guess u will have different concept on races


I play different maps and surely "understand" the power of hunters when neutral hunters act first due to randomness in ATB and wash away half of my hunters in their first move. Yeah, so encouraging to use them at creeping Sometimes they attack my sprite/dancer baits, but sometimes not, and I have no clue why.

any tips?

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2007 06:05 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Maybe u don't understand the true power of those hunters What other heroes like victorio/havez can do, ossir can mostly do the same, only deleb seems special in peninsula since she can take the sea early.
But peninsula is a war machine map anyways.
If you only play map = peninsula, then i guess u will have different concept on races


I play different maps and surely "understand" the power of hunters when neutral hunters act first due to randomness in ATB and wash away half of my hunters in their first move. Yeah, so encouraging to use them at creeping Sometimes they attack my sprite/dancer baits, but sometimes not, and I have no clue why.

any tips?


If your bait is lesser hitpoints than the damage that the range unit will do, they tend to attack the hunters. If they can't clear the stack on your bait, they will attack the bait.. so far it works fine :
If there is any taking military post.. i think 4 druids and 3 sprites can do job nicely with imbue arrow with a level 9-10 hero.
Try to leave hunters out in case got struck by lighting ..

But you're right, druid elders and archmages is too hard for them with no hunter losses even in week2, but ingvar is hard to take them on also without some losses?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 07, 2007 06:50 PM

I guess ingvar will lose a bit (a large bit :X) too, but fortunately for him, he loses level 1 units. And while they can be surprisingly good when kept healthy until the final battle, fortress can do well without them. And hunters are too precious to lose them to dumb creeps!

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2007 09:00 AM

Quote:
I guess ingvar will lose a bit (a large bit :X) too, but fortunately for him, he loses level 1 units. And while they can be surprisingly good when kept healthy until the final battle, fortress can do well without them. And hunters are too precious to lose them to dumb creeps!


Actually i was figuring out how to take out squires and golems without much losses and not use up the runes in early week 1..
Without ingvar preferably.. i find life hard without his 100+ shieldguards or war machines.
Creeping is really hard for them though i feel
Any tips and screenshots?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 08, 2007 10:05 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:05, 08 May 2007.

Hmm. Bear riders, perhaps? Almost certain stun. Works well if the enemy is in 1-2 stacks.. Crippling wound may become useful here aswell.

I also think some runes are necessary in that case - rune of berserking and rune of charge for shieldguards, namely. That saves a lot of them..


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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2007 10:11 AM

Quote:
Hmm. Bear riders, perhaps? Almost certain stun. Works well if the enemy is in 1-2 stacks.. Crippling wound may become useful here aswell.

I also think some runes are necessary in that case - rune of berserking and rune of charge for shieldguards, namely. That saves a lot of them..




Do u mean paw strike ? I thought only the upgraded version has it ?
Rune of charge is nice But those damn rune priests needed so much resources, need to save up for them
Or are they important for fortress anyway?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 08, 2007 11:20 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 11:21, 08 May 2007.

I think they are not worth it, unless the map is very rich.

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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2007 10:26 PM

Skip those priests if that is necessary for dragons and warlords

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted May 09, 2007 01:52 PM

You keep saying: I use defenders to creep! They are great ! Only them!

I use a more slow tactic: Ammo Cart + Skirmishers - This is a slow and make battles longer then normal rush tactic! But you place your Defenders in front, maybe around skirmishers and then just fire away with those Spears!! This is slow but it reduces your losses, especially if you get crippling wound.

And preparation is great little perk, I never tried a so defensive technique to just defend. But why not? They can manage it .. Still i wont use it, only for Defenders (they are protecting shooters) Rest are rushing out to rip of heads! But Preparation is more a safety, a little life saviour that you might only need 20% of the time. Just like safetybelt saves life in trafic this can save HUGE losses ...
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 09, 2007 02:01 PM

Quote:
And preparation is great little perk, I never tried a so ...


Hmmm

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted May 09, 2007 05:17 PM

Quote:
Quote:
And preparation is great little perk, I never tried a so ...


Hmmm


Err? Read the thing behind it. I was trying to say: I Normally use a defend tactic where i just DEFEND . and let preparation do the fight- But it could work
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.

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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted May 10, 2007 08:03 PM

Having attempted a few runs with the dwarves also now, I have found a build that suits my style.  It seems to do well for me.

So here it is.  

Exp Rune Lore -- Greater Rune, Refresh Rune

Exp War Machines -- Ballista, runic war machines, triple ballista

Exp Destructive Magic -- Master of Fire, Ignite

Exp Offense -- Battle Frenzy

Exp Enlightenment -- Intelligence

Adv Defense -- Vitality


This will work with just about any dwarven hero, which is why it works for me I guess.  I like to play all of them.  War Machines I will take as priority over everything.  I find the creeping with war machines infintely easier with the dwarves, until such time I use the ammo cart/spear chucker approach surronded by defenders.  If I am not Ingvar I find the defenders drop like flies.

Obviously this is a more aggressive rune lord build.  My basic idea for the late game is to use runes (charge, berserking, ect ect) To decimate enemies and keep them on their side, with destructive magic support, hopefully fireball to dmg armor, cause ignites and then poke holes in them with triple ballista on an armor reduced target.

Obviously I would like to have offensive formation, and exp armor, however this build assumes that by a final combat you will be approximately level 23 and thus can achieve this skill set.

As for the town itself.. bleh what a nightmare to build.  I originally thought that rune priests were pretty much nessecity, since my mind has been changed.. I will build them on maps that allow it, but it doesn't keep me up at night if I have to skip them either.   I hate fighting patriarchs as neutrals soo much I assumed they must be an amazing unit!  And although great for mid game creeping they are expendable.  Warlords, Bears, Berserkers are your killing machines, and to a lesser extent dragons.

For heroes I like the creature specialists.  If I have Karli as an option I will substitue a skill usually defense or enlightenment for his luck.  Ebba is ideal here, although ingvar is perfectly fine also.  


I don't have tons of exp with this faction yet so feel free to pick this apart.  It works for me, it might not for you

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted May 10, 2007 08:58 PM

But it may not work if enemy uses dark magic. So, IMO drop something, go for light and crush the enemy with master of wrath.
____________

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted May 10, 2007 10:15 PM

Quote:
But it may not work if enemy uses dark magic. So, IMO drop something, go for light and crush the enemy with master of wrath.


Yes Light magic rocks with Dwarves!! I wil always choose Light over destrucktion
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 14, 2007 01:32 PM

Ive updated my first post with recent discoveries. I think this will be my last update of the guide for quite long so feel free to add your strategies.

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nickkkk
nickkkk


Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
posted May 15, 2007 07:02 PM
Edited by nickkkk at 19:04, 15 May 2007.

I notticed that these little dwarves do a lot of damage and the runes are absolutely amazing. Let us say that the berseker is enhanced with three runes: speed, ressurection, incorporability and another one when you want to hit them with magic the magic returns on your head, I don.t know the name exactly, then everybody is dead. I personally like the speed rune and the bersekering rune, with these and let's say for example blackbear riders and Warlords, then everyone will tremble.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 15, 2007 08:08 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 20:16, 15 May 2007.

Oh i just saw you are having problems with golems and stuff. For first week you can use tactics i described in main post, the one with Defenders and Spearwielders. Just remember that instead of attacking with defenders its often better to move away and hit them with retaliation strike. Watch out for bash tho, squires may be better to take of without running. Use magic extensively. Ive noticed that even if you don't have destruction magic skill your spell still deal considerably high damage to decrease your loses in first week. Obviously you will lose quite a lot, with extensive creeping you may even lose about half of them but in week 2 you will get reinforcements and your hero will be higher lvl so it will be only better. Dont mind losing some defenders to early creeping it pays of as long as you don't lose your creeping potential after attacking certain creep.

War machines obviously would be great to avoid loses but i have the feeling that they are not needed. Perhaps on small one castle maps they might be good but for double castle maps they are redundant.

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted May 18, 2007 02:08 PM

My normal build for large maps is
light - all 3 mass
destructive - master of fire - ignite
war machines - ballista, runic machines
Expert attack - tactics - battle frenzy
englightment - intelligence

Town build, forget all the rune priests normally..

War machines can be skipped for ingvar since he has amazing suriving rate with the defenders.. But the rest of the heroes will really find life hard in creeping.
Example.. day 1 - 2, u meet squires and golems  it can be really hard to fight them without destructive or war machines.
The "tactics" can be really useful with fortress, since first turn runes for war lords and bear riders, u don't need to waste on rune of charge to go to troops of your choice, and would be nicer if heroes turn is directly before your war lords or bear riders...
Master of fire to -50% defence before the war lords do the rune of berserking can do really crazy damage and might be more effective than mass haste or r.might in some cases...


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