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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered
Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted February 14, 2008 04:10 PM

You definitely can't creep as fast but on the other hand a runemage at a good level with upgraded units is really a tough foe. Maybe Nival planned that or did they not even imagine the other factions' creeping potential?
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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 14, 2008 04:10 PM
Edited by Drunk_Lord at 16:12, 14 Feb 2008.

@Doomforge
First, I'm sorry if I didn't get what u meant, I'm not-so-bright english-speaker Now lets asume that I got what u meant right There's no need with rush for Fortress(99% of the times). There's need to prevent the others from rushing u If I don't get rushed I just execute the strategy I want(with this two I've submitted its quite easier because u need less XP) and have fun in end of midgame\lategame.
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Ebbafan
Ebbafan


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 14, 2008 06:00 PM

hey Drunk_lord, that was a great post on dwarves! now if only Wolverine could lead the berserkers on Ashan!

King Wulfstan: Hangvul, the demon hordes are preparing to erupt from the abyss once more, this time we will not have the aid of Freyda or Gotai, we must take advantage of the Outerworld Gates to find aid from without.

Hangvul: Fear not my thane, I have scryed far and away, and with the help of Arkath himself, have located a world called Earth. In the land of the Americas resides a berserker hero whose bones are laced with the strongest of alloys, precious adamantium! His fighting skill is legendary as is his recuperation abilities. I will attempt to contact him and bring him to our side.

King Wulfstan: Have you been drinking Hangvul? You are a priest now, you know. What will you tell me next, that there are heroes out there that can fly or ignite themselves. Hehehe<loud guffaws from all in the throne room>

Hangvul: Nay my liege, this hero does exist and is called Wolverine. More beast than man, he would be the ideal leader for our elite slayer faction. But we must test him first. Please dispatch a messenger to the far north to seek out Ebba.

King Wulfstan: Ebba!!! Our very own bear mistress? Surely you jest, as well use a hammer to smite a fly. Even if we were to contact her she would most likely be to busy breeding stronger bears and training the bear riders.

Hangvul: Ebba and Wolverine are kindred spirits my liege. If we allow them to meet our chances of winning him over to our side is greater. Also Wolverine is part of a group of heroes who will surely realize the justness of our cause.

King Wulfstan: Alright Hangvul, I give you leave to attend to this matter. But when things go amuck and Arkath appears again...just remember, he's talking to you!

Hangvul: Looks like I'll just have to "bear" it.
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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 14, 2008 06:06 PM

hmm, which post do u speak of(I'm just too drunk, u know Wulf opinion on that ) And it seems that Hangvul has to fight many "bear" things recently...  
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Orodruin
Orodruin


Adventuring Hero
posted February 14, 2008 06:56 PM
Edited by Orodruin at 19:02, 14 Feb 2008.

Fortress is not good at creeping in the early game but when we talk abou runes it's another matter. They've made rune magic too strong but not enough to make Fortress unbeatable, for they're mainly a might faction and lack some fast units other races have.

The defender is the best defensive unit in the game (relatively speaking). The second tier units are fair shotters that could have some more HP (also it's difficult to find utility for that harppon strike) . Black Bear Riders are amongst the best tier 3 meele attackers. Bersekers are strong but lack defense, rune Priests I think that mark of fire ability and firewall explains it all,  thanes are best tier 6, and dragons may be slow but do great damage and fire shield is awesome  On the whole it's firefirefire!!!  

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Anakrom
Anakrom


Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
posted February 14, 2008 09:21 PM

Quote:
Leaving it to your opponent is perhaps the way of playing this faction.


It is. Ofc your level will be lower than opponents - but in case that he will make some mistakes, lose some creatures during rushing through guards or will be forced to return to base, it buys you time, resources-runes and creatures. Your only problem is level, rest helps you to take advantage over opponent.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted February 14, 2008 09:33 PM

Quote:


(also it's difficult to find utility for that harppon strike) .  


I like to drag attackers into the moat with it during a siege, very handy if they decide to stand right in front of it waiting until the walls go down

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 15, 2008 02:40 PM

Here's a lovely story with harpoon strike now:First a small bumbers of patrriarch cast firewall. Then I used the harpoon strike to drag a unit from the firewall and this positioned in such way that I used firebreath to hit 2 units. After that the riders charge and return the unit on the firewall
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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted February 15, 2008 02:54 PM

Quote:
Fortress is not good at creeping in the early game but when we talk abou runes it's another matter. They've made rune magic too strong but not enough to make Fortress unbeatable, for they're mainly a might faction and lack some fast units other races have.

The defender is the best defensive unit in the game (relatively speaking). The second tier units are fair shotters that could have some more HP (also it's difficult to find utility for that harppon strike) . Black Bear Riders are amongst the best tier 3 meele attackers. Bersekers are strong but lack defense, rune Priests I think that mark of fire ability and firewall explains it all,  thanes are best tier 6, and dragons may be slow but do great damage and fire shield is awesome  On the whole it's firefirefire!!!  


Harpoon strike: try it when you're defending a castle, you can drag enemy units on the runes in front of your walls and make them blow up
You can also setup a firewall or land mines, pretty fun

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Drunk_Lord
Drunk_Lord


Known Hero
very happy hero :)
posted February 15, 2008 03:45 PM
Edited by Drunk_Lord at 15:46, 15 Feb 2008.

Runic strategies and combos

Lately Iíd played Fortress a bit more than the other factions and I also played vs Fortress in some games. And the thing that amazed me is that many people just use the runes without thinking. So Iíve decided to submit some of my ďrunic strategiesĒ. I didnít want to start a new topic, so I posted here
P.S. seems retribution is my favorite skill with the dwarves

Rune of Magic Control
Definitely good vs Light casters. Likely u get destructive or summoning. Just leave ur enemy casts his light, then pump him stealing his own buff A real boost for this is leadership and runic attunement. Retribution is very nice too. Enlightenment is also very nice with destructive and may cause serious devastation
Just steal the first mass buff(the better buffer he is, the better for u) and have fun. Itís like using light and destructive at the same time. Summoning is not a bad choice either.

Rune of Thunderclap
Itís a very nice rune if used right. Getting light magic-Master of Wrath(mass haste big time) + morale + runic attunement.  Retribution again a nice pick. Itís nice to have preparation too. So just use the rune + mass haste, big morale and soldierís luck. In one action this gives u many chances to trigger the rune, next when the enemy is stunned with ur supreme ATB boosters(init and morale) u get supreme

P.S. Can u tell me does Rune of Thunderclap stack with Rune of Battle Rage?

Rune of Dragonform.
Luck, Leadership, Attack, Light magic, Enlightenment are the components. Now the perks are: Retribution, Div. Guidance, Wrath and Abjuration. All on exp lvl of course. So now enter battle and use the rune. With the bonuses from enlightenment and mass spells uíll get crazy amount of primary stats

ATTENTION: THE NEXT COMBO IS AN OVERKILL AND WILL BE PROBABBLY BANNED SOON FROM MP
Rune of Battle Rage + Rune of Berserking
The total dwarven overkill.
Attack-Retribution
Leadership-runic attunement and div. guidance
Luck-well, if u canít think what is the primary use of luck, uíre an official moron
Light magic-Masters of Wrath and Blessings
Hasten ur units and combine the runes. Luck and retribution will deal crazy damage. And now itís time to send the thanes into the middle of the enemy army and destroy the opponent in one turn

These are my favorites. There are more, maybe much more
Now I'm trying to combine some other runes
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Anakrom
Anakrom


Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
posted February 16, 2008 10:34 AM

Quote:

Rune of Magic Control
Likely u get destructive or summoning.


Not 95% of the time. Light just rocks with the Dwarves, try to play with high level Helmar. Rune of Control is mostly waste of rune, because you can cast mass buff and use Rune of Battle Rage/Rune of Ressurection + Refresh.
Quote:

Rune of Thunderclap
Itís a very nice rune if used right. In one action this gives u many chances to trigger the rune, next when the enemy is stunned with ur supreme ATB boosters(init and morale) u get supreme


Rune of Thunderclap (Fourth Circle): Creature will have chance to inflict Thunderclap effect on the enemy attack once. The target will lose its initiative.  1 wood, 1 mercury
You will have chance to stun until Rune is triggered, so no "keep īem stunned".
Quote:

P.S. Can u tell me does Rune of Thunderclap stack with Rune of Battle Rage?


Yes, but you will have to use Rune of Thunderclap, and next turn Rune of Battle Rage - and it will stun only one creature anyway.
Quote:

Rune of Dragonform.
Luck, Leadership, Attack, Light magic, Enlightenment are the components. Now the perks are: Retribution, Div. Guidance, Wrath and Abjuration. All on exp lvl of course. So now enter battle and use the rune. With the bonuses from enlightenment and mass spells uíll get crazy amount of primary stats


Rune of Dragonform gives bonus to attack and defence depandant on BASIC stats of the creature - so Thane gets +15/+24 no matter how high your stats are from spells and Enlightenment.
Quote:

ATTENTION: THE NEXT COMBO IS AN OVERKILL AND WILL BE PROBABBLY BANNED SOON FROM MP
Rune of Battle Rage + Rune of Berserking
The total dwarven overkill.
Attack-Retribution
Leadership-runic attunement and div. guidance
Luck-well, if u canít think what is the primary use of luck, uíre an official moron
Light magic-Masters of Wrath and Blessings
Hasten ur units and combine the runes. Luck and retribution will deal crazy damage. And now itís time to send the thanes into the middle of the enemy army and destroy the opponent in one turn


Assuming to your chosen skills, it is going to be medium/large map. Everyone know that Dwarves are stronger as game lasts longer. Rune of Berserking + Rune of Battlerage are nice - but it works mostly with Thunder Thanes (init 10) and you will have to use Berserking Rune first, but - it works only if some Thanes already died. Really big. Skill Tree is Might-Dwarves, which I personally like, but I donīt use Leadership. Defence is maybe useless for Dungeon or Inferno, but I canīt imagine faction, that needs it more than Fortress. And Logistics are obvious pick, if they pop-up (pray for that). So Attack, Defence, Light Magic, Luck, and Logistics are in my opinion way to go.
And to that overkill statement - try to play game against late game Haven - Palas will kill your Thanes in first turn and you will definately donīt have time to cross field and use Runes in back rows. This strategy works only late game - so most factions will rush you, and only factions that will wait is Haven, Sylvan and another Fortress. And I doubt that will be easy.
But since you are active in playing Fortess, try to find solution against rushing, I will be glad for that.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted February 16, 2008 10:45 AM

The thunderclap strategy won't work, you need to keep refreshing the runes and you can do that for only a unit at a time. About the berserking and battlerage combo it's pretty much known but you can't depend on that, you won't have the time.
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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted June 26, 2008 12:26 PM
Edited by ChaosDragon at 12:33, 26 Jun 2008.

I don't know if i must create a new thread for this, but this thread is not too old, and it's still 8 pages long, so i want to add something.

Lately i've been playing as dwarf a lot.

Quote:
Assuming to your chosen skills, it is going to be medium/large map. Everyone know that Dwarves are stronger as game lasts longer. Rune of Berserking + Rune of Battlerage are nice - but it works mostly with Thunder Thanes (init 10) and you will have to use Berserking Rune first, but - it works only if some Thanes already died. Really big. Skill Tree is Might-Dwarves, which I personally like, but I donīt use Leadership. Defence is maybe useless for Dungeon or Inferno, but I canīt imagine faction, that needs it more than Fortress. And Logistics are obvious pick, if they pop-up (pray for that). So Attack, Defence, Light Magic, Luck, and Logistics are in my opinion way to go.
And to that overkill statement - try to play game against late game Haven - Palas will kill your Thanes in first turn and you will definately donīt have time to cross field and use Runes in back rows. This strategy works only late game - so most factions will rush you, and only factions that will wait is Haven, Sylvan and another Fortress. And I doubt that will be easy.
But since you are active in playing Fortess, try to find solution against rushing, I will be glad for that.


Since Thanatos final build is very very similar like mine. I want to comment about this.

Actually, what Thanatos said is right.

This build is not only for late game, you can complete it at lv 17.

Things that you need is only retribution and especially runic atunement + divine guidance, and finally master of your preference from light magic.

First thing first, get defence to ease the creeping, aim for vitality + power of endurance. The final slot goes to enlightment, or you can take luck, but imo enlightment is better, since dwarf units is slow, it will mostly get attacked first before they act, so enlightment is better, besides, you can get luck via arties or another way.

In late game, that build has insane attack power, and its defence is superb, initiative is never a problem, mass haste+divine guidance, then activate your rune of choice, strike hard at your enemy. Dwarf imo is the strongest in late game, i won twice in a row againts late game sylvan, its first strike of oblivion hardly ever work againts dwarf. It's because dwarf units have insane growth, boosted with perks and runes, they laugh at its first strike.

About runes, the combo really are too relative, depends on many situation, i'm sure even newbie dwarf will knew how to use rune magic.

About creeping, there are many method, still, dwarf is the only faction that can hold againts another faction that has hero 10 lv higher than him, dwarf only need to get all mines and complete the most crucial build, usually lv 17 or lv 20, then they already invincible.

I hate dwarf because their heroes are too slow (logistic chance is 2%), a good player would quickly harass dwarf region asap, taking its resources and mines, then the dwarf is too crippled to recover, that's the easiest way to defeat dwarf.

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espen15
espen15


Famous Hero
posted June 28, 2008 12:50 PM

wulfstan has assume troop defending special maby yeah dwarven road is being overpowered.

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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted June 28, 2008 02:13 PM
Edited by ChaosDragon at 14:21, 28 Jun 2008.

Againts some faction, this faction is indeed OP.

But not if its teritory is harassed very early.

This faction is too OP againts necro. Sylvan has a hard time againts this too. Surprisingly, Inferno will often win againts this if the battle take place outside the castle, Dungeon, if it take the might route, it has no hope, the summoning route also worthless againts this faction, however, destruction route surprisingly the best againts this, dark is also good, still the dwarf may also take dark magic too, Dark magic is the fastest and cheapest creeping method for dwarf. Last time i play againts orc, the dwarf win easily.

Rune of beserking and rune of charge is a joke to be tier 1 rune. This two are too overkill to be a tier 1 rune.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted June 28, 2008 02:45 PM

I don't play dwarves, but i played against them a few times and don't remember ever loosing against them. They have hard time against attack oriented factions like inferno, orc or dungeon. a pretty balanced (and exciting) situation is against academy, haven or sylvan.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted June 28, 2008 09:11 PM

Quote:


Since Thanatos final build is very very similar like mine. I want to comment about this.

Actually, what Thanatos said is right.



I have nothing to add to your story but it's not my build, I think you mean Drunk_Lords


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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted June 29, 2008 05:44 AM

@Thanatos
oops sorry, i did not read the previous page.

Quote:
I don't play dwarves, but i played against them a few times and don't remember ever loosing against them. They have hard time against attack oriented factions like inferno, orc or dungeon. a pretty balanced (and exciting) situation is against academy, haven or sylvan.


I agree, except the orc part.

The reason why dwarf lose againts dungeon is destruction magic, you lock dwarf's creature that is equal or less than its dungeon counter part (dragons againts dragons, etc) then your magic blast the rest, not even runes can hold againts this, sure in theory it is possible, but the fact is different, if both player is equal in skill, dungeon doesn't need hit and run againts this faction, final fight vs final fight and the dungeon still triumph.

And dwarf lose againts inferno because the battle is the battle of atrition. However, inferno is the best faction in longer battle, mainly because gating. First time i fight a very decent dwarf player, i never believe that i won, i thought that inferno will surely lose, but then the key is in longer battle gating > rune.

Againts orc, dwarf will never lose, unless the dwarf player is too dumb.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted June 29, 2008 05:58 AM

Quote:
Againts orc, dwarf will never lose, unless the dwarf player is too dumb.

Who told you so and under which circumstances?
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted June 29, 2008 06:21 AM

I'd pit my skill at Stronghold vs a Fortress player on just about any map.  Though I am probably not even near the best player, Stronghold can hold their own vs fortress.  Even late game.
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