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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered
Thread: Runes & Steel - dwarven road to being overpowered This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 06, 2007 10:36 AM

Let's say it straight, I've seen endgame haven a few times, and there was no unit that could survive the paladins, despite they were split in half.. and WITHOUT RETRIBUTION..

And since it was irina, battle diving gryphs were an insta-kill for any shooter, and they constantly got morale up so they could jump endlessly.

Archangels scored a nasty damage too.

Plus, the superfast hero-buffing plus inquisitors.

I fear there is no faction that can beat lategame haven in open combat. Earlygame haven is pretty weak, though, and helpless against magical rush, and it should be exploited

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 06, 2007 10:56 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 11:23, 06 Jun 2007.

hyhy i think i missed hot conversation.

I can tell u that dwarfs are crazy in latte game and inferno is no match for them and if u have staff of netherworlds its gg.

Im not sure if runes are overpowered or not, they are certainly good but they mean something only in late game, early on you have too few troops to gain significant benefits from them so i think wouldn't call them overpowered

Lately i had nasty game as haven against dwarfs.

My army was much larger and i had many creature enhancing skills and he didnt, unfortunately for me he found tome of dark and pupeted my palas and i couldnt kill him fast enoug and my own units killed each other and rest was finished my implosion/armagedon.. i know i made few mistakes in this game but im only saying this to realize that its not always bigger army that wins .. with dark/destruction and 35 sp you can kill haven/dwarfs even with inferior army.

Without spells he would be dead meat, his charge of 140 raiders killed 2 of my palas lol

I had many games with fortress and i can say they are balanced in small mps and very good in large but i had too few games to say if they are overpowered or not.

I think key to victory is a small map so had the possibility to attack u earlier.

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Lednah
Lednah


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 02:27 PM

If you use magic immunity rune and then greater rune of magic immunity, will the second rune give new 2 randoms immunities or will repeat the first one?
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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted June 07, 2007 03:18 PM

according to me and my (little) experience runes have to be nerfed in one specific way:
each use of runes should decrease hero's initiative!!!!
maybe half a turn... i don't know...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rebirth aanytime now..
posted June 07, 2007 03:22 PM

Uh huh. Decreasing half a turn seven times per round sounds like a plan. You really hate them don't you?

In any case it's in lategame that they are allegedly overpowering. Earlier than that any kind of nerf would be severe.
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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted June 07, 2007 03:32 PM

Quote:
If you use magic immunity rune and then greater rune of magic immunity, will the second rune give new 2 randoms immunities or will repeat the first one?


I think it's 2 new random, but they override the first one.

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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted June 07, 2007 03:44 PM

you're right elvin: half a turn is too severe
I agree runes become OP in late game...
maybe instead of reducing hero's initiative when casting runes it could be a maximum number of runes for a single combat???

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Lednah
Lednah


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 04:10 PM

Every race has advantages in the late game. The dark mages don't even need pupet control. They simply can frenzy the enemy to death. The light mages can buff and ressurect (+12 attack means 12x5%=60% more damage) etc etc...
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 07, 2007 06:28 PM

Quote:
Every race has advantages in the late game. The dark mages don't even need pupet control. They simply can frenzy the enemy to death. The light mages can buff and ressurect (+12 attack means 12x5%=60% more damage) etc etc...
Rune mages have a Magic Guild as well

Besides, what about factions that aren't blessed with these two overpowered schools? Seems to me like you didn't take into account the other magic schools... perhaps because they're absolutely no match for overpowered Fortress

except rushes of course.. but this ain't right. Because having a faction dominate on large maps is imba. Runes are just too overpowered -- just LOOK at the other racial abilities and compare (or just look at Karli in duel )

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Lednah
Lednah


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 07:13 PM

Actually I use mostly the rune "charge" and then "berserk". But my hero has light magic, so I don't have much need of "ressurection" rune (and it ressurects only 40% from the creatures) and the battle usually is over before I can use greater resurection rune.
As for the dark magic - everyone can use it and it seems to me it brongs more power then the runes.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 07, 2007 07:19 PM

Quote:
As for the dark magic - everyone can use it and it seems to me it brongs more power then the runes.
What about Dark Magic with the runes? How's that?

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Lednah
Lednah


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 07:31 PM

This was an answer to the post the dwarfs can use dark magic too.
I wanted to say everyone, including the dwarves can learn dark magic and you don't need runes when you have frenzy and puppet control spells. I mean as a whole the runes usually are very usefull, but not that much overpowered.  

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rebirth aanytime now..
posted June 07, 2007 07:35 PM

Quote:
maybe instead of reducing hero's initiative when casting runes it could be a maximum number of runes for a single combat???


Isn't there one? Say twice with greater rune? Keep in mind that I have the rune bug so I have not used runes in a long while. I am not sure why they should be nerfed when they last for only one round and you have to pay for them in resources most of which you have spend on the dwellings and guilds. If I am wrong and they need to be toned down a slight atb drop for activating the rune could work. Say, if it consumed a little initiative for the action but less the 0.25 as the dwarves are already slow.
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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted June 07, 2007 07:38 PM
Edited by ZombieLord at 19:39, 07 Jun 2007.

How about: "each time a rune is cast, the hero loses 0.15 (0.1) ATB"

And make them a little more expensive... something like 2 Wood and 1 Ore for weak ones and 4 XXX and 3 XXX for stronger ones.

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Elvin
Elvin


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Rebirth aanytime now..
posted June 07, 2007 08:08 PM

Hey rune of charge is needed early and if it consumes 2 wood every time you activate it vs shooters, it kills your building potential!
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted June 07, 2007 08:19 PM

Quote:
Hey rune of charge is needed early and if it consumes 2 wood every time you activate it vs shooters, it kills your building potential!


Indeed. prices fine - Well okay slow down the creature afterwords, would be better at hero , because he has swift mind so wont bother him and with Empathy they are still just fine - And still if you gave runes ini. nerf , I for one would start looking for Ini. artifacts... They are too slow! ..
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 08:41 PM

Seriously, I see no reason to nerf runes. Nobody is really complaining about dwarves; they can be strong, yes, but can't every faction be?

dwarves have good backup (runes+light) and good abilities, but poor units. They need these things to prevail. Simple.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
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that wants your brainz...
posted June 07, 2007 08:43 PM

Quote:
dwarves have good backup (runes+light) and good abilities, but poor units. They need these things to prevail. Simple.

I disagree with the bolded part.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 07, 2007 08:44 PM

Quote:
dwarves have good backup (runes+light) and good abilities, but poor units. They need these things to prevail. Simple.


Defenders --> overpowered (except maybe familiars )
BlackBear Riders --> overpowered
Magma Dragons --> overpowered (10 defense compared to other factions + a lot of HP??? no way compensates for slowness/damage, not to mention the shield!)
Thanes --> Super overpowered with the right runes. Check out Karli in duel

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 07, 2007 08:45 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 20:47, 07 Jun 2007.

Tell me which of their units are good, then. and why

edit: wait a second TheDeath, you've always argued about taking all the factors when judging the strength of the units into consideration. Why do you suddenly mention runes?

Magma dragon gets killed by a hero attack, by vorpal swords, by empowered lucky spells, by harm touch even. Each faction has a number of counters.

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