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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 07:53 PM |
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Israel claims to be this great civilized democracy, and it acts no better than its enemies.
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Eccentric Opinion
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 08:27 PM |
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I sometimes wonder if you even read what we write.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 09:40 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 21:59, 26 May 2008.
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Jimmy Carter on Israel
During the press briefing, Mr Carter expressed his support for Israel as a country, but criticised its domestic and foreign policy. "One of the greatest human rights crimes on earth is the starvation and imprisonment of 1.6m Palestinians," he said. The former US president cited statistics which he said showed the nutritional intake of some Palestinian children was below that of children in Sub-Saharan Africa. 
BBC
Maybe he is a more believable source than Chomsky then, athough the issue is different here of course.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 10:37 PM |
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He's right. They are close there. We don't starve them, though. They get a lot of food. The presetage is not accurate, but still about 30% of the Israeli yearly badget goes to the Palestinians, mainly to feed them.
They are close for the last 8 years, since the second indifada began. We just can't let them pass since it started. They may be suicide bombers, and we can't take that risk.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 10:47 PM |
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Israel's hands are no cleaner than those of the Palestinians.
Let's see:
Palestine - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Israel - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Palestine - thinks that Israel is a state terrorist.
Israel - thinks that Hamas (Gaza government) is a terrorist group.
Palestinians - displaced Jews.
Israelis - displaced Palestinians.
Palestine - theocratic.
Israel - theocratic.
Incidentally, Iran - theocratic.
The only real difference is that Israeil is richer and pro-US.
And Carter went to talk to Hamas, and was critisised for it. Pathetic.
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Eccentric Opinion
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 10:53 PM |
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I can do this kind of a meaningless comparison between USA and Frace. Are they the same?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 11:18 PM |
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This comparison is hardly meaningless. What the US is doing is aiding a nation that is making us enemies. Moreover, it's aiding a non-secular state.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 26, 2008 11:22 PM |
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Quote:
Israel's hands are no cleaner than those of the Palestinians.
Let's see:
Palestine - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Israel - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Palestine - thinks that Israel is a state terrorist.
Israel - thinks that Hamas (Gaza government) is a terrorist group.
Palestinians - displaced Jews.
Israelis - displaced Palestinians.
Palestine - theocratic.
Israel - theocratic.
Incidentally, Iran - theocratic.
The only real difference is that Israeil is richer and pro-US.
And Carter went to talk to Hamas, and was critisised for it. Pathetic.
Mvass, are trying to say that Israel and Palestine are similar (if not equal) states ?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2008 11:37 PM |
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Of course there are numerous differences, but there is a surprising number of similarities, and those who aid Israel should consider the consequences of doing so.
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Eccentric Opinion
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted May 27, 2008 04:28 AM |
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But the benfit of being a knowledge-based economy is that aid is helpful but unneccasary .
There is always someone who wants to buy whatever you have if you create innovative things. In other words those who aid Israel only marginally help its cause. Because there will always be another buyer (even politically, everyone wants a politcal foothold for conquering the oil states) True. If all the nations of world where to turn against Israel it would hurt it. but most of them are far too lazy to do anything but critisize and draft laws specifically against it. In other words even the most stinging condemnation is still just a condemnation and very little else.
Remember. the EU is not the only market. China is looking for oil and for technology. India is to a lesser extent. Russia would pick up Israel as an ally if america left it is my belief.
Anyway, Do rules of engagement even exist anymore? this is a tough world. If you can get less killed on your side by not following a silly rulebook someone invented intentionally for his benefit, then by all means ignore it.
Also israel is democratically theocratic. Rememeber something important.Israel has no constituionif it is theocratic it is because religous jews hold power. Not because it is in essence theocratic.
Id just like to mention at the end of the day, Theres no medal if you followed the geneva convention or not. I would say 95% of the time , foreign observers will hate both sides of the countries fighting with total disregard for what their actions are.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted May 27, 2008 01:47 PM |
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IMO compering israel and palastine would be more like compering russia and USA,since the cold war is still going on,but on much lesser numbers..
Vietnam,Korea,israel. the only reason USA is pro israel is becouse USSR was pro egypt and syria. and russia is pro iran. ofc usa is after oil,but so is russia,you think iran does not pays handsomly to russia for the guns?
and ofc the confilct is about money and power,couse land means power.
but as our goverment sees it ,its us vs them,if we cancel meny laws they wish too,and expand palastine,it is a hazzard to israel for growing to powerfull unless a peace treaty can be signed,and withheld.
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types in obscure english
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 27, 2008 02:03 PM |
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Quote:
Israel's hands are no cleaner than those of the Palestinians.
Let's see:
Palestine - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Israel - doesn't use rules of engagement.
Palestine - thinks that Israel is a state terrorist.
Israel - thinks that Hamas (Gaza government) is a terrorist group.
Palestinians - displaced Jews.
Israelis - displaced Palestinians.
Palestine - theocratic.
Israel - theocratic.
Incidentally, Iran - theocratic.
The only real difference is that Israeil is richer and pro-US.
And Carter went to talk to Hamas, and was critisised for it. Pathetic.
I have to agree with Mvass here.
What the problem is, Israel claims to be a 'good' and 'peaceful' country, while it calls Palestine 'evil' and 'terrorist'. It's actually the same the other way around. Simply put, if your enemy is doing an action 'X', you must not respond in kind (like they say 2 wrongs don't make a right).
If you dare to call them evil in this way (because of their action X) then look in the mirror first, you'll see the reflection of that evil. no I've never been in a war. But I can say this: If you say war is so difficult and you have to act exactly as the enemy using the SAME forces, then by definition you are no better... the only problem comes when you claim you are better than them, when in fact, you are responding with the same evil techniques (so to speak, in this example).
So I conclude: either are Palestinians and Israel both the same kind of terrorists, or both are not terrorists. You can't just claim they are terrorists when you are responding in kind with the same methods, that isn't logical.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2008 03:36 PM |
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Quote:
But the benfit of being a knowledge-based economy is that aid is helpful but unneccasary.
That's not why the US supports Israel. The US supports Israel for military reasons, not directly economic ones.
Quote:
USA is pro israel is becouse USSR was pro egypt and syria
But the USSR is gone, and the US still supports Israel. Now, of course, it has a different reason to do so.
Quote:
I have to agree with Mvass here.
A rare moment in history.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 27, 2008 03:42 PM |
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Quote:
A rare moment in history.
LOL  
sorry for off-topic
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faith2
Bad-mannered
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 27, 2008 09:06 PM |
- penalty applied by angelito on 01 Sep 2008. |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Today I was at Yad-Vashem. It's an institude to the Holocaust memory. It's just so hard to get that 6,000,000 people were killed for who they are, for their religion.
It may be an act of ignorance, but I thought 6 milion people were killed in the Holocaust (I mean including Jews, Communists, homosexuals, Jehova Witnesses, etc,...)
If not so, Six milions is a shaking number... hopefully the (whole) world actually took lessons from it.
That's actually a very common mistake.
6 million Jews were killed, and more than a million Gypsies, communists, socialists, and people that objected to the Nazi ideaolody. The Nazis overall killed more than 7,000,000 civillans.
By the way, in Yad-Vashem there are also things that tell of people of the 7th million, but it's mostly about the Jews.
LIE!!
That was a hyperbolic report from media.
Tuly not that much! I read that Holocaust victim including all was 6M, not only Jew. And most of them were killed cause of starving in camp. Considering the war situation, that was a common thing been happen! Dont be Grudge LOL!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 27, 2008 09:13 PM |
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That reminds me of Ahmandinejad's conference on the "Myths of the Holocaust." A lot sure came from that.
And why are you Faith2 now?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted May 27, 2008 10:56 PM |
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Probably got banned.
Why do people go onto forums were everyone will probably dislike them for the first post they made.
Faith2, you can choose to argue with historians or not, i dont really know. But theres definatly a gap of 6 million jews out there and most chances are they died beacuse of the holocaust. And not from starvation. Theres still gas chambers in some of the death camps.
Even if you say that Israel and palestine are equal(which i do not agree with) Then you still have the typical argument, if everyone is the same, No one is different, Therefore the only elements that come into play are a countrys might and strategical value, in which case Israel should still come out favoured. So the argument is moot unless you want to argue as if all humans are cynic robots.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2008 11:15 PM |
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Quote:
Therefore the only elements that come into play are a countrys might and strategical value, in which case Israel should still come out favoured
It is safer to support no one.
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Eccentric Opinion
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 28, 2008 01:27 AM |
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Good thing we didn't have that attitude in World War II.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 28, 2008 02:22 AM |
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World War II is a far different sort of thing. Remember that the US was threatened by Japan's imperialistic expansion. Thus, the US's actions made sense from a defensive standpoint. Unlike today, where the US is clearly the aggressor.
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Eccentric Opinion
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