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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 12, 2008 09:21 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 21:23, 12 Nov 2008.
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I never said its ok to starve one self and I never said eating plants is wrong, I admitt it possibly may be. I said its ok to do what is necessary. Thats why animals eat eachother (some) I also said many pages back there is no known fact its wrong to eat animals, except we're risking it being wrong eating them without knowing its wrong or right.
Whats necessary to survival? Eating anything we need to live. That doesnt include flesh and blood.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 12, 2008 09:27 PM |
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I find it quite funny btw: People try to protect nature without understanding its most basic laws.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 12, 2008 09:35 PM |
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Quote:
I laugh that people continuously bring plants into this discussion by people who still eat them and eat killed animals. If you say eating plants is so wrong, then you must agree eating animals is wrong too. Get some credibility behind your arguments, stop eating plants, then talk to me about plant eating being wrong.
Clearly you don't understand the point I was trying to get across.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted November 12, 2008 09:58 PM |
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What makes it wrong to kill a few undeveloped cells (stem cell research) but right to kill fully developed sentient beings? /devil's advocate
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 12, 2008 09:58 PM |
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Corribus I probably do understand but that statement you quoted was for everyone who brings in plants plants plants, they are humans too lol (basicly)
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 12, 2008 09:59 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 22:00, 12 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
I find it quite funny btw: People try to protect nature without understanding its most basic laws.
Basic laws acording to whom, humans? riiight humans know everything I forgot sorry :joking:
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 12, 2008 10:11 PM |
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Basic laws of nature. You have to eat life forms. That's how it works.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 12, 2008 10:14 PM |
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Breeding just to kill it is not a law of nature 
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 12, 2008 11:12 PM |
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as somebody mentioned, ants do it too.
Besides, I don't need any excuses. I am evil and thus I eat what I want. 
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 12, 2008 11:27 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 23:28, 12 Nov 2008.
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See, Celf, you can't simply shake off arguments which don't suit you, such as plants (the most obvious one), with sarcasm and repeating how it's off topic or that we miss the point - and after that wonder why people ignore you. You wanted a discussion, you wanted people to give you reasons why eating meat is ok - you got it. Now play by the rules. Face the plants issue instead of avoiding it. Face the issue of all other species eating other species instead of avoiding it. Face biology instead of avoiding it. Etcetera.
-Why is it better to cultivate plants than animals?
-What makes animals more alive than plants?
-Define moral issues which apply to eating animals and don't apply to eating plants.
-Why wouldn't we all just live on dairy products and synthetic pills?
-How exactly is cattle-breeding unnatural when there are various examples in the nature where species like ants do it?
-Are you aware of the consequences that abolishment of meat-eating would have on the planet? How much more forests would have to be cut down in order to create new fields for grain and other plants?
-What about people who can't afford or reach other sources of protein and other ingredients found in meat that a human body needs?
-What about fish?
-Should we exterminate all carnivore species on the planet to prevent the suffering of herbivore species?
-What would stop herbivores from overpopulation and plants from extinction?
-What do you propose we do and why?
Questions just burst to mind.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 13, 2008 12:09 AM |
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Quote:
No actually, you say eating animals is wrong and therefore eating plants is wrong as well. So our only option is to starve?
Nope. I hear clowns taste kinda funny at first.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 13, 2008 01:43 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 01:44, 13 Nov 2008.
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This thread isnt about plants being OK or not, I never said they were to begin with did I, I only said they are necessary?
-Why is it better to cultivate plants than animals?
A: They dont appear to be sentient
B: They are necessary to survive
C: eating a tomato harvested from its life source isnt killing the plant
D: What else could we eat? Theres no way people of earth will adapt to eat like they do in the matrix with no proof for it not being ok eating plants
-What makes animals more alive than plants?
Life is subjective in this instance, but animals show pain, fear, discomfort, and the opposite when they are happy. Animals form bonds with one another and of other species.
-Define moral issues which apply to eating animals and don't apply to eating plants.
Well firstly, meat isnt required to live where plants are. Why not breed to kill? Why? Other than having something that tastes good for a few minutes.
-Why wouldn't we all just live on dairy products and synthetic pills?
-How exactly is cattle-breeding unnatural when there are various examples in the nature where species like ants do it?
-Are you aware of the consequences that abolishment of meat-eating would have on the planet? How much more forests would have to be cut down in order to create new fields for grain and other plants?
Dual layered green houses never hurt anyone. There are other solutions which would all create blood free jobs
-What about people who can't afford or reach other sources of protein and other ingredients found in meat that a human body needs?
supplements
-What about fish?
Fish have a rough time dying, cleaned alive, suffocated. Fish are animals.
-Should we exterminate all carnivore species on the planet to prevent the suffering of herbivore species?
Let mother nature do what it does instinctively. No do not wipe the earth clean of animals
-What would stop herbivores from overpopulation and plants from extinction?
-What do you propose we do and why?
Continue breeding animals, give them a good life, and when they die, eat them. If you want to go over board dont eat a tomato until it falls from the plant.
I'll answer the rest later in red (to distinguish the ones you've seen now and the ones I put up later, after some rest time
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Lord_Pc
Promising
Famous Hero
Groin-Grabingly Clever
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posted November 13, 2008 07:11 AM |
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Quote:
-Should we exterminate all carnivore species on the planet to prevent the suffering of herbivore species?
Let mother nature do what it does instinctively. No do not wipe the earth clean of animals
I dont think this is a proper answer. As I see it, Humans are part of mother nature. Instinctively, humans kill animals as a source of food, like sharks, lions or other carnivores. So why are humans the exception?
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Da-da-dada-HEY-dada-da-da
Two goldfish were in their tank. One turns to the other and says, 'You man the guns, I'll drive.'
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 13, 2008 07:17 AM |
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I think there is a difference between humans and animals, dont you?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 13, 2008 10:20 AM |
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Quote:
-What do you propose we do and why?
Continue breeding animals, give them a good life, and when they die, eat them.
Good luck in eating a 30 year old pig, mate.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 13, 2008 10:27 AM |
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Quote:
I dont think this is a proper answer. As I see it, Humans are part of mother nature. Instinctively, humans kill animals as a source of food, like sharks, lions or other carnivores. So why are humans the exception?
Forget it I already tried it that way... they'll just go on about how we are a "higher" species and that we should eat something else because we have the option to only eat vegetables and vitamine pills.... . But yeah I fully agree with you. Nature designed us for meat eating, so why not?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 13, 2008 10:31 AM |
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I guess I already wrote about humans always trying to act as higher consciousness and tutoring others what is the BEST way of living? With extreme relativity of our morals, we can forget about those things. Period.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 13, 2008 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
So why are humans the exception?
When is the last time you've seen an animal blow up an area and destroying the ecosystem? We could do it so easily with a few nukes...
so yeah we're pretty different, we have "higher" purposes, or let's say, "higher decisions"
And @bak I think what Celfious meant was this: We need to eat right? Naturally, eating only meat, you won't survive. Being vegetarian is perfectly healthy, in fact, go ask some body builders or athletes about it
So the conclusion is, meat is unnecessary, since we CAN survive without it. And I am talking naturally since that's what you people seem to use as an argument. Not so the other way. We usually can't survive (well not healthy!) without plants/vegetables/whatever. Therefore those are necessary whether you like it or not, naturally. But the statement that meat is unnecessary is perfectly true 100%.
Whether we eat meat+plants or only plants, none of them (by your logic) cause any greater pain. But note that meat is unnecessary: while this may cause a "shift" of amount more towards the plants (and approaching 0 to the animals), it doesn't in total cause anything greater.
Here's the thing: bred animals which are used only for meat (so no "life" at all) ALSO CAUSE "pain" to plants since they need to eat. Thus, eating animals is not just the pain of killing the animal, but also when the animal ate plants just so it can be killed later (the animal). Therefore by this logic it causes greater pain.
Well plants at least suck light from the Sun, don't tell me that feels pain
Is that clear now?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 13, 2008 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
-Are you aware of the consequences that abolishment of meat-eating would have on the planet? How much more forests would have to be cut
Are you aware of the consequenses? Do you know that animals eat too? In the U.S. animals are fed more than 80 percent of the corn they grow and more than 95 percent of the oats.
Of all agricultural land in the U.S., 87 percent is used to raise animals for food. That’s 45 percent of the total land mass in the U.S. More than 260 million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create cropland for the meat-centered diet. It takes 10 times as much land to feed a meat-eater, rather than a vegan.
Raising animals for food is grossly inefficient, because you have to put 20 calories of food into an animal to get just one measly calorie back in the form of flesh.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 13, 2008 03:49 PM |
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Can you eat grass?
No, but a cow can.
Where are the wasted calories you mentioned?
Sure, those are no longer times where breeding animals means having three cows that pasture on grass. But that's not an argument against breeding animals 
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This thread is pages long: 
