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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted October 20, 2008 06:34 PM |
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There's a lot of things we don't need, but we certainly still want them.
And? That is not the problem here. The problem is when you try to justify this and say that it's something more than just "because I want to" or "because I like to". The problem is when you start to make up formulations to justify it and calling it "better" or "different" or whatever other justification.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
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BlizzardBoy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 20, 2008 07:26 PM |
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Quote:
And? That is not the problem here. The problem is when you try to justify this and say that it's something more than just "because I want to" or "because I like to". The problem is when you start to make up formulations to justify it and calling it "better" or "different" or whatever other justification.
Well, there are economical reasons; do they count?  . Live off of fruits & vegetables for a month and then all meat for another, and tell me which one hurts your wallet more. Granted, the reason for that is because the vast majority of all subsidaries are in the meat & dairy industry, but still.
I would like to add that the carbon dioxide reductions from switching to a universal vegetarian diet would only play a small part in the climate crisis. By far the largest cause is the destruction of the oceans' algae; so if we stopped eating meat so all the grazing grounds could become forested again, we'd still be in trouble.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 20, 2008 07:28 PM |
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People eat meat because they are convinced its normal. Why it's been done since the beggining of written history, probably longer.. But we have things animals and plants probably dont have. Common sense, free will, and a conscience.
People eat meat because its like junkies who take mass amounts of other things to feel good.. They like the effect, we like the taste. Is taste seriously enough to wipe humans conscience clean before they are faced with true knowledge?
People eat meat, because, they "can". When the only two things that really make it possible are the helplessness of these animals, and 2: law makers.
Did you know that they use antibiotics in these places to keep the animals healthy while the diseases evolve? It's simple knowledge that we have to keep updating medicines in order to keep up with the strongest fittest bacterias and disease.
Don't get me wrong, I love a set of bbq ribs.. Probably the best dish I don't have to travel seas for. And I would eat them too if they were served but there are some things I just try to stay away from when I can. If something ends up on my plate like turkey, I'll eat it because I wouldn't want the turkey to die for nothing, but I generally wont ask for it.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 20, 2008 07:30 PM |
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If we didn't hunt moose, bear etc we'd have too much of them Xerox...
Fine then, lets go out and kill people then. You know, humans are already to many so why not just shoot them all down?
Seriously, why even live in the forest then? -.-
A bear is never going to attack you without reason.
Huh? I don't really get you here...
Humans and animals are two different things, honestly, don't you value a human life more than an animal's?
I like eating Moose, but I don't want them to dissapear completely, that's why we have rules so that we don't shoot them all down...
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Nature can do its own work without our "help".
Huh? You talk as if humans and nature are seperated, we are part of nature!
Ignoring nature completely could completly screw up everything! Since we've already changed and affected things, such drastic measures would surely just bring devestation, it's human influence that prevents other species from becoming far too many. Sure, if we didn't affect things, nature would ofcourse work its own way out... but we are a factor in nature.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted October 20, 2008 07:36 PM |
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People eat meat because its like junkies who take mass amounts of other things to feel good.. They like the effect, we like the taste. Is taste seriously enough to wipe humans conscience clean before they are faced with true knowledge?
see why such justifications with "feeling good" are not strong arguments, because same arguments can be applied to something we call 'bad'. I have a problem once they want to justify their position -- it's either for every situation or none at all (i mean the justification).
Oh and in fact, the junkies don't really affect some other being...
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Huh? You talk as if humans and nature are seperated, we are part of nature!
Ignoring nature completely could completly screw up everything! Since we've already changed and affected things, such drastic measures would surely just bring devestation, it's human influence that prevents other species from becoming far too many. Sure, if we didn't affect things, nature would ofcourse work its own way out... but we are a factor in nature.
Only that nature on its own wouldn't "break the balance" that easily, we can easily drop a few nukes and...
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted October 20, 2008 07:46 PM |
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JAAAAAAAAAAAAIJ MIRU IS BACK!!!
How have you been man?
EDIT Oh and I second TA and Bak. Seriously.
Sshhh they don't know I'm here....
I'll be officially back soonish (relativly)
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2008 08:58 AM |
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First, I'll admit theres no affirmed reason its not ok to eat meat, then someone else might respond "theres no affirmed reason its ok to eat meat" Because taste, history, nature, and power dont cut it.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted October 21, 2008 09:12 AM |
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You still haven't provided a valid reason why eating plants is ok 
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John says to live above hell.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 21, 2008 09:20 AM |
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Of course it's an valid argument that we eat meat because of our history oO!
Dude if you great great great great great great.... great granpa Chief Tyranosaurusrexpwnor wouldn't have killed the delicous Stegasauros Megaloldockus you wouldn't be here´!
Oh we are now in a age we technically could subsitute everything meat gives us with medicine and whatnot. But why should we stop eating meat? A predator eats for a living. Humans are predators. Only we don't run through the woods jumping mose and ripping their raw flesh from their bones (atleast most of us, right?), we do it in a more sophisticated way. We breed our food. What's the deal?
It's perfectly ok to eat meat. We were designed by nature for doing it oO. We are omnivores so we can eat all the meat we want.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2008 09:24 AM |
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@TA I cant come up with a solid reason but we have to survive, and to not eat growth from bacterias and plants would mean death in the long run. So if thats not reason enough I dont know what is.
@Az I'll get back to you later but history doesnt mean we have to repeat it. We dont have to have unwilling workers or HOMM style wars.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 21, 2008 09:36 AM |
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We dont have to have unwilling workers or HOMM style wars.
How is that even slightly related to the topic of eating meat. It's not like eating meat is a mistake. Strictly scientificly speaking we are omnivores (= "alleaters") so we are designed by nature to eat meat.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2008 09:44 AM |
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No we are not! Omnivors are a mistake of nature and they should be corrected!
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Azagal
Honorable
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Smooth Snake
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posted October 21, 2008 09:47 AM |
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Ahh damnit I knew that explanation had to be too simple to be true .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2008 09:50 AM |
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Nature is not a beautiful thing. I am just a person explaining the following: We are a very unnatural species, using animal fats to make ourselves look good, testing medicines on animals, running hard drug experiments on animals, fishing to throw back, hunting with guns calling it a sport, but enough about unnatural.. Lets go to whats called natural.
Cultivating animal species to not aid humans but to fill our stomachs temporarily when we could go beyond that and use modern science and medicines to fulfill not only natural needs but to fulfill taste. It was natural to have unwilling workers, so it seemed, and now that we mark a new era in this age, we can begin to realize what seems normal, is just sick and wrong.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2008 09:55 AM |
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Or get all philosophical on the wrong subjects 
Btw hunger is unnatural, I say we ban it. It makess uss hungerr for fleshhh 
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted October 21, 2008 10:00 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 10:02, 21 Oct 2008.
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Cultivating animal species to not aid humans but to fill our stomachs temporarily when we could go beyond that and use modern science and medicines to fulfill not only natural needs but to fulfill taste.
There is nothing sick and wrong about growing food oO. Animals = food. Where exactly is the equasion incorrect? Yes we could just eat pills that taste like roast beef and fish and chips and what not but for what purpose? So that we wouldn't have to eat the pig we cultivated?
See it's not like I hate animals or I don't feel sorry for chickens that are held in those aweful small cages etc. (that's why I only eat the good stuff) but that doesn't make me a bad person if I enjoy my tasty steak in the evening. It's not about having double morals or anything. But animals are food so I'd be a complete retard not to eat them.
EDIT: but nevermind it doesn't seem that you're willing to accept the "fact" that animals = food so I guess there is no point really for discussing this, since I can't give you an omnipotent argument you'd not defy as insufficient.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted October 21, 2008 10:01 AM |
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Quote:
People eat meat, because, they "can".
You have summarized the whole thread with this line. We *can* kill a freaking chiken, eat its liver, heart, legs and chest, and we get away with it. In human history, man has always done things that he can get away with it, even if it is not legal. We have a nice saying here in Romania, and it translates, mot a mot, into something like: The uncaught thief is a honest merchant".
Also, i would kindly ask a mod to move this to another forum, it is getting interesting.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2008 10:05 AM |
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It's not getting away with something. Just as some species can be man-eaters we can eat animals, pretty natural if you ask me. Revenge!
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2008 10:08 AM |
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Quote:
EDIT: but nevermind it doesn't seem that you're willing to accept the "fact" that animals = food so I guess there is no point really for discussing this, since I can't give you an omnipotent argument you'd not defy as insufficient.
I eat animals sometimes, but i prefer vegetarian meals. This discussion was about finding one logical "justification" to eating animals and there has yet to be one enough to satisfy logic. (not me, but logic)
I will conceed on the other hand that there is no right reason to not eat meat, with one exception, that if we're wrong about it, we're hurting others, where if we go about the the other decision, no one is hurt.
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Warmonger
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Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted October 21, 2008 10:10 AM |
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I take the entire question as incorrectly stated. You'd better convince us that eating animals might NOT be allright - in fact we've been doing it for ages. Once it's not dangerous neither damaging for any of people, I see no actual reason to discuss this issue seriously.
We do not need to justify our deeds as animals are generally though to be excluded from moral community, so ethical dillemmas don't apply to them. From this point of view there is no difference between sheep, apple or LHC.
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