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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 123 124 125 126 127 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 20, 2011 08:50 PM

Quote:
*What about the area of control?
There are still mines on the adventure map. You still have to flag them in order to gain resources. The new stuff is now all mines are in the "area of control" of a city or fort. Once you own the fort/city of an area and flagg the mines, the only way to take the mines from you is to capture the city/fort that controls the area.
That's the F***ing issue, why the hell can you grab enemy mines, but not unguarded, unowned ones?

Quote:
*What are the new mechanics for creature production?
Creature dwellings will work as resource production buildings. Basically, when you first capture a creature dwelling you will receive a first batch of creatures that you can integrate straight away to your army. The building will then work as a resource building meaning that it will add creatures to your creature pool every week as a gold mine would add gold to your resources. These creatures will then be hirable via the cities and forts you control. So there is no need for caravans.
Except that there is, because you still need to get those creature to the front line.

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Mmh6James
Mmh6James


Adventuring Hero
posted January 20, 2011 08:51 PM

The only problem of the game I see is that everything is less.
Less races, less resources, less creatures, less artifacts, less plains...

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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2011 08:55 PM
Edited by Willis at 20:56, 20 Jan 2011.

Quote:
That's the F***ing issue, why the hell can you grab enemy mines, but not unguarded, unowned ones?


Huh? You can only use enemy mines if you stand on them or you take the nearby control point. Neutral mines are up for grabs if they're not within a control zone. If they are within a control zone, they need to be claimed then they go to whoever controls the control zone (unless an enemy hero is standing on them).

Quote:
Except that there is, because you still need to get those creature to the front line.


There may be forts all around the map, so you could probably just go to the nearest fort to recruit. They all have access to your creature pool, it seems.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 20, 2011 09:07 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 21:09, 20 Jan 2011.

Quote:
The Fort is meant to be populated by your already existing army that you have recruited from your town or all around creature dwellings.
If it works like that, it will be an utter failure because everybody will prefer to leave the fort empty and give the whole army to the main hero instead of splitting forces and subsequently losing because of it. There was an option to garrison the flagged mines before but nobody used it (or to be precise - it was used in very rare and specific scenarios), I can't see how this will change now. Such approach will only make the mine capturing by the opponent much more tedious than it already is as you will now lose several mines at once instead of just one.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 20, 2011 09:14 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The Fort is meant to be populated by your already existing army that you have recruited from your town or all around creature dwellings.
If it works like that, it will be an utter failure because everybody will prefer to leave the fort empty and give the whole army to the main hero instead of splitting forces and subsequently losing because of it. There was an option to garrison the flagged mines before but nobody used it (or to be precise - it was used in very rare and specific scenarios), I can't see how this will change now. Such approach will only make the mine capturing by the opponent much more tedious than it already is as you will now lose several mines at once instead of just one.


Bah, I never liked having a main hero. They're only good for endgame tactics. Bad move concentrating your army in one location when the map was so big. Ofcourse, it didn't matter since the AI always sucked. Now having to defend forts, towns and still need to explore and conquer, you will have to divide your army. This is a much more prefferable way of playing to me.
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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2011 09:19 PM

Quote:
Precisely, once you own the control point, you grab all the enemy owned mines, but not the unowned, unguarded mines, which makes exactly zero sense.


By that logic, claiming a control point in the first place should automatically claim every mine in the region. In fact, your starting town is probably a control point, so you would just get all the mines in your area automatically.

You can think of it as those mines already have workers and they'll work for whoever is lord of the region. Unclaimed mines don't have any operations set up yet.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 20, 2011 10:04 PM

Quote:
HoMM is good for SP only.

Nonsense It can offer a very satisfying experience but obviously you are better off playing medium/large maps that don't take more than a few hours or 5-6 at most. If you delay the game needlessly, say beyond week 5 you will get bored indeed but then maybe that's just me. Either way my duel map offers the best of heroes minus the pointless delays

Forts are indeed control points(assuming you have enabled the control system) and as such are important in establishing your dominion in an area. They are fortificated much like a walled town but I do not know whether they have anything special about them - say unique moats, arrow towers and such.

Finally I know that ubi is planning a couple of things that should satisfy you but I cannot be certain exactly when they will be released other than soon
____________
Have you ever tried blind fold archery? You don't know what you're missing!

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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2011 10:42 PM
Edited by Willis at 22:52, 20 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Except the unowned one (and preferably the owned ones but that won't happen) that are guarded.


If a mine is neutral, it is likely to be guarded, so that sort of defeats the whole idea of a control point giving you the neutral mines in the first place.

Quote:
Yes they have, they just don't have anyone to send the resources to.


Why would a mine have workers if they don't work for anyone? I was just saying a way in which the current system could be thought of as logical. If you think of claimed mines as mines where the lord has placed workers, then when a new lord controls the area, those workers work for the new lord. The neutral mines are generally guarded and would not have had those workers placed at the mine. This is not something really to be argued about, it's just a way of rationalizing the logic of the game.

edit: I believe your claim is that control points should give you the neutral mines instead of the claimed mines. I don't see how it is a control point if your opponent still has control of the mines they claimed. Sure, you could claim their mines individually. But then what logic would there be to say they couldn't claim mines within your control point? They had ownership of mines in your control point before, what is preventing them from taking mines again? Also, taking into account that most neutral mines are guarded, it wouldn't make sense to gain those from a control point.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 20, 2011 11:09 PM

Quote:
If a mine is neutral, it is likely to be guarded, so that sort of defeats the whole idea of a control point giving you the neutral mines in the first place.
A lot of them weren't in H3, although I suppose this may have changed in H4/5

Quote:
Why would a mine have workers if they don't work for anyone? I was just saying a way in which the current system could be thought of as logical. If you think of claimed mines as mines where the lord has placed workers, then when a new lord controls the area, those workers work for the new lord. The neutral mines are generally guarded and would not have had those workers placed at the mine. This is not something really to be argued about, it's just a way of rationalizing the logic of the game.
And it would be great, if you didn't actually know a thing about mines, except that I know at least a few things about them, and one is that if you don't have crews in there to maintain them they close up again, which means, ergo, that the are people there the whole time.

Quote:
edit: I believe your claim is that control points should give you the neutral mines instead of the claimed mines.
No, I said as well as, not instead of, there's a big difference.

Quote:
I don't see how it is a control point if your opponent still has control of the mines they claimed. Sure, you could claim their mines individually. But then what logic would there be to say they couldn't claim mines within your control point? They had ownership of mines in your control point before, what is preventing them from taking mines again?
I never claimed I was against grabbing all the owned mines within reach of the control point, I just wondered why different rules applied to neutral mines than to enemy mines.

Quote:
Also, taking into account that most neutral mines are guarded, it wouldn't make sense to gain those from a control point.
At every juncture, I have stated unguarded, unowned. Note the first word.

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted January 21, 2011 09:04 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 21 Jan 2011.
Edited by alcibiades at 18:33, 21 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
It has nothing to do with risky and complex. It's very simple decision actually. You split forces = the heroes leading the respective small armies will be defeated by the large army of the enemy hero, because: 1) the enemy hero is higher level and thus has more powerful skills, spells, etc.; 2) his army outnumbers yours; 3) he's likely to have better artefacts because the size of his army allows him to attack stronger neutrals, including the guardians of powerful artefacts. In short - the battle will end in 1-2 rounds and you'll be lucky if you even scratch his army. Scouts are one thing and everybody uses them, sometimes they even have a small force with them - usually the most useless creatures of the respective faction, but what you're talking about is plain suicide. Like I said, I don't want to discuss it. If you overcome your dislike for MP games, I can demonstrate you what I mean in a real game.


That's IF the main hero would be able to catch up on all enemy heroes, which is impossible if they a lead a well coordinated assault and not just rush in. And when these enemy heroes start taking away mines, dwelligs, towns, killing your secondaries, the main hero would find himself in a rather tight corner. Most of them will flee then, Town Portals and whatnot, the others will fortify themselves in whichever town they captured, they will lose the fight but by then the damage will have been done. And as the main hero will strive to recapture everything, then enemies heroes will compine into one force and finish him off or if he still has a greater army, then retake everything.

Not to mention diversions and misleading the main force by having them chasing after one hero while others keep attacking...

@Elvin
The problem is, I don't have the patience or stamina to play 6 hours straight.


spoken like a man who has never played against another player made of flesh and blood... small-medium maps - one hero covers all
large + maps, main hero is where he needs to be, whether im concentrating with the main hero and having one hero follow him and collect resources (in case of danger to any of the "important towns" u move the creatures to the lesser hero, attack a random creature with the main hero, flee and there i am in any of the towns with the dwellings within them and a strong hero far superior to any of the middle man u can send) also the ass hero has the main army hence u cant do nothing to him) ur assumin u can see the entire map, know where my hero is and where he will be when u make an attack with your many heroes... the fact is when playing against human unlike AI, u have no idea what i will do nor do u see the entire map, and if u were to see it all or know it all the man against u would also see your moves hence making your blitz attack a joke... when its all said and done, u can take all the mines on the map, if i have a main hero and u dont, resources are irrelevant, u will be squashed like a bug... matter of fact even if u have a main hero theres a big chance u will be squashed like a bug, coz unlike fighting AI ppl go crazy when it comes to strategies of the combat... but its sad that the online game turned ass coz there are many cheaters out there...
the only usage of middle man (lesser heroes) is to hold a few rounds against the opponents main man and hit him with as much magic as possible hence making him weaker for your main hero...

P.S. take a mental note BTW, stay playing against AI, coz u'll end up crying like a little baby after a few encounters with human opponents

Mod > QP awarded for good contribution to discussion.

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted January 21, 2011 09:13 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 21 Jan 2011.

I have gathered the different "released" adventure map objects that i could find in one picture (for those who´s interested). I know its badly made and a bit shabby but hey it get´s the job done


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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 21, 2011 09:54 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 21 Jan 2011.
Edited by alcibiades at 18:34, 21 Jan 2011.

Ofcourse I'm not talking about small to medium maps. It's suicide to split up where you can't spread out. Large and extra-large maps, is where a strategy such as this, works.

Giving your creatures to a lesser hero, is suicide. First, your lesser hero must be close to your main hero to get them, at least a day's distance but that means he's still far enough to catch up on multiple attackers. Secondly your lesser hero will probably waste your army because he does not have the levels of your main.

For example: You enter a neutral territory with your main hero and capture the mines and the towns. Just as you leave to move on, you see an attacking hero invading this territory. You either ignore him and let him take everything or chase after him. But if you chase after him (And I will probably have him cast town portal when you're going to catch up), you will see that as you were being drawn away, another attacking hero in the other side of the map, is capturing more of your mines and towns. What do you do with only one hero and not  any army to your secondaries? Give up chase on the first and go against the second who is even many more days further away? Then the third and fourth ones go in other areas through other ways too. You're probably going to catch up on one of them and defeat him easily. But until then how many turns have you wasted on chasing after them and recapturing what was yours in the first place? At one point you will realize you can't be everywhere all the time but by then will probably be too late.

And like I said, I don't rush in. I scout first and then co-ordinate the assault. If I don't know where I am going, then I'm not going. If I don't know where you're going then I'm not going. I play safe till I know the neutral or enemy region well enough to move in with a sizeable army controlled by different heroes. My scouting heroes would scan through a neutral region much faster than a main hero alone. So I will know the map before you do. Ofcourse that doesn't mean, I will know your area before you do, that's irrational. But I leave your Capital and the grounds around it for last. Endgame tactics, that's when a main hero is needed.

The only keyword is not to let the main hero figh me. Whenever the main fights one of my heroes, I lose. Fleeing with town portal (or even better angel wings but that's a rarity), when he comes is much more prefferable than pushing in to complete the mission. Because even so they still made him get out of his way and in an essence waste his turn. He's just one, and they're many. Some of them are bound to capture what they were meant to, or kill the secondaries.

Ofcourse, it's always risky to use such strategies and a simple mistake can ruin everything... Against even the hardest cheating AI, it works like a charm. But against a human, a simple miscalculation in movement points probably means my defeat. But supposing I'm not making any mistakes...

Mod > QP awarded for general contribution to forum and good contribution to discussion (even if some disagree).
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 21, 2011 10:37 AM
Edited by Elvin at 10:37, 21 Jan 2011.

@Yaeliccc
That's why there is toh, cheaters there get branded and they don't last long. But if you play at ubi.com you can meet any kind of jerk amongst the good guys. Problem with H5 was that saves were not encrypted so if you saved the opponent had a chance to see what you had

@kodial79
Playing safe is a recipe for defeat The fastest player will get the good stuff week 2-3 and if he is attacked he will either have a level advantage that allows him to kill some of your army while risking just the minimal amount army that he has or he will simply surrender and recruit hero in town, well equipped with arties and ready to buy full army and drive you back. If you are slower but still press on for the middle - whether you know enemy location or not - you just might get there in time to make him flee before he clears everything. Now, if he is a magic hero and you take longer he'll instead opt to chain his town's army to him through a network of 2-4 secondaries() and come straight to you the moment he picks what he finds absolutely necessary.

@Properkheldar

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Have you ever tried blind fold archery? You don't know what you're missing!

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 21, 2011 10:52 AM

The feature can be deactivated by the mapmaker, but I'm not sure you can deactivate it in-game

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted January 21, 2011 11:09 AM

I wish they would have kept the colors of the dreamwalker for the in game model (like the green mask and the beige feathers with red tips). It would have made a bigger difference compared to the dream reaver. The mutated arm doesn´t seem to change either.  

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mancubus
mancubus


Adventuring Hero
posted January 21, 2011 11:20 AM

About Shaman artwork: hello, claws enormous!

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted January 21, 2011 11:39 AM

Quote:
Giving your creatures to a lesser hero, is suicide. First, your lesser hero must be close to your main hero to get them, at least a day's distance but that means he's still far enough to catch up on multiple attackers. Secondly your lesser hero will probably waste your army because he does not have the levels of your main.

hes not gonna waste teh army coz his job is to keep the creatures as u handle what needs handling, in th emean time nobody isnt going after him either coz hes superior and he can teleport as well which means town protection...


Quote:
For example: You enter a neutral territory with your main hero and capture the mines and the towns. Just as you leave to move on, you see an attacking hero invading this territory. You either ignore him and let him take everything or chase after him. But if you chase after him (And I will probably have him cast town portal when you're going to catch up), you will see that as you were being drawn away, another attacking hero in the other side of the map, is capturing more of your mines and towns. What do you do with only one hero and not  any army to your secondaries?

i can teleport as well, u thinkin somebody is gonna chase one irrelevant hero all over the map is funny... main hero scares u off or goes for the town, no chasing around one specific insignifacnt target, main hero is the keeper of all things and the destructor, ur not playing with twelve yr olds, nobody wont play cat and moues with u, u send scouts, find the towns and hit them when u need to... simple

Quote:
Give up chase on the first and go against the second who is even many more days further away? Then the third and fourth ones go in other areas through other ways too. You're probably going to catch up on one of them and defeat him easily. But until then how many turns have you wasted on chasing after them and recapturing what was yours in the first place? At one point you will realize you can't be everywhere all the time but by then will probably be too late.


ur assuming i have tons of unprotected towns, ur assuming i wont be able to forsee your attack on all teritories, ur assuming i cant fight off your middle heroes, ur assuming ur hurtin me by taking my town when at the same time i can take your town, slight difference my army is far superior coz ur devided, how many towns can u overrun with devided army (towns get protected every week u know, and once u leave your towns it takes u some time to reach my teritory in a large map)... your entire logic is as if ur playing against someone who has never played the game, come on now, dont be silly, "im gonna make u chase one of my heroes while i attack the towns" whos gonna fall for that ? even AI didnt fall for stuff like that in H5, get real....

Quote:
And like I said, I don't rush in. I scout first and then co-ordinate the assault. If I don't know where I am going, then I'm not going. If I don't know where you're going then I'm not going. I play safe till I know the neutral or enemy region well enough to move in with a sizeable army controlled by different heroes. My scouting heroes would scan through a neutral region much faster than a main hero alone. So I will know the map before you do. Ofcourse that doesn't mean, I will know your area before you do, that's irrational. But I leave your Capital and the grounds around it for last. Endgame tactics, that's when a main hero is needed.


u can play safe as long as u want, if u think i'll wait for u to reveal the entire map, ur delusional, im coming for u with a force and unless u can defend yourself, ur gone... left with couple of useless scouters... sariously, play a game online will ya, seems ur clueless, its like u think ur playing against a player whos gonna stay in his area for weeks and wait for your master plan... LOL

Quote:
The only keyword is not to let the main hero figh me. Whenever the main fights one of my heroes, I lose. Fleeing with town portal (or even better angel wings but that's a rarity), when he comes is much more prefferable than pushing in to complete the mission. Because even so they still made him get out of his way and in an essence waste his turn. He's just one, and they're many. Some of them are bound to capture what they were meant to, or kill the secondaries.


nobody isnt chasing u, we're going after your towns... u take a town, u fortify it enough and u move on

Quote:
Ofcourse, it's always risky to use such strategies and a simple mistake can ruin everything... Against even the hardest cheating AI, it works like a charm. But against a human, a simple miscalculation in movement points probably means my defeat. But supposing I'm not making any mistakes...

aginst an old good player ur gettin your ass whooped, against a medium player, ur being defeated, against a rookie u stand some chance, not much though coz the plan isnt really good as u have a thinker against u, AI cant think futher then his next step, human opponent always thinks that way, especially when playing against another human... thats what makes the game far more interesting than lame ass AI's

i've never played AI on anything less than the hardest possible option, havent lost once... playing humans was way harder, and i got surprised many times, by map strategy, by various combat strategies... there are ppl out there who know how to pull some crazy snow, playing others only develops your game... give it a try, someone whos playing with your strategy... thats an encounter i would like to hear about

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted January 21, 2011 11:44 AM

@ Elvin - cheaters get branded is really cute hypothetically speaking, but when u spend 2 hrs playing someone and then discover an army of 300 dragons standing against your 20.. well that kinda kills the fun, when that happens more than once... u pretty much give up on online game coz it feels like a waste...

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 21, 2011 12:49 PM

Quote:
@Yaeliccc, your attempts to explain kodial the basics of a multi-player game are admirable but futile. What's the point in arguing with someone who tries to be an armchair general with zero field experience?
@kodial, the things you're saying might sound nice in theory, but in practice... well, they kinda don't work like that. At all. Stop it already.


Yeah right. Stop it already and think about how to make the bubble in the Dreamreaver's arm can be noticeable in battlefield.

PS: Just notice in the artwork there seems like missing part in Dreamreaver's right leg.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 21, 2011 02:00 PM

Good grief people this is hugely offtopic.. Let's leave this discussion for anothe heroes board if you don't mind. But since it was brought up one more thing..

Quote:
@ Elvin - cheaters get branded is really cute hypothetically speaking, but when u spend 2 hrs playing someone and then discover an army of 300 dragons standing against your 20.. well that kinda kills the fun, when that happens more than once... u pretty much give up on online game coz it feels like a waste...

Nah, you contact the toh administrator and get the points as well as the cheater in deep waters. Simple things really. Remember that while not quite a network of buddies we more or less know who is active there and what maps are being played and more importantly what is possible to do in these maps. You get the idea.
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Have you ever tried blind fold archery? You don't know what you're missing!

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